muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 It's a long read, but well worth it. "Gamers to the End" by Rick Reilly I'm going to tell you about five young Americans at the peak of their athletic lives. Your job is to guess how all five lives came together in the past month. One. As usual Elizabeth Loncki is acting very unladylike, just the way she likes it. It's 2001, she's 18 and she's challenging her dad to a push-up contest. He just did 50, but now Elizabeth is hitting 51. He could've done 100, and she would've done 101. That's how she is. A 5' 5" Energizer Bunny, she's the furnace that heats the volleyball team at Padua Academy in Wilmington, Del. She's the darling of the weight room wherever she works out, spotting guys twice her size. She also reads to shut-ins and runs errands for seniors. And seems like twice a week, she'll get up early so she can get balloons for somebody at school. Just don't try calling her "sweet." Two. Brian (Cap'n) Freeman is about to become one of the best in the world at something he never thought he'd even try - bobsledding. A burly brakeman from the virtually snowless town of Temecula, Calif., Freeman digs in, grunts and pushes the U.S. to a bronze medal at the 2002 America's Cup in Lake Placid, N.Y. But Freeman isn't just the piston for his sled team, he's also the soul of it - willing to push for drivers other than his own, just to give them a chance to develop with a few more runs. "A total team guy," says Steven Holcomb, the current World Cup bobsled points leader. "I wouldn't be where I am today without Brian." Three. If you'd been there when Shawn Falter was a toddler, with those massive braces on both legs, you wouldn't beleve what you're seeing now, as the senior leads his 1998-99 Homer (N.Y.) High basketball team. No longer pigeon-toed, he's blocking shots, rbounding like a man on a caffeine drip, scoring when it's needed and setting up teammates the rest of the time. That's nothing. You should see him on the football field, scoring TDs at tight end and trying to decapitate receivres at safety. And all while being skinnier than a one-iron. "All heart," marvels Jeff Tabel, who was his hoops coach. "Born to lead." Four. Luis Castillo isn't just a good wrestler, he's the captain of the 2003-04 team at Mattawan (Mich.) High. Wait! He's not just the captain, he's the winner of the team's leadership award. And wrestling is only where it starts. He's a break-dancing, bungee-jumping, joke-telling machine in a crew cut. "The all-American kid," the grown-ups call him. And it makes you wonder: How many people know he was born in Mexico? Five. It's 2000, and 17-year-old Jason Corbett takes his mark at the ancient Panathenaic Stadium in Athens. The timer is redy and - bang! - Corbett's off. Of course, there's no official time for his run because there's nobody in the stands and it's his buddy holding the watch. He's not in a track meet, he's on a trip with some Casper, Wyo., high school classmates. But, hey, that's not going to stop Corbett from running or having a good time. Nothing stops Corbett. He swallows life whole - track, snowboarding, fly-fishing and hunting. The kid has all the warning signs of a thrillaholic and loves anything to do with the outdoors. Maybe that's why he ended up in the only place big enough form him: Alaska. So what do these five athletes have in common? They were all killed in Iraq during a two-week period in January. Air Force Senior Airman Loncki, 23, was killed by a car bomb near Al-Mahmudiyah. Army Captain Freeman, 31, was killed by insurgents disguised as American soldiers in Karbala. Army Private First Class Falter, 25, died as a result of that same ambush. Marine Lance Corporal Castillo, 20, died from wounds suffered while on patrol in Al Anbar province. Army Specialist Corbett, 23, died of injuries from small-arms fire suffered while on patrol in Karmah. Five athletes. Five futures. All gone. Five of 84 Americans killed from New Year's Day through Sunday. Five of 3,084 Americans killed since the war began. Athletes love teams, and when they run out of sports teams they sometimes join bigger teams, ones with Humvees for huddles and tombstones for trophies and coaches they've never met sending them into a **** they never imagined. And they throw their whole selves into it anyway, because they are brave and disciplined and will chew through concrete to win the game. But what if the game can't be won? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) Good read until the last sentence.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) Definitely inspiring, and certainly tragic, as are all deaths in a time of war. Something else we need to keep in perspective is the U.S. death toll in this conflict as compared to previous wars. Iraq 3,000 Vietnam 50,000 Korea 35,000 WWII 300,000 WWI 55,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] Something else we need to keep in perspective is the U.S. death toll in this conflict as compared to previous wars. Iraq 3,000 Vietnam 50,000 Korea 35,000 WWII 300,000 WWI 55,000 [/ QUOTE ] I'm sure this comforts their parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] Definitely inspiring, and certainly tragic, as are all deaths in a time of war. Something else we need to keep in perspective is the U.S. death toll in this conflict as compared to previous wars. Iraq 3,000 Vietnam 50,000 Korea 35,000 WWII 300,000 WWI 55,000 [/ QUOTE ] Twin Towers 3,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] I'm sure this comforts their parents. [/ QUOTE ] As I said "...tragic, as are all deaths