billygoat Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Well, I recognize I am a new forum member and that such a post might be poorly accepted by some, but I think this post is necessary. *** read very carefully, and try not to misconstrue the statements made, and please read your posts before you respond *** Over the past several weeks there have been some posts that left "much to the imagination", related to ethical hunting. There have been comments related to illegal acts, if you could... would you, and generally speaking some questionable behavior... In response, Moderators established a post, reflecting RT's stand on such acts... a post which has "stirred the pot", and raised the question of right, wrong, censorship, and many other human ethical and moral dilemmas. So here are my two scents (for you canucks that’s roughly .0175 after the exchange). As members of the RT forum we are here to share our passion of hunting and our passion for the outdoor experience. As hunters we have an obligation to uphold a higher standard than others in society. Why, because what we have is a privilege, and therefore we are responsible to uphold the ethical responsibilities that go along with the privilege. Ethics, in this post, is: a system of moral principles governing the appropriate conduct for an individual or group. I am of the opinion that as RT members we acknowledge the standard set by RT and agree to adhere to those standards, whether they match our personal convictions or not. America is experiencing a general decline in it’s standard of ethics and moral behavior. We see it in our government, on our TV’s, and indeed in our families. I promise you, if you could bring back great grandparents they would only express dismay over the decline of America’s integrity. As a group (hunters) we are obligated to uphold a higher standard, and for that reason, it is reasonable for Moderators to maintain a high standard of integrity throughout the forums… both in our hunting behavior and in our daily living. Do not misconstrue the previous statement… I am not saying that we should be policed and governed as children under an autocratic system. We are entitled to living our lives, but as members of this forum we are obligated to adhere to the legal standard, which our country has established… these are the laws that govern our daily living. We are very fortunate to have a platform like RT to voice our opinions and thoughts… and more importantly experience each others joys, heartaches, and trophies. Consider this every time you prepare to hit the “enter” button, or click your mouse to make a post. Whether it is right or wrong, every time we make a post, opinions are being formed about us. Each post we make is a direct reflection of the character to which we are. I do not know about any of you, but I prefer to be known as a hunter who appreciated the privilege of hunting, and more over a man who had the integrity to uphold the law and pass that tradition on to others. Happy Hunting, Merry Christmas, and May God Bless: Billygoat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Billygoat.....Welcome!!! You will fit in just fine!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanH Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America [ QUOTE ] Billygoat.....Welcome!!! You will fit in just fine!! [/ QUOTE ] You dang you he will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America very well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America [ QUOTE ] America is experiencing a general decline in it’s standard of ethics and moral behavior. We see it in our government, on our TV’s, and indeed in our families. I promise you, if you could bring back great grandparents they would only express dismay over the decline of America’s integrity [/ QUOTE ] generally agree, but there are some fallacies to some of your premises. the above quote for one. i could dig up plenty of "America's integrity in decline" stories, and many of them would date to the 1700 and 1800's. by definition, if there's good, there will be evil--always. until That Day at least. . until then, live your life to the best of your ability, fight ignorance and evil when you can and enjoy life. you never know when someone, or something will take it away. Peace brothers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeramie Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Great post goat! You summed up what every member should already have been thinking! You get a thumbs up on that one man...... [ QUOTE ] Whether it is right or wrong, every time we make a post, opinions are being formed about us. Each post we make is a direct reflection of the character to which we are. [/ QUOTE ] Boy you hit that nail on the head. Everyone knows I'm full of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Well said! As a teacher who has to fight off the wave of immorality EVERY SINGLE DAY I say Amen brother. I do believe that there is a surge presently in America to fight this wave and it is growing. I only hope it does not fizzle out. I hope everyone of you take a kid hunting (and not necessarily your own) and teach them what Billygoat is talking about. Ranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Great post and it fits real well! I do believe that America has some problems that are not in the best interest of this country! Too much is not a good thing for any society! