AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

[wtnhunt]

OK, going to try and find an AR and I am admittedly pretty well ignorant as to exactly what to look for, so I am looking for enlightenment here from some of you guys who have a great wealth of knowledge about these guns. I dont want to spend too terribly much, but at the same time dont want to go too cheap and regret it later. Saw that gander mountain is running a bushmaster A3M4 for like $999 in an ad. Really would like to keep my total under $900 if at all possible where ever I end up getting the gun from.

The local gun shop will be my first stop, but I am doubtfull I will buy anything from him. I mean he sells used guns in fair condition for more than the new price you can get those same guns from wal mart for, and honestly the guy who owns the shop is really kind of a jerk. There is an outdoor store about 30 miles away, will also check there.

Have been to the atlantic arms site, and the dpms prices seem farily reasonable. In brands, how much difference will there be in the names, are the dpms guns comparable to the bushmasters and others. This will not be a match gun, will just be for target shooting likely out to 200 maybe a little farther, and some varmint hunting where shots will likely most often be under 200 yards.

[huntinguide]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

I wouldnt mind finding one as well wtnhunt, ill be checkin in for info too.

[Adjam5]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

I was at a gun show here in down state NY yesterday and I too was looking at some AR's. The completed ones were in the $8-900 range 5.56cal, 1:9 twist.

5.56bbls can shoot .223, but .223 bbls cannot shoot 5.56, the shoulder is different. The 5.56 is the universal chambering to be able to shoot commercial and military ammo. If you like a tighter chambering in the AR you get a .223 bbl.

There was one dealer who had 2 complete lower recievers, one a Rock River Arms(DEA issue) and a Stag Arms(famous for lefty uppers). Both for $249+tax.

AR consist of primarily 2 parts. The upper and the lower. The lower is basically as far ATFE is concerned is "the gun". You could choose quite a few calibers with the upper you choose. The uppers can be bought thru the mail, online, anyway you choose without filling out govt paper work. The lower still needs a 4473 to be filled out. I was considering getting a .204 ruger upper.

The 1:9 twist rate is perfect for military ball and the mid range weight bullets. The 1:8 is a better set up for the heavier bullets that you could hunt with. I mean you could hunt with the 1:9 too, but to match bullets to twist rates, that is whats reccomended. It could be a deer rifle with the 75 or 82 gr bullets.

Shop the uppers online and see what it could cost to snap together and push a pin in and whip up yer own AR. Very simple assembly with complete uppers and lowers.

Gander Mtn has the same special going on over here, the A3M4 for $999.

I think I can get a new upper somewhere in the $3-500 range, maybe more for special calibers.

$435 for a .204 ruger at Model1 sales.

Whipping your own up could save you a few$.

If these lowers were going for $249 here, I'm sure you could do much better outside this communist state I reside

Are you gonna scope it? Then you'll need a flat top upper to mount it to. It comes with a machined rail for scope mounting. This gun can be super accurate and a real tack driver. The ARs they are making now will rival and exceed accuracy of most bolt guns.

These are great sources of info.

www.lesbaer.com

www.laruetactical.com

www.wilsoncombat.com

www.lewismachine.net

www.model1sales.com

www.AR15.com

[ZooBear]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

I would check out AR15.com they have everything you will ever need to know about ARs. You can spend about whatever you want and to some extent you get what you pay for. Les Baer makes a nice AR but so does Bushmaster. The Smith & Wessons are a nice gun for the money as are Rock Rivers. I have never owned a DMPS but the prices look good.

Good luck and welcome to the dark side! LOL

[wtnhunt]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

Thanks for the advice here. And yes I will be scoping the gun, whichever I go with so it will be a flat top upper.

[Adjam5]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

[ QUOTE ]

Good luck and welcome to the dark side! LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said

[wtnhunt]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

Will the 5.56 shoot the .223 ammo as accurately?

[Adjam5]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

I have pondered this myself...

The 5.56 NATO chamber is designed around function in war conditions. Where case extraction is a life and death situation. I don't think it makes that much of a difference, because the bbl caliber is the same, but there must be some sloppiness of the case not being exactly centered upon ignition in the chamber. Some instances of throat erosion might take place.

I'd like to hear what AJ has to say on this.

I picked up some Black Hills .223 50gr V-Max loads at Gander Mtn. I will be putting them thru the 1:9 AR I have. I will report back with details. I am also waiting on 5rd AR mags to be able to hunt with.

Check your regs, you might need one too.

This is where I got mine.

www.mwgco.com

[smallmunster]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

Ar15.com contains a wealth of info on their boards, too much in fact. It can be tough to sort through it all. I spent many hours on there going over things before I decided on my Rock River.