in a time of war." One other point of perspective. We have an all volunteer force. Nobody has been drafted, conscripted, or gathered up by a press gang (look it up if you don't know what that is) and forced into combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) Saddam Hussein didn't fly planes into the Twin Towers Strut...I fail to see the coorelation Anyway...what kind of logic is that? "Well, 3,000 people were killed in the 9/11...might as well up the body count in an unwinnable war!" I realize these brave men and women volunteer for this Texan. But does that mean that the sacrifice of their lives in vain is necessary? Also, I'm also pretty sure none of the soliders over there have Daddy's trust fund waiting for them when they get back. Most of them use the Armed Forces for a stepping stone to build their future. They go in, knowing full well that they may be asked to die for their country, and they sign up for it. If their deaths serve a higher purpose, as they did during World War II, I would feel better (although still somber) about it. Here's one of the better guy's I used to know. He left he behind a young wife and two young children. http://www.wkyc.com/news/rss_article.aspx?ref=RSS&storyid=53365 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) Sounds like the guys in your post may have had a bright future before them BEFORE they even enlisted in the military. Like Texan said, NOONE has been drafted, the military is an ALL VOLUNTEER force. I'm sorry, but crappy posts like this that appear to cast a soldiers death in a negative light do not sit well with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) Are we to be the "Paper Tiger" that Ossam Bin Ladin makes us out to be? No death should ever be taken lightly and the 3,000 that have given their lives will never be forgotten. This is a war that must be faught and must be won. I think the massses here in the US are blind to the truth that this is a Holy war being waged. Our enemy will not give up regardless of where it is being faught untill they have no way to fight or they are dead. As I have said before, as long as we are over there, that's where the fight will be. I am very parial to going to the mall without seeing soldiers with M15's. If we leave Iraq befor this is won we will be fighting it here. When the war is over there they are killing our soldiers and their own people. From where I'm sitting that sounds a lot better then them killing us and our soldiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] But what if the game can't be won? [/ QUOTE ] Then you keep playing so you don't lose. The minute we stop playing, we lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] Sounds like the guys in your post may have had a bright future before them BEFORE they even enlisted in the military. Like Texan said, NOONE has been drafted, the military is an ALL VOLUNTEER force. I'm sorry, but crappy posts like this that appear to cast a soldiers death in a negative light do not sit well with me. [/ QUOTE ] I dont see where this has anything to do with the soilders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Sounds like the guys in your post may have had a bright future before them BEFORE they even enlisted in the military. Like Texan said, NOONE has been drafted, the military is an ALL VOLUNTEER force. I'm sorry, but crappy posts like this that appear to cast a soldiers death in a negative light do not sit well with me. [/ QUOTE ] I dont see where this has anything to do with the soilders. [/ QUOTE ] Read muggs' reply above mine......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] Saddam Hussein didn't fly planes into the Twin Towers Strut...I fail to see the coorelation [/ QUOTE ] Nope. He didn't. Al Qaeda did. No matter what CNN, PMSNBC and the liberals tell you, there was a connection ( a big one) between the two. But, as far as I'm concerned, the ousting of Hussein was just a bonus in the war on terror (not to mention the greatest humainitarian move in decades). As long as we are in Iraq, we make that the low spot to which the terrorists will flow into in order to attempt the perpetuation of their sickness. When they flow in......we kill them. We leave..........the low spot leaves. Anyone who thinks a surrender & retreat in Iraq means the scum won't follow us back to our own soil is clearly smoking something. We can fight them there or we can fight them here. Either way.....we will have to fight them. 9/11 ought to remind us all that it sucks to have to fight them here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) foot in mouth i was looking a little higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) Preach on Strut10....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Saddam Hussein didn't fly planes into the Twin Towers Strut...I fail to see the coorelation [/ QUOTE ] Nope. He didn't. Al Qaeda did. No matter what CNN, PMSNBC and the liberals tell you, there was a connection ( a big one) between the two. But, as far as I'm concerned, the ousting of Hussein was just a bonus in the war on terror (not to mention the greatest humainitarian move in decades). As long as we are in Iraq, we make that the low spot to which the terrorists will flow into in order to attempt the perpetuation of their sickness. When they flow in......we kill them. We leave..........the low spot leaves. Anyone who thinks a surrender & retreat in Iraq means the scum won't follow us back to our own soil is clearly smoking something. We can fight them there or we can fight them here. Either way.....we will have to fight them. 9/11 ought to remind us all that it sucks to have to fight them here. [/ QUOTE ] The idiots have been blowing themselves up for 200 years, when did it start coming here? right about the time we started going there. On a side note Smoking somthing huh? you get pretty pointed with your threats strut, or accusations.