Guest Andrea Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Just heard on the news that they are trying to pass a law that would require a woman to view the ultrasound of her unborn baby BEFORE she decides to have an abortion. I think that is a good idea. Sure, some heartless women will still go ahead with it. But I bet it changes the minds of a LOT of women/girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutz4bucks Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion Yeah no doubt it should save a few lives... But who is going to end up paying for it...MMM US TAXPAYERS Not saying that every life is not important though!!! I'm on the fence for that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun_300 Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion That would be a good start, even better if they'd ban it all together except for rape victims. IMO that's the only people who should get them if they wish to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion Dont know Andrea. Maybe it will save some, but would be kind of skeptical. Think honestly the answer is to stop all abortions, with the exception of those in instances where the woman was raped or there is some medical reason that the child or the mother will not make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest passinthru Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion I find it odd that those who proclaim to love life, and to want to protect the unborn, actually see no problem with killing a child because his father is a rapist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] I find it odd that those who proclaim to love life, and to want to protect the unborn, actually see no problem with killing a child because his father is a rapist. [/ QUOTE ] I know I'd really feel great knowing that I was the product of a rape, my father is scum, and I was pawned off to an ophanage because my mother couldn't look at me without being reminded of the time she was raped. Sounds like the recipe for a very happy life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] I find it odd that those who proclaim to love life, and to want to protect the unborn, actually see no problem with killing a child because his father is a rapist. [/ QUOTE ] Been some really good discussions on this topic in here in the past, if you are interested, try a search. I am not for the taking of an innocent life, however, I am also not for destroying the lives potentially of more than one due to the actions of some piece of trash who could not control himself. As hypocritical as this is, in the rare cases where a woman becomes pregnant as a result of a rapist, I do think that in those cases with counseling that she should have the right to make that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest passinthru Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion """I know I'd really feel great knowing that I was the product of a rape, my father is scum, and I was pawned off to an ophanage because my mother couldn't look at me without being reminded of the time she was raped. Sounds like the recipe for a very happy life.""" So you would rather be put to death, or have other children put to death because of how your/their existence made others feel, than to have a chance at life???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest passinthru Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I find it odd that those who proclaim to love life, and to want to protect the unborn, actually see no problem with killing a child because his father is a rapist. [/ QUOTE ] Been some really good discussions on this topic in here in the past, if you are interested, try a search. I am not for the taking of an innocent life, however, I am also not for destroying the lives potentially of more than one due to the actions of some piece of trash who could not control himself. As hypocritical as this is, in the rare cases where a woman becomes pregnant as a result of a rapist, I do think that in those cases with counseling that she should have the right to make that decision. [/ QUOTE ] So in otherwords the child whose father is a rapist should be put to death by it's mother because it's birth would cause her anquish???? That is the very same arguement many women use to justify killing their children...."it would be unwanted"..."I don't have any money"...."The father ran off"....."the father is in prison".....I don't want the child".....and so on. You are either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] """I know I'd really feel great knowing that I was the product of a rape, my father is scum, and I was pawned off to an ophanage because my mother couldn't look at me without being reminded of the time she was raped. Sounds like the recipe for a very happy life.""" So you would rather be put to death, or have other children put to death because of how your/their existence made others feel, than to have a chance at life???? [/ QUOTE ] In that rare circumstance, undoubtedly...yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest passinthru Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion Here is a scenario.....Suppose a woman gets falling down drunk, and winds up in bed with a man she met at a club, who runs off the next morning before she awakes......Suppose she becomes pregnant by that encounter.......Would her killing the baby be justified because she didn't even remember the fathers name??? You see life, all life is created by the Lord God. Even life that is conceived by rape, or drunken escapades, or perverted acts with strangers. Life belongs to God, and God alone. It is sad that many do not understand this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest