Do you cross the fence - Part 2

[oldksnarc]

Sorry Buckee. Hate to stir the pot, but it’s been several days since I checked in so I missed the original thread before it locked.

First off - TreeStandBowHunter for President!!

Legalize and regulate marijuana?

Where does it stop? Several suggested (tongue in cheek - I hope) adding coke and meth.

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Doing so would make the prison population drop dramatically.

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Legalizing marijuana would not reduce the number of people in prison. Very, very few people are in prison for simply using or possessing marijuana. People are in prison for selling marijuana, or possessing marijuana with intent to sell.

As the director of a four county drug task force, I can say that we don’t target people simply using or possessing marijuana. We don’t have the resources. We target people who are selling marijuana and who are profiting from the weaknesses of others. Especially children.

Marijuana is a gateway drug in that most people who eventually try and, eventually become addicted to the “harder” drugs like coke, meth and heroin, tried marijuana first and then, thru the course of their use, went on to other drugs to get a better or higher high.

I say, with reservation, that I personally don’t have a problem with someone who, after work, goes home and smokes a doobie as a way to relax - not unlike the person that has a beer or drink after work. And then gets up the next day and goes back to work.

The only problem with that is when the user gets injured on the job because of his/her drug use and ends up driving up the cost of their employers health care or workmen’s comp insurance; which causes an increase in the cost of the service/product offered by the employer; which is passed on to the consumer and which increases the price I/we have to pay for that service or product. Additionally, work-related accidents drive up health and workman comp costs which I/we as taxpayers have to pick up or experience an increase in our taxes.

Additionally, as long as that person is providing for the welfare of their own family by making their rent/mortgage payments, putting clothes on their backs, feeding them, and providing for their health care - no harm done. But, when their drug use causes our taxes to go up to provide for their families because their income is spent on drugs then I/we should have a problem with their using any drug.

Every time an employed user enters rehab for their addiction health care costs for non-users goes up to offset the additonal burden on health care costs.

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We could tax it and make tons of money.

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Alcohol is legal and socially accepted. However, of all the taxes paid on alcohol very little is spent to fund alcohol treatment or enforcement. We have better ways of raising money than legalizing drug use.

Taxes that might be collected from legalized marijuana would in no way offset the cost of enforcing drug laws, imprisoning "unlicensed" dealers, or providing treatment for users.

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People could get safer stuff.

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Safer marijuana? Marijuana is marijuana. It either takes one a whole joint or a quarter joint to get the job done - depending on the quality. It’s a natural plant and, in and of itself, is very non-unsafe - other than distorting time and space (hallucinogenic) and the toxins which are similarly found in tobacco. The only “safer” marijuana would be the marijuana that doesn’t have Tetrahydrocannabinol - THC, or tar or nicotine. Then what's the point?

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I think the amount of people who would start that aren't doing it already would be negligible.

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Again, it’s a gateway drug. I, myself, never even saw marijuana until I went in the military. Today, fifth and sixth graders are using it on a regular (several times a week) basis. If it’s available they’re going to try it and, statistically, move on to the harder drugs which DO cause the problems discussed here.

Reduced cost to society? Drug use costs us more than we realize. Not counting the already mentioned additional taxes and health care costs required, legitimate businesses also suffer as a result of drug use because money spent on drugs is not being spent at the local grocery, hardware, or clothing store; not being spent for rent, at the local movie theater or restaurant, and so on.

Legalize it? No! If you want to use it go for it. As long as it’s use doesn’t raise my taxes or affect the local economy.

Will we win the war on drugs? No. But it is battles we have to continue to fight. We legalized alcohol and look at the cost to society. We don't legalize rape, robbery or murder - and those are what fills our prisons more than marijuana does. But, we continue to lose those wars.

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Re: Do you cross the fence - Part 2

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First off - TreeStandBowHunter for President!!

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I think I would be assasinated within my first 24 hours of presidencey . But I was serious about the prison population. Ok, so there are a few...a FEW...people on death row who did not do the crime. So, for the rest of the 99.999% of the death row population, kill them. Why hang on to them? They are wasting our money. They are treated better in prison than our troops are overseas. Why is that? For the rest of the prison population, take everything away from them except what they need to survive on and see how fewer people committ crimes.

It makes no sense to say that we legalize something so prison population is cut down. I guess we should legalize rape and murder then too? Is that how we correct something? Try this one on...imagine what would happen to crime if we cut off the privates of every man that raped a woman? Imagine if we executed people within 24 hours of being found guilty of pre-meditated murder...even the ones who play insane...actually we kill them faster so that they don't kill themselves first. What a great society we would have after this!

[wtnhunt]

Re: Do you cross the fence - Part 2

I gave my 2 cents worth in the initial thread. Honestly think the idea of legalizing any currently illegal substance is just plain ignorant. And yes I did say something to the effect of why stop with marijuana, why not legalize coke and meth while you are at it. That was pure sarcasm.

I am all for expedient processes and making strong examples of those offenders who are without a doubt guilty of the crimes they committed. Society is pretty crazy, I mean we protect people who kill others then want to kill themselves, WHY. Let them do it and get it over with, save us all the burden of dealing with them, but instead some pansy arse human rights idiots say that is not humane and they should be treated humanely. Pretty sick mentality really that our government protects the rights of those who take away the rights or lives of others.

And Mike, don't think you would be assassinated, think your knowledge of military, you would be well capable of coordinating your secret service team. I would vote for you.