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion_70 Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Here Here!!! Very well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDRUNNER Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America AMEN BROTHER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger-Hunter Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America I agree with what you're saying and I'm sure everyone else does too. However, I also reserve the right to aire my grievances to the plethera of laws that are simply over the top and too restrictive. Some of these laws I disagree with and refuse to obey. For example, using walkie-talkies to aid in the taking of game. This is a moronic law and although I haven't had the opportunity to hunt with a partner this year, I'll use mine regardless of the law. Also, lets acknowledge that there are many people here that claim to follow every rule to the T, but don't. For example, keeping their gun unloaded before legal shooting time and unloading in after. We all know that few people follow this because it is common for guys to get to their stand or blind extra early and loading a firearm with bullets or slugs makes noise. This is a noise that I don't want happening when there are deer potentially in my area. Also, I feel safer walking into and out of the woods with a loaded gun in case there are predator animals looking for something juicy to eat (me). I think that these laws are made to prevent the illegal shooting of game and will simply add another charge to any violation already committed. But for honest people, it is simply inconvenient and borderline harrassment. It is important that we be honest about our integrity, our morality, etc. As far as activism and lobbying to change game laws, I'll let someone else do that because once a law is in the books, it will seldom (if ever) be retracted and I've got a job unlike many anti's As an ethical hunter, I agree that we have to be careful about our reputation. But more importantly, we should not roll over so that others will like us (the anti's) This will never happen so I'm not concerned with them. For those of us who love to hunt, sometimes we post things that may not sound like we're decent human beings because we get riled up or get excited and say silly things. However, 99% of the people in here are great people (according to their posts), and those who aren't don't stay for long. The moderators do a good job of policing the forum and I find it to be a great site. Lastly, the moral of the country went down under the Clinton admin and the liberals being in charge. The morals and ethics are coming back because we have a president that has morals, values, and ethics. Just like your boss at work - if your boss comes in late repeatedly, eventually so will many employees. If your boss is taking 2 hour lunches, so will the staff. The country is starting to get better morally and it all stems from top-down leadership. Lead by example!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2500HD Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America How do you get 581 posts in a month and a half? You fingers must be tired! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America He went to the RyanH school of posting. There you go through rigourous training with your fingers and train with the best. 581 is nothing, how many did RyanH have? That dude can outpost anyone. He is the monster of monster buck post status!! BTW: just messing with you Ryan. Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America [ QUOTE ] I agree with what you're saying and I'm sure everyone else does too. However, I also reserve the right to aire my grievances to the plethera of laws that are simply over the top and too restrictive. Some of these laws I disagree with and refuse to obey. For example, using walkie-talkies to aid in the taking of game. This is a moronic law and although I haven't had the opportunity to hunt with a partner this year, I'll use mine regardless of the law. Also, lets acknowledge that there are many people here that claim to follow every rule to the T, but don't. For example, keeping their gun unloaded before legal shooting time and unloading in after. We all know that few people follow this because it is common for guys to get to their stand or blind extra early and loading a firearm with bullets or slugs makes noise. This is a noise that I don't want happening when there are deer potentially in my area. Also, I feel safer walking into and out of the woods with a loaded gun in case there are predator animals looking for something juicy to eat (me). I think that these laws are made to prevent the illegal shooting of game and will simply add another charge to any violation already committed. But for honest people, it is simply inconvenient and borderline harrassment. It is important that we be honest about our integrity, our morality, etc. As far as activism and lobbying to change game laws, I'll let someone else do that because once a law is in the books, it will seldom (if ever) be retracted and I've got a job unlike many anti's As an ethical hunter, I agree that we have to be careful about our reputation. But more importantly, we should not roll over so that others will like us (the anti's) This will never happen so I'm not concerned with them. For those of us who love to hunt, sometimes we post things that may not sound like we're decent human beings because we get riled up or get excited and say silly things. However, 99% of the people in here are great people (according to their posts), and those who aren't don't stay for long. The moderators do a good job of policing the forum and I find it to be a great site. Lastly, the moral of the country went down under the Clinton admin and the liberals being in charge. The morals and ethics are coming back because we have a president that has morals, values, and ethics. Just like your boss at work - if your boss comes in late repeatedly, eventually so will many employees. If your boss is taking 2 hour lunches, so will the staff. The country is starting to get better morally and it all stems from top-down leadership. Lead by example!!! [/ QUOTE ] Amen stinger!