Jeramie Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 There have been some debates on here about this. I understand their need to hunt places such as this. Success is the biggest part of the hunt. Ive seen several videos were the hunter lost out to a smart buck but in reality they wouldn't sale many tapes/ DVDs if they were skunked constantly. I agree with that school of thought though. I would love to see some quality video of hunters taking real game such as 80lb does and such or even scraggly horned bucks on over pressured property. That doesn't change the need for the payed hunters to score. If they aren't having success and in a big way then they cease to exist. Scouting is also another problem. How many shows does RT run a month? If they had to take the dedicated time to scout, as we do, then they would have 1/10th the footage they have to produce. again, I don't disagree with you but they have to do what they have to do..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanH Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches They are hunters! But Not the same as us! They are huntin for the love of it, and they just got lucky and happen to get paid to do it! Its there job! I disagree with you also! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches I'm not going to spend money on DVD's that are all small deer. Realtree's hunts are all 100% fair chase. How much more fair can it get? I don't see a problem hunting with outfitters. It's just like having a buddy say he's got a great spot picked out and you go hunt it. What is the difference? It's all fair chase, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches As far as i am concerned the deer aren't fenced in and it is fair chase. It would be one thing if they lied about it, but they tell you they are hunting on whatever ranch. It is nice to see public land hunts, but it is also great to see hunts that show so many great looking free ranging deer. As far as that giving hunters a bad name...how? They are hunting a large chunk of land manages for a healthy population of free ranging deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches I know where your coming from also. Realtree is a business. Most people pay to see the big deer the guys at Realtree shoot, not the hunters. I am sure the guys and gals at Realtree have hunted public land before they got this dream job that anyone of us would love to have. I too have been curious as to how well they would do if they were on there own on heavily hunted public land. I am willing to bet that once the got there feet wet in a spot, they would fare better than the average weekend warrior for sure. One of my favorite videos is Bowhunting Maine Whitetails. All public Maine land...No giant deer taken. Just your average Maine deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James7xChamp3 Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches [ QUOTE ] I'm not going to spend money on DVD's that are all small deer. Realtree's hunts are all 100% fair chase. How much more fair can it get? I don't see a problem hunting with outfitters. It's just like having a buddy say he's got a great spot picked out and you go hunt it. What is the difference? It's all fair chase, right? [/ QUOTE ] Exactly! This forum would not be here for this discussion if Bill Jordan tried selling videos of him and his cousin hunting public land around Georgia or wherever he's from. He's made a successful business doing something he loves along with David, Michael and the rest of them. Don't let that fool you into thinking they do not know how to hunt.....they do! They have been blessed, and good for them! They have outfitters who show them exactly where to hunt and they also hunt places where they scout and set up their own stands and call the shots just like we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need2hunt Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches The Realtree people dont have anything they need to prove to me as far as if they are "real" hunters. I think they can hold there own pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billygoat Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches I agree... they still have to get those deer in range, get drawn, and make a clean kill... I do not care where you are and how much hunting pressure you have, that is a chanllenge. Also, bear in mind RT is a business, and they are in the business of marketing. (period). And, in my oppinion, they have done it better than ANY other textile/ clothing/ pattern producer out their. They have royalties coming in from Air freshners (w/ their print) for goodness sake. You cannot walk into a store w/o seeing clothing, guns, bows, knives, hats, accessories, covered w/ their patterns... so why would they skimp on the deer they hunt. They need deer that are marketable... it kind of like be seeing a beer commercial a fat ugly girl (no offense to anyone, intended), it is only a comparison. Companies market good looking women because it sells, just like B.J. markets big deer because they sell. People want to see great deer... B.J. realized that early on... besides that, you can't tell me if he called you up and offered you the chance to go on that hunt, that you wouldn't take it. Oh yes, we all came to the RT forum... how was that so. I cannot help but think it was due to one of those videos or some other marketing tool of B.J (but, maybe I'm wrong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches As long as these hunts keep people interested in hunting and willing to go and try to get a big buck or any deer, what is wrong with that? We need all the help we can get to get people to buy license to fish and hunt! I have never seen any video that is a canned hunt! Just because they pick some great spots to go, that doesn't mean they don't strke out sometimes! I would like to know how many hours they spend trying to get all the video's made!! I bet it is a lot of time!