(i was guilty as any for awhile) Thats one of reasons i stopped coming in here (i doubt i was missed much) but I dont see where Eric has shown anything but class with you. Whats the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) Aaron, when someone has nothing to support their arguement except pure speculation and whatever else they've been spoonfed...some of them result to personal attacks...in some rare cases, personal threats. You just have to consider the source. Anyway, I'm still waiting for someone to make a legititmate arguement as to what we're accomplishing over there. Still haven't seen anything close, guess the task is to large. Gator, you should go back and re-read everything a few more times. How this post, or any of my comments are putting any soliders death in a negative light is beyond me. Perception is in the eye of the beholder my friend. It's easy for people to sit back and say this war is a good thing when its not effecting their lives personally. How anyone can sit back and stare at a boobtube, watching these kids die from a safe distance and then say this war is a good thing is being hypocritical is you ask me. Maybe once it hits home you'll feel different...I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] On a side note Smoking somthing huh? you get pretty pointed with your threats strut, or accusations.(i was guilty as any for awhile) Thats one of reasons i stopped coming in here (i doubt i was missed much) but I dont see where Eric has shown anything but class with you. Whats the point? [/ QUOTE ] "Smoking something"........... as in "delusional". No accusation or reference to Muggs' choice of recreational activities. Kinda like "man crush". I know Muggs wasn't referring to my sexual preference just because I support Bush on the war. Right Muggs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] Anyway, I'm still waiting for someone to make a legititmate arguement as to what we're accomplishing over there. [/ QUOTE ] We've ended mass genocide by a dictator. Does that count?? Probably not, coming from a conservative source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] But what if the game can't be won? [/ QUOTE ] I think that is the comment that is questionable to some of us. A comment saying our soldiers being unable to do something is insulting at best to me. If anything they are not being allowed to do what is necessary. As far as examples: Look at France and the foothold the Muslems have on them. If they don't pull their heads out of the sand they will be subject to the same laws that govern the middle east befor they ever see it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] I know Muggs wasn't referring to my sexual preference just because I support Bush on the war. Right Muggs? [/ QUOTE ] Nope. I was referring more towards your blind love and support for anything you feel as being either Republican or Conservative. Besides, that statement was REaction, not action. Comparing someone who actually has enough brains to question "why?" shouldn't be compared to Fonda. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Anyway, I'm still waiting for someone to make a legititmate arguement as to what we're accomplishing over there. [/ QUOTE ] We've ended mass genocide by a dictator. Does that count?? Probably not, coming from a conservative source. [/ QUOTE ] Oh yeah, I forgot Bush's main concern was those poor Iraqi people. You ever drive through Philly Sturt? Who's helping those people...looks worse than most thrid-world countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) LOL. Kind of humorous to me to step back and watch Eric getting into it with someone else for a change. Aaron, you have missed some interesting posts in this room in your time away. [ QUOTE ] I realize these brave men and women volunteer for this Texan. But does that mean that the sacrifice of their lives in vain is necessary? [/ QUOTE ] Personally I do not think that these men and women died in vain. Unfortunately though that is what the liberal leadership in this country is striving to make the public believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) During World War II, many more lives were lost. But those lives help to serve a greater good. I solid victory. Something that was clear, concise, and not speculation. I honestly don't see this campaign accomplishing anything...just like Vietnam. Fathers, mothers, daughters, sons, husbands, wives, and friends are losing their lives over there everyday. They're fighting a faceless enemy. There's no way to fight remote car bombs, suicide bombers dressed like everyday citizens, or IED's. The only thing worse then losing an American, is losing them in vain. I'm afraid this is exactly what's happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: some perspective (good read) [ QUOTE ] The only thing worse then losing an American, is losing them in vain. I'm afraid this is exactly what's happening. [/ QUOTE ] So do you really think this thing is going to end if we pull out? I understand your point but don't agree with it. I think the second we pull out before they give up we will see them in our cities streets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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