If you can find a FFL dealer that will do reasonable transfers, buying on off the net will probably be cheapest. http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp is a tool where you can search for dealers near you. After I bought mine locally I found a guy nearby that would have done a transfer for $15 and I could have saved probably $100 over the net. Check out the "equipment exchange" on ar15.com, they have the best prices I have seen. Pete at Legal Transfers, LLC (www.ar15sales.com) usually has some of the best prices on there along with a few others.

[WaCoyote]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

What to look for???

Hmmmm. That list is endless.

I bought a Custom job from Dedicated Technologies in MN. His base price is around $900.00. With upgrades price increases. Also Caliber matters too.

He makes;

.204

.223

.260

.243

.308

300WSM I think

WSSM's

I didn't list all of them.

I bought a Flat top .223, Fluted, Stainless, Compensated, 20" bbl., 1-10 twist, White Oak handguards w/stud, Tuned 2 stage Rock River Trigger. Took about 3 weeks from order date to arrival date.

Both loads I've shot were well below 1" groups.

So I'd have to recommend D-Tech. Mike the owner builds and tests everything. No employees. I would at least call him. He can steer you right. There are a lot of things to consider, it's use, it's weight, it's cal. Accessories. It's just endless.

If you want info PM me.

Here's a pic. I can't help myself. Mine was $1250.00ish. Not bad for a custom, 1/2" group AR.

[AJ]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

Welcome to the world of the black guns. They are super fun to shoot. You can get them more accurate than most bolt varmint guns if you want to spend a bit more. There are many custom makers that will have accuracy guarantees. Like the guns Smallmunster and I purchased, they have a 1" group at 100 yard guarantee. Some of the varmint flat tops from Les Baer are guaranteed at 1/2" groups at 100 yards. My JP Enterprises gun will shoot sub 1/2" groups at 100 yards with my reloads. These guns shoot!

I personally would not buy a 5.56mm chambered gun. Actually, I prefer tight chambers. I have no intentions of getting into fire fights so I could care less if it has an extraction problem after firing a few clips at a fast pace. I will not abuse a barrel like that. I am paying good money for a tqrget grade gun, why fry the throat making noise? If you want to spray and pray, get a 10/22 with a 50 round magazine or an AK47/SKS. I am into precision accuracy and the flattop AR guns will do the job.

The AR15 is the smal block chevy of the rifle world. You can get all kinds of stuff for it from different buttstocks (telescopic, laminated wood, walnut, skeletonized, adjustable, etc) to hand grips of different designs, lights, lasers, red dots, etc. It's like a 10/22 on steroids.

I highly recommend getting USGI magazines. There are various companies that make them but the govt spec mags are the best. The 20 round mags are the best off of the bench. The 30 round and larger round magazines stick down too far for bench work.

They are available in a lot of different options. Any case using the .223 cartridge will work fine for the AR15. That includes the .17 Rem, .204 Ruger, .222 Rem, .223 Rem, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .458 SOCOM, .500 Beowolf, .300 Whisper and others. There are some custom makers getting into larger cartridges on the AR platform also.

[Adjam5]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

That .50 Beowolf is some caliber. I read it was developed for the Coast Guard to be able to sink small water crafts and boats. The .223 rounds were bouncing off fiberglass boats, so they necked up a .223 round and made it a .50 cal. and fit it into the AR size receiver and uses the same AR mags too since its based on the rim of .223 case. The Beowolf has a rebated rim on the case, that was the only way they can neck it up to .50cal

I think its like a 300grain bullet and has the ballistics and knock down power of a 45-70!

This is a Alexander Arms product.

www.alexanderarms.com

AJ...Would a .50 Beowolf upper fit on a plain ole AR lower reciever? I mean, can one just change the uppers and WALAA! New gun? Or does it need to be in the AR-10(.308) platform?

[smallmunster]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

It looks like the .50 beowulf fits on the standard ar15 lower, at least thats what cabelas makes it sound like. If you want a different caliber I would look at the 6.5 grendel. I just read an article on it and it sounded pretty good. Good for long range if you are into that, ammo isn't cheap though. You could get both and have the beowulf and grendel set, just like the fable (I just watched that movie the other night)!

[wtnhunt]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

Thanks for all the great info here guys. So I will need to go with the .223. Thinking $900 will probably be pushing my limits. Dont think the wife will go for over $1000 but we will see.

[Adjam5]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

Good luck, report back with what you get, and don't forget to read AJ's post on how he scopes a gun and aligns the rings...Great info there.