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches [ QUOTE ] I don't see how hunting free-range ranch "land" is any different from public "land". The deer have the freedom to come and go. Bottom Line! [/ QUOTE ] When I see the term public land I automatically assume it is just that. Public land. Is the land around the King Ranch open to the public? Probably not. If it was, the deer on the King Ranch would not be near the calibre they are. I also assume there is some sort of bait/feed on the King Ranch or whatever deer farm. That helps alot also. There is a -huge- difference between free range deer hunting on posted lands and public land deer hunting. All that said. Would I like to get paid to kill a big buck there? Your freaking right I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches Geesh....I thought I was the only one that could get a post all heated up...and in a frenzy..LOL All I know is I wouldn't want to try and out hunt any one of the Realtree team members, High fenced or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches I understand what your trying to say...but you don't understand the buisness. First, they hunt alot of places and don't kill anything. Second, we buy the video's to see "big" bucks killed, granted it doesn't have to be a monster all the time, but big bone sells video's. Third, to get good footage every year...they don't have the time we do to do all the scouting. Lastly, you have to understand the legallity of hunting public land. Most (if not all) of the places they hunt have insurance if someone gets hurt. There are just too many risks involved with Jordan's insurance...they need to be safe. You and I understand how hard it is to harvest a deer (let along a big buck) on public land, correct? Now imagine trying to get 2 sometime 3 guys with climbers (would be hard to use ladder or fixed stands) and all the camera gear into the woods. Plus the deer that are pressured...it would be alot harder to get into range if your worring about 2 or 3 guy's scent and or movement. No one wants to buy/watch a video with little or no kills on it. This is their living...it takes hours sometimes days of filming to make a 1/2 show. I just don't think there is enough time in a hunting season to do what they do, plus hunt state/public land. There are some shows on the outdoor channel that do state/public land hunts...but they aren't producing the video's and shows that Realtree is. If they were asked...I bet they'd love to do the kind of hunting you and I do...just not enough time in a year to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches I wouldn't go to a movie theater if the movie had all ugly women actresses. Hollywoods knows that. I guess RT says that too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KSNimrod Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches g2, It sounds like maybe you need to move to Kansas. I've had opportunities at Pope & Young bucks each year I've hunted with my bow. Some might say it doesn't count because the land wasn't public. Well, 95% of the land here is public. Should I only hunt there? Wait a minute, some of those hunts were out of stands that my uncle set. I guess those don't count either? I'm not trying to mouth off to you here. I just want to know: If Bill Jordan came to your camp and shot a "better" deer than you, would that make him a better hunter? If the biggest deer in your woods was 90" and you shot it, would you feel like a failure? Maybe I'm misreading your post, but it sounds like sour grapes to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricfirefighter Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches i love to hunt would i go on a ranch hunt if i could afford it dont know i like to know when i get a deer it due to my abilities not due to someone else that can tell you at 9:30 every morning this big deer comes by this stand he did the work then i just shot this said i get skunked to often to make a video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches If you hunt Texas, you almost have to hunt private land. There's very little public land (as a percentage of acreage) available, although that's slowly changing. Now what in the world makes you think its easier to hunt low fenced private land (or high fenced for that matter, but that's another topic)? The deer can come and go as they please, same as on public land. No guarantees they'll be there tomorrow. Especially the better quality deer. I thought I had a 20 inch 10 point patterened pretty tight. Saw him leaving a wheat field three different mornings. Passed on him so that a kid I was bringing out could get a shot and sure enough, he just disappeared. Nobody shot him, he just vanished. I've hunted that same location 8 or 10 more times and haven't seen him again. Saw another, bigger 10 point only once - should have shot him but I passed. Some bucks I've seen 8 or 10 different times, but almost every time I go I'll see a new one for the first time. Its just not as easy as you might think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Realtree Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches A very good post and well justified. It is true that our staff has the opportunity to hunt at some of the best areas in North America every year. Because of the nature of our business, we are afforded the opportunity to hunt in some awesome locations throughout North America. They are not farms but well managed ranches, farms or property (with free ranging animals). There are many reasons why we don't hunt public land (unless we draw a tag out west (which we do from time to time). First and foremost is liability, which is far too complicated to explain in this forum but, has been explained to us in complete detail by our attorneys. Secondly, due to the overwhelming response to the hunts we have captured on tape and the size and rarity of the bucks we do take, our TV Show and Video's ongoing reputation and survival rely heavily on these hunts. As far as the odds are concerned, our staff begins big game hunting in late August and continues through the end of January for an average of 20 weeks on the road (They are home literally two or three weeks during this period which is a great sacrifice when you consider family and other responsibilities). Of the 140 days in the field, roughly 75% of these are spent scouting and setting up stands. It is true that at some