Strut10 Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 So in another thread we're discussing CCW loads and the litigation aspect of carrying handloads came up. Here's my question: What's the difference between me getting in trouble for packing a gun full of kicked-up handloads and me carrying a gun that the court might think is too powerful?? What's the difference?? The argument could be made (by some bloodsucking lawyer, no doubt) against a fellow concealing a 10mm or 41 Mag or 44 Spl or 44 Mag that he's carrying too much gun. What if I put aftermarket grips and sights on it to maximize its defensive abilities?? Does that get me in hot water should I have to use it on a bad guy?? What if I've been to Gunsite or Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute for weapons training. Do I get a legal kick in the pants for maximizing my effectiveness in a pressure situation??? I'm kinda just thinking out loud, here. But I believe these are some real questions that might have some really messed up answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xen Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Re: O.K. Now hypothetically........... those are some great questions. i think there are a lot of arguments people could make in defense, but it sucks that people have to worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarvDog Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Re: O.K. Now hypothetically........... These are some good questions and there will debates both ways. I personally am not carrying for malicious reasons (kicked-up loads or overpowered handgun). I just want to be able to protect myself and stop the threat if there is one. Either way: it's better to be tried by 12 rather than carried by 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Re: O.K. Now hypothetically........... [ QUOTE ] What if I've been to Gunsite or Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute for weapons training. [/ QUOTE ] These are the same people I read about that said do not use handloads in your CCW weapon! Dead is dead! But there are some bloodsucking lawyers out there that do not like that we carry a concealed firearm! They are the knit-wits that go out and make the fiasco in the court room! I know for a fact, that if you are involved in a home protection shooting. Your gun and ammo will be taken somewhere for inspection. It will be analyzed for powder charges, bullet weights and ect. This is the political BS that can be used against you! Personally, its all BS to me, but why take the chance. I didn't want to start a POOP storm Don. But as far as the external modifications, that I don't know about! As long as they are legal, have at it! Years ago, I was involved in a police group that did things for the community. It was an County Auxiliary Police. There was times when we were told to be ARMED. We were told flat out, NO HAND LOADS!!! Must be all factory loads for carry and for police qualifications. Needless to say I never did carry armed. But I did qualify! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Re: O.K. Now hypothetically........... I agree even though I do not carry. But I may one day and luckily I can in my state. I do not reload or plan to start anytime soon so I probably may not have to worry about it. My take is do whatcha gotta do to be/feel safe. I also know its wise to play the game and play by the rules set down by law. Its bad enough to of had to unholster and fire your weapon in self defence. I can only imagine what it would feel like to actually have to fire at someone who was trying to do you or your family harm. I would hate to be charged negatively over how much powder I used or and mods I may of done. Harv said it best. "Either way: it's better to be tried by 12 rather than carried by 6." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowana Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Re: O.K. Now hypothetically........... In Michigan you have to attend a Weekend class that involves classroom, time with the local prosecutor, State Police Representative and Live range fire before you can qualify for a CCW. Then you have to go before a review board (they review your background check and give your license a stamp of approval). One of the issues brought up WAS handloads. Don't use them. There have been known past presidence cases in which tort law (forget the criminal part) was found favorable to the defendant. I'll check the NRA website, it might be there as well. Now, I handload myself. I own a nice Dillion 1050. But, I carry all factory rounds for RELIABILITY purposes. Premium ammunition is less likley to create a stoppage. This ensures that all bystanders would remain safe. That's the reason to carry premium defense rounds (I think you know where I'm coming from). My attorney (who shoots with me) told me that I should say nothing if involved in a defensive shooting. let him handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminator Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Re: O.K. Now hypothetically........... I carry a 10mm for self defense and would hate to see the outcome if I ever had to use it in a just situation. The bad guys seem to be more protected by the law than decent hard working people. When all is said, I had rather face a court room alive ridding the world of some scum than to be dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
va_strutstopper Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Re: O.K. Now hypothetically........... i just bought my first pistol its a cobra 380 i never felt the need for one before i was always a longgun man but the drug problem has got so bad here that i bought one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo_hunter Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Re: O.K. Now hypothetically........... Your right, try to limit the lawyers ammo (no punn intended) as much as you can. Example - You used hollow points because you wanted to kill the person. Not because your worried about over penatration and shooting thru a person into your neighbors home, thru the wall into your childrens room etc. etc. etc. you could go on forever dammed if you do dammed if you don't. Truth is there's a attorney connected to every round you shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierbuck Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 Re: O.K. Now hypothetically........... If you are involved in a defensive shooting, there will be a thorough investigation. Do what you are asked to do, but do not open your pie hole. Say nothing but, "Gee, officer, I think I should talk to a lawyer first." Do not worry that it makes it look like you are hiding something. At that moment you shouldn't be talking to anybody because I guarantee that unless you are out of the ordinary, you will be horribly shaken and babble like a fool, likely saying things that can be misconstrued to work against you. Do not consent to any search. Talk to your lawyer first, unless the police have a warrant. I'm a prosecutor, and I tell this to my family and friends. The police have a job to do, and while you may slow it down a little, they will still get done what they need to do, and if they are cool, they understand about you not wanting to give up all your rights because some puke made you shoot him. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to live. HB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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