[ParrotHead]

Re: Do you cross the fence - Part 2

I still want to know why the original thread was locked?

We were having a half-decent conversation about a hot topic in today’s world and all of a sudden you’re cut off because someone “might” have been offended or something “might” have been taken out of context? Give me a break here folks, it’s political content and by it’s own nature will become controversial at some point but that doesn’t mean we need to stop it.

Again, state your point and if you’re not willing to openly listen to a rebuttal then don’t read it, go to the next thread.

And if you start a conversation, I believe you have no right to end it. That’s equivalent to taking your ball and going home because you weren’t picked by the good team. Just because someone disagrees with you isn’t cause enough to quit and it surely isn’t cause to lock.

And as far as hijacking a thread – why not trying deleting those entries that try to hijack the thread next time? Just because someone steers in a different direction should mean the rest of us have to suffer. Moderating isn’t something that should be taken as lightly as it is around here. Some topics are heated by design, political and religious lead the pack when it comes to heated agreements and disagreements. And **** folks, we hadn’t even gotten to heated yet, it was just getting warm!

Course that just my opinion, I could be wrong…

[ParrotHead]

Re: Do you cross the fence - Part 2

So to not be accused of trying to hijack the thread, I will attempt to provide my opinions on legalizing the use of marijuana.

Personally, I’m not for it. I think it’s a bad idea but can see some of the arguments given as solid arguments. The war on drugs is costly, extremely costly to the tax paying communities and to date can we even begin to say we’re winning the war? No we can’t and I’m sure that given the judicial system as it is today, we’ll never win the war. But when you legalize something because you’re not willing to fix another problem than you’re admitting defeat and the end result is now you have 2 problems.

I believe the use of it reduces productivity in all aspects of your life. If you were to admit to using it then you’ll agree, you become very passive while in your state of euphoria and really accomplish nothing. Will this lead to a decline in overall life for yourself and those around? I believe it will and so what do you have now, people sitting around smoking their hemp and doing nothing. The result will probably be another addict on welfare that society has to maintain.

Also studies have shown that use of marijuana the more likely you are to use cocaine and heroin and become dependent on drugs. Once again we have addicts that have become completely dependant on other resources, a drain on society. And all this because it’s legal to use.

Medical use, I’m all for it. When trying to cope with a disease or worse, trying to cope with dying then I believe you have the right to be administered any drug that can or will help you cope or bring some comfort to you in the later stages of your life. But these drugs should be treated as drugs and dispensed as any other drug would be, through a doctors orders.

Past all these “facts” and “opinions” I’ll offer one more, one of say a more personal response. I’m a parent and I don’t want to see my child’s life possibly go down the drain because we allowed politians to legalize a mind altering drug because they wanted to collect more taxes.

Course that's just my opinion, but I think I'm right on this one...

[oldksnarc]

Re: Do you cross the fence - Part 2

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That was pure sarcasm.

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I knew it was.

"wtnhunt for vice president"

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Re: Do you cross the fence - Part 2

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I still want to know why the original thread was locked?

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I don't think it was locked because something inappropriate was said. I believe the author requested it to be locked. Something about a hijacked thread

[buckee]

Re: Do you cross the fence - Part 2

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I still want to know why the original thread was locked?

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It was requested by the author of the thread, and whenever the author of a thread requests their thread locked or deleted, it's my job to oblige.

I agree with Parrothead on this. Waving the white surrender flag is not winning a war..

What are the short-term effects of Marijuana use?

The short-term effects of marijuana use include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception (sights, sounds, time, touch); difficulty in thinking and problem solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate, anxiety, and panic attacks.

THC in marijuana is strongly absorbed by fatty tissues in various organs. Generally, traces of THC can be detected by standard urine testing methods several days after a smoking session. In heavy chronic users, traces can sometimes be detected for weeks after they have stopped using marijuana.

What are the long-term effects of Marijuana use?

People who smoke marijuana often have the same respiratory problems as cigarette smokers. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. They are also at greater risk of getting lung infections like pneumonia. Marijuana contains some of the same, and sometimes even more, of the cancer-causing chemicals found in cigarette smoke.

Effects of Heavy Marijuana Use on Learning and Social Behavior

Marijuana affects memory, judgment and perception. Learning and attention skills are impaired among people who use marijuana heavily. Longitudinal research on marijuana use among young people below college age indicates those who use marijuana have lower achievement than the non-users, more acceptance of deviant behavior, more delinquent behavior and aggression, greater rebelliousness, poorer relationships with parents, and more associations with delinquent and drug-using friends.

Effects on Pregnancy

Any drug of abuse can affect a mother’s health during Some studies have found that babies born to mothers who used marijuana during pregnancy were smaller than those born to mothers who did not use the drug. In general, smaller babies are more likely to develop health problems.

A nursing mother who uses marijuana passes some of the THC to the baby in her breast milk. Research indicates that the use of marijuana by a mother during the first month of breast-feeding can impair the infant’s motor development.

Addictive Potential

A drug is addicting if it causes compulsive, uncontrollable drug craving, seeking, and use, even in the face of negative health and social consequences.

While not everyone who uses marijuana becomes addicted, when a user begins to seek out and take the drug compulsively, that person is said to be dependent or addicted to the drug.

Some frequent, heavy users of marijuana develop a tolerance for it. Tolerance means that the user needs larger doses of the drug to get the same desired results that he or she used to get from smaller amounts.

So explain to me again why we need to legalize this drug, for recreational use ???