Ahhh the dark side...so much fun here

[wtnhunt]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

A dealer here about 30 miles away has both colt and bushmaster AR's for around $1200, then add tax on top of that and I would be looking around $1400. You guys mentioned customs, the Les Baer are over $2000, that is not even an option. Think I am really leaning towards the rock river, looking close now at the A2 and A4 from atlantic and then just having it transferred here locally. $809 for the A2 rifle, $55 if I add the stainless barrel, then whatever I pay for the transfer fees.

Guess looking at the pics and specs, the A2 does not have a flat top upper, but the A4 does.

[WaCoyote]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

Here's D-Tech if you want to take a look. It would be worth the phone call.

http://www.dtechsuperstore.com

[wtnhunt]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

Thanks for that link, will give him a call or shoot him a message a little later this morning. Noticing the rock river varmint version of the A4 is $949, only $140 more than the $809 that the A2 and A4 standard models are listing for at atlantic arms, but the varmint model is guaranteed a 3/4 moa at 100 yards versus the 1 inch moa on the standard models. The varmint model also comes standard with a stainless barrel, looks like all the rock rivers come with a two stage match trigger. Is stepping up to the varmint model worth the extra money, maybe closer in performance to a custom?

Another question, they are calling the caliber a .223 wylde, that still shoots the standard .223 rem correct?

[smallmunster]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

From the Rock River Site:

"The .223 Wylde chamber was designed as a match chambering for semi-automatic rifles. It will accomodate both .223 Rem and 5.56mm NATO ammunition. It is relievd in the case body to aid in extraction and features a shorter throat for improved accuracy."

[wtnhunt]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

Thanks, really think at this point I am leaning towards the rock river varmint model from atlantic arms, really just a little more than I was planning on spending, but think I can swing it. The customs from d-tech are definitely another consideration, just not sure I want to spend that much more.

[WaCoyote]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

wtnhunt,

Got another link for you.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb...part=1&vc=1

This is on the Predator Masters Forum. It shows a bunch of D-Techs work. A lot of guys on PM buy D-Techs. Although the first pic is not my rifle it is pretty much identical to mine except the scope and scope mount.

Enjoy,, I guarantee this will get the juices flowing!!LOL!!

[robk]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

8 to 900 is a fair price for the ar line up. what to look for is what your wanting in the weapon itself. you can detachable handle with picinniy top for adding scope and rings and can attach the scope set up directly tot he handle. are you wanting it for tournament shooting or match shooting and are you wanting 223/5.56 pr 308 cal. do you want a standard 16 or you can get up to i believe a 20 to 22 inch barrel now. your trigger set up and such will all cost you more if you want a stainless barrel.

so many toys to add. i would stick with bushmaster and probably the smith and wesson. might want to also look at lancaster and see what you can find. they have some great american ak47's as well for sell

rob k

[wtnhunt]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

Thanks for all the suggestions here. I ended up ordering a rock river varmint model with a 20 inch barrel, cost was $859 and $21 for shipping, also ordered 2 30 rd usgi clips which were $16 each. Considering the price I found online at several sites and the same gun being listed on gunbrokers for over $1000 buy it now, think I did alright. It is on backorder though, might be 6-8 weeks before I get my hands on it. Considered a custom by d-tech, but the price on the varmint where I found it was right, and it is guaranteed to shoot 3/4 moa, already has the rock river national match two stage trigger, and has the wilson air gauged bull stainless barrel. Probably as close to a custom as I will get without buying a custom. Will be a bit heavy, but the weight really will not be an issue here.

Here is pic of what I ordered, thanks again for all the suggestions and information. When I get it here, will post some pics.

[Adjam5]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

NIIIICE! Good Luck with it!

I see that it is chambered in that .223 Wylde caliber. Is that the universal chamber to shoot 5.56 and .223? Is that caliber exclusive to Rock River, tahts the only manufacturer I see that offers that chambering.

I also picked up ANOTHER AR , from a guy at work who is getting divorced who needs cash. Actually one and a half of a AR. It was such a good deal,I could not pass it up. It is a Colt Sporter Match in .223 Remington with a extra Rock River M4(5.56, on the gun now) upper with rails on the forend. Uppers came complete with bolt carriers and all hardware.5 mags, the soft case and 700rds of ammo. I can't tell you what I paid, because I practically stole it. What a deal.

I am most likely going to get that RockRiver lower for $249, mate it to the M4 upper and put the Colt upper back on the Colt lower. Set one up for predators and the other for sport.

[AJ]

Re: AR, what to look for and how much is fair?

Very nice!

The Wylde chamber is slightly larger in diameter for easier extraction but has a shorter throat for better accuracy. It is harder on brass though.