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billygoat Posted December 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America [ QUOTE ] Some of these laws I disagree with and refuse to obey. For example, using walkie-talkies to aid in the taking of game. This is a moronic law and, I'll use mine regardless of the law. Also, lets acknowledge that there are many people here that claim to follow every rule to the T, but don't. For example, keeping their gun unloaded before legal shooting time and unloading in after. We all know that few people follow this because it is common for guys to get to their stand or blind extra early and loading a firearm with bullets or slugs makes noise. I think that these laws are made to prevent the illegal shooting of game and will simply add another charge to any violation already committed. But for honest people, it is simply inconvenient and borderline harrassment. It is important that we be honest about our integrity, our morality, etc. As an ethical hunter, I agree that we have to be careful about our reputation. But more importantly, we should not roll over so that others will like us (the anti's) This will never happen so I'm not concerned with them. For those of us who love to hunt, sometimes we post things that may not sound like we're decent human beings because we get riled up or get excited and say silly things. However, 99% of the people in here are great people (according to their posts), and those who aren't don't stay for long. Lastly, the moral of the country went down under the Clinton admin and the liberals being in charge. The morals and ethics are coming back because we have a president that has morals, values, and ethics. quote] REBUTTAL: Stinger, I can hear your frustrations, however as members of the forum we have an obligation to maintain a higher standard... As far as not obeying laws because they are "moronic". Well, I would agree that some laws are moronic, but they have been established for the welfare of those who engage in the activity. Personally, I find a posted speed of 55 "moronic" (sarcastic), that does not justify my action to exceed the speed, even though I am more than capable of controlling my vehicle at speeds in excess of the posted legal limit. I have an obligation as a liscensed driver to uphoald the letter of the law (or face the subsequent concequences), whether I agree with them or not. Like wise as a hunter, merely by engaging in the sport... and purchasing a liscense, you agree to adhere to the letter of the law or face the penalty associated with it. My reason for the post was to encouarge a higher standard of etiquette among forum members. I have no intention of arguing when or where the decline in American ethics began... finger pointing will not solve the problem... I will only argue that that the RT forum is a platform for us, as ethical hunters, to display a "new, growing sense" of ethics and morality, and perhaps make a small change in our little corner of the country. Thanks to all for heart felt posts and Merry Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Great post Bill and I have nothing to add, except that decissions to keep this site a "Family Oriented Hunting" site are on the top of our priority list, but not always cut and dried. We will continue to do our best to keep this site to a standard that is acceptable to the Older members that visit here, and a good example and learning tool, to the youth that are our future. It's members like you Bill, that make this place greater and make moderating this site a whole lot easier. Merry Christmas to all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBUCK Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America I guess I am guilty of soem infractions myself, speeding, running (or rolling) through a stop sign. But I can look at myself in the mirror and feel good about what I see. I also can look at the mounts on my wall and know that I put them there legally and ethically. Good Post !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY911Bowhunter Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Ditto Jim. Oh yeah - and I have impure thoughts - alot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America [ QUOTE ] Morals...something that you are to be brought up with. They vary from one place in the country to another. Ethics....a code set by the elite. Not all agree or adhire to the code because of moral beliefs. [/ QUOTE ] Where did those definitions come from? I much as I dislike quoting someone else, I have to wonder when someone comes up with their own definitions. I also wonder what is so moronic (just because you think so) about not allowing electronic communication (walkie-talkie) to aid in harvesting game. When it comes to breaking the law, it does not matter if you think the law is just or not, you still are in violation and, by definition (the dictionary definition) unethical. Unless is becomes excepted practice to break the law, it is unethical and "answering to a higher power" is not an excuse. Before you think that this is a holier than thou stance, let me just say that I am not perfect, can't be, for to be human is to err. I think that the holier than thou group are the ones who say the law is unjust, therefore I shall ignore it. Those laws are to be obeyed but everyone, and you or I are not exempt. As far as America as a whole, while there has always been a bad side, there is definitely a larger percentage of the population who are leaning to the bad side. Why?, you may ask, in this day and age few people are held responsible for their actions. Blame it on anything, but never be held accountable for something is the theme of today. Sad but true. When it comes to how we present ourselves, remember what a small percentage of the total population we are and if the larger chunk of the population deems our actions unacceptable they can be voted away. Do not worry about the anti-hunters but the rest of the people who are undecided will be the ones who ultimately decide the fate of hunting. Unless you are blind you surely have witnessed recent rulings that have gone against hunting. Posts about breaking the law or poor ethics surely do not present good "press" and may just make a casual visitor (non-hunter) to the site think that hunters are law breaking, unethical thugs. Hmm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Ethics, morals and laws are very touchy. Example, here in PA, it is illegal to shoot a deer laying beside the road that was hit by a car...no matter how bad it is...its illegal . Would someone consider me unethical if I put this animal out of its misery? All laws wrote into the books only infringe on the honest people. Laws and ethics/moral are very much different. Something maybe legal in one state, but not another. If you live in the state where its legal and do it...does that make you unethical in the eyes of the folks in the other state. I don't think someone from VA is unethical for hunting deer with dogs, even thou it is illegal to do so here. Laws are pretty much black and white. You either obey them or not. Its up to you to decide if your willing to live with the circumstances by breaking it. BTW, good post billygoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] America is experiencing a general decline in it’s standard of ethics and moral behavior. We see it in our government, on our TV’s, and indeed in our families. I promise you, if you could bring back great grandparents they would only express dismay over the decline of America’s integrity [/ QUOTE ] generally agree, but there are some fallacies to some of your premises. the above quote for one. i could dig up plenty of "America's integrity in decline" stories, and many of them would date to the 1700 and 1800's. by definition, if there's good, there will be evil--always. until That Day at least. . until then, live your life to the best of your ability, fight ignorance and evil when you can and enjoy life. you never know when someone, or something will take it away. Peace brothers. [/ QUOTE ] Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Well, never mind I've gotten into enough trouble already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archerjg Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Good post. Archerjg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Another spin on ethics, it is illegal to shoot a dying deer (hit by a car?) laying along side of the road but you put it out of it's misery anyway, does that make you unethical? In my mind (simple as it is) you were unethical for breaking the law, but the act that you performed to break the law was not. Until breaking the law becomes the accepted practice of the general public, breaking the law is unethical, but on the other hand, would any person in their right mind think that putting an animal out of it's misery unethical, let nature take it's course, so to speak. At this point let me offer up another thought and that is, was there criminal intent? If in breaking a law, you, or someone you know, stand to gain something (a deer, money, enjoyment) than I tend to think unethical all the way. But I guess it all comes down to willingness to except the circumstances if caught or the ability to live with ourselves. Another thought on the increase in "bad" in America, just look to our schools. When I was in high school my friends and I often had a rifle or shotgun in vehicles, pocket knifes in our pockets along with a stray bullet or two. If we acted up at school the teacher or principal put us in our place and our parents backed them up with a whopping at home. We had respect for our elders and respected others property. Yes, there were the kids who treaded on the bad side, but they were looked down upon, not revered. Look at our high schools now and what do you see, armed officers patrolling the halls, kids with little or no respect for authority and an atmosphere of fear. I'm not saying all are bad, but the percentage isn't looking good. Enough rambling, Happy Holidays to all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeygirl Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Re: Ethics, Morals, Realtree, and America Welcome! Sounds like you had some philosophy courses,lol. We all have our own opinions and what our family/ cultures teach us help us define our opinions. We are all as different as apples and oranges but we are all children of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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