locations guides are an important part of this, but the staff is adamant about working extremely hard in the field and finding the biggest and best bucks available in that area. A large percentage of the deer are taken with bows which adds to the difficulty. It is also noteworthy to point out that Bill hunted 5 to 6 days a week last year from the end of August until the middle of January and took only three bucks. Put yourself in the woods that much and you would probably match those results. We film hundreds of hunts each year over a 9 month period (Including Turkey Season), with the number of successful hunts numbering 50 or less. When you look at these odds, they are not much better than an average hunting club (if they were to hunt as often). It takes this much time and footage to produce 13 TV Shows, 2 Monster Bucks, All Stars Of Spring and additional titles every year. Products extremely important to our company and it's success. We hope these points help explain our position. We are in no way trying to deny our fortunes in being able to hunt where we do. We just want you to see that it's not as simple as the edited TV shows or videos seem to make it. We welcome your feedback and sincerely appreciate your time spent at our site. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches [ QUOTE ] First and foremost is liability, which is far too complicated to explain in this forum but, has been explained to us in complete detail by our attorneys. [/ QUOTE ] I would like to hear a little about this. They all must have workmans comp insurance right? If Someone falls out of a stand and gets hurt wouldn't that be the same as me sticking my hand in an acid deck? I do not understand what the difference would be if it was on public or private land. When I go to bear camp I have to file a liability form. It states if I get hurt when I am on stand without my guide present he is not at fault. Do the Realtree people have to do this also? I would think so. I also have my own health insurance, which covers me anyways. I would think all the hunters at realtree have the same. I do not know what they all make in a year, but I know it is enought to pay for insurance if it is not provided thru there employer. I work for a billion doller plus company and have great insurance, and am very fortunate to. I would think they all would have as good or better than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetailkiller Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches your entitled to your opinion!!!!!!! i don't agree with your opinion but that's ok!!!!!!!!! as long as they are setting up a stand or a blind, and they are not fenced in.. or shooting out the bathroom window...i'm ok with it!! that is just my opinion.... nobody has to agree with me either!!!!!!! that is one of the many things that makes america the best country in the world!!!!!!! some people do things that i don't agree with,, and it's not my problem, i'm not the person who will judge them..... but i know who will ... i will teach my son and daughter what i believe is ethical hunting....not what someone else calls ethical!!!!!!! and oh MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washi Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches [ QUOTE ] Of the 140 days in the field, roughly 75% of these are spent scouting and setting up stands. [/ QUOTE ] I think that one sentence says a lot. I don't spend 75% of my time in the field scouting and setting up blinds even though I do a lot more than I used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches q2- I think I agree with some of what you're getting at. I too feel a bit disconnected with a lot of the hunting shows. I find it very difficult to relate to a hunting show that shows a guy with a rifle, sitting high in a box blind, picking and choosing which monster buck he wants to shoot. That in no way relates to anything near what my actual hunting experiences or conditions consist of. I like to see huge bucks as much as anyone, but after the 20th show that basically depicts the exact same thing, it does get a bit repetitive and downright boring. I understand why these kinds of programs and hunting locations are chosen, but it really does eventually get to be "old hat". I'll bet there are a lot of amateurs out there that are filming their hunts that would just love to have them stirred in with the normal staff hunts on TV. I'll bet they would do it for free too. There's an awful lot of guys out there that have some pretty good video equipment and are starting to experiment with taping their hunts. Short segments of these kinds of amateur hunts would be a definite plus on the ho-hum shows that are currently being produced. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtBowhunter Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches q2, did you read Scott's response to your post? If you watch the videos you'll see these guys glassing deer from high vantage points and then they hang their own stands. True they are hunting ranches, but they're are all "Fair Chase" hunts in which they do their own scouting. How is that any different from you or I scouting land and hunting it. They're just fortunate enough to hunt some of the best land available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Re: ATTN: RT Hunting on ranches I just wish that I could hunt five to six days a week from August to December. As for the hunting on a ranch, the only time I have a problem with that is when someone is in a box blind, that is there year round, watching over a feeder, that is there and dispensing food year round, or looking down road along which food has been scattered about all year long. I could put out feed and shoot a big buck out of my bedroom window every year doing that, but it ain't hunting in my mind and I could take no pleasure from it. The only thing about the RT shows/videos that sometimes irks me is the iffy shots taken and the sometimes poor shot placement. Not that things do not happen, but I think they should admit, on camera, that the shot/placement was less then perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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