passinthru Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] """I know I'd really feel great knowing that I was the product of a rape, my father is scum, and I was pawned off to an ophanage because my mother couldn't look at me without being reminded of the time she was raped. Sounds like the recipe for a very happy life.""" So you would rather be put to death, or have other children put to death because of how your/their existence made others feel, than to have a chance at life???? [/ QUOTE ] In that rare circumstance, undoubtedly...yes. [/ QUOTE ] So would you also agree that a child should be put to death if it was conceived accidently, and was unwanted by the mother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] Here is a scenario.....Suppose a woman gets falling down drunk, and winds up in bed with a man she met at a club, who runs off the next morning before she awakes......Suppose she becomes pregnant by that encounter.......Would her killing the baby be justified because she didn't even remember the fathers name??? You see life, all life is created by the Lord God. Even life that is conceived by rape, or drunken escapades, or perverted acts with strangers. Life belongs to God, and God alone. It is sad that many do not understand this. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. But everyone in here knows that already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest passinthru Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Here is a scenario.....Suppose a woman gets falling down drunk, and winds up in bed with a man she met at a club, who runs off the next morning before she awakes......Suppose she becomes pregnant by that encounter.......Would her killing the baby be justified because she didn't even remember the fathers name??? You see life, all life is created by the Lord God. Even life that is conceived by rape, or drunken escapades, or perverted acts with strangers. Life belongs to God, and God alone. It is sad that many do not understand this. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. But everyone in here knows that already. [/ QUOTE ] I tend to disagree. Muggs just stated that he favored the lives of children conceived by rape taken, unless I read him wrong. You see there are many Christians who claim to be "pro-life", yet allow exclusions for certain things. Legally, that is their right, but they cannot claim to be pro-life, and then suggest putting babies of rape, or incest to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] """I know I'd really feel great knowing that I was the product of a rape, my father is scum, and I was pawned off to an ophanage because my mother couldn't look at me without being reminded of the time she was raped. Sounds like the recipe for a very happy life.""" So you would rather be put to death, or have other children put to death because of how your/their existence made others feel, than to have a chance at life???? [/ QUOTE ] In that rare circumstance, undoubtedly...yes. [/ QUOTE ] So would you also agree that a child should be put to death if it was conceived accidently, and was unwanted by the mother? [/ QUOTE ] I would te....**cough** **cough** hang on a second **cough** **cough** I seem to have something in my mouth...got it! Hey, look at that, it was the words you're trying to put in my mouth. I say this. I would agree that I don't judge a man, woman, or child until I've walk a mile in their shoes. I also don't pretend to be in any position to tell someone what they choose to do is either the "right" or "wrong" decision...especially not a woman who's getting ready to conceive the child of a man who has violently raped her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Here is a scenario.....Suppose a woman gets falling down drunk, and winds up in bed with a man she met at a club, who runs off the next morning before she awakes......Suppose she becomes pregnant by that encounter.......Would her killing the baby be justified because she didn't even remember the fathers name??? You see life, all life is created by the Lord God. Even life that is conceived by rape, or drunken escapades, or perverted acts with strangers. Life belongs to God, and God alone. It is sad that many do not understand this. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. But everyone in here knows that already. [/ QUOTE ] I tend to disagree. Muggs just stated that he favored the lives of children conceived by rape taken, unless I read him wrong. You see there are many Christians who claim to be "pro-life", yet allow exclusions for certain things. Legally, that is their right, but they cannot claim to be pro-life, and then suggest putting babies of rape, or incest to death. [/ QUOTE ] Wait a minute now...hold on...you just disagreed with me agreeing with you. LMBOROF And just as a side note, I know who you are AKA - (octoberman, justapilgrim, yewbowman ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest passinthru Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion I am sorry if you think I tried to put words in your mouth. I simply commented on your comments. You stated that you felt a child whose mother despised him, or her because she was raped by their father would have been justified in killing them in her womb. I am simply asking you if you feel a woman who would equally despise her child because its birth would interfere, or damage her life is justified in feeling the same way. The point that you miss, is that children are killed in womb because they are unwanted in the first place. To suggest that the unwanted children of rape are justly killed, suggests that all unwanted babies are justly killed. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot claim to love life, then kill a child in the womb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] And just as a side note, I know who you are AKA - (octoberman, justapilgrim, yewbowman ) [/ QUOTE ] I thought that might be a possibility too. BTW - On a slightly different angle, what are everyone's views on abortion in the case where a woman's life is in serious danger from the pregnancy? Speaking from experience, I once dated a woman who's doctor informed her that due to complications from an earlier pregnancy, if she ever did become pregnant again, there was less than a 10% chance of her surviving to carry the baby to term. Eventually she had a hysterectomy so the question became moot, but what decision would you make if you were put into that situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] """I know I'd really feel great knowing that I was the product of a rape, my father is scum, and I was pawned off to an ophanage because my mother couldn't look at me without being reminded of the time she was raped. Sounds like the recipe for a very happy life.""" So you would rather be put to death, or have other children put to death because of how your/their existence made others feel, than to have a chance at life???? [/ QUOTE ] This is not something you quoted from me. However, I do have to agree with Eric(muggs) here which as most regular members who come down to this room know does nto happen too often. I think when a woman has something done to her as violent as rape, she should have the right to make that decision as to whether or not she will carry or abort and later support, and take care of a baby that was made out of hatred only to remind her of something that might be only a horific reminder of the event. What right do you or I have to tell her otherwise? It is for God to decide, not me or you. I do think God would show mercy on the woman who made that decision under those circumstances. For those who murder unborn babies out of convenience, well that is a whole different story, and certainly they will have to answer for the things they have done. Like I said, I feel a bit hypocritical on this topic, but I stand where I stand and that is not going to change. Also, I can see too where you are attempting to put words in others mouths, and distorting or twisting what they write. Dont think you will get anywhere here attempting to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] I know I'd really feel great knowing that I was the product of a rape, my father is scum, and I was pawned off to an ophanage because my mother couldn't look at me without being reminded of the time she was raped. Sounds like the recipe for a very happy life. [/ QUOTE ] Hey, I got an idea. Lets round up all the peole who are products of a rape and do away with them. While we're at it, why don't we clean out the orphanages too, of all those sad unwanted children, who's lives should have apparently been terminated long ago in the womb. I'm being sarcastic here. Who is man, to second guess how another persons life may or may not unfold, that we snuff out their exhistance, just to be on the safe side??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] are everyone's views on abortion in the case where a woman's life is in serious danger from the pregnancy? [/ QUOTE ] I commented on that above Texan, and have made my thoughts on that well known in here before as well. I think in those situations after counseling, the woman has that right to make that decision after a physician has made it perfectly clear that is the only choice for saving the womans life. Where I have a real problem is the killing for convenience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest passinthru Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Here is a scenario.....Suppose a woman gets falling down drunk, and winds up in bed with a man she met at a club, who runs off the next morning before she awakes......Suppose she becomes pregnant by that encounter.......Would her killing the baby be justified because she didn't even remember the fathers name??? You see life, all life is created by the Lord God. Even life that is conceived by rape, or drunken escapades, or perverted acts with strangers. Life belongs to God, and God alone. It is sad that many do not understand this. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. But everyone in here knows that already. [/ QUOTE ] I tend to disagree. Muggs just stated that he favored the lives of children conceived by rape taken, unless I read him wrong. You see there are many Christians who claim to be "pro-life", yet allow exclusions for certain things. Legally, that is their right, but they cannot claim to be pro-life, and then suggest putting babies of rape, or incest to death. [/ QUOTE ] Wait a minute now...hold on...you just disagreed with me agreeing with you. LMBOROF And just as a side note, I know who you are AKA - (octoberman, justapilgrim, yewbowman ) [/ QUOTE ] October is a magical month, we are all Pilgrims, and yew is a fine bow wood........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion [ QUOTE ] I am simply asking you if you feel a woman who would equally despise her child because its birth would interfere, or damage her life is justified in feeling the same way. [/ QUOTE ] No. I would not support such a decision and I don't feel an abortion would be appropriate in that case. If it was my girlfriend who was pregnant and wanting to abort the fetus, I would do everything in my power to change her mind and assume responsibility for the child myself. If it was my daughter, I would do the same. If it was anyone else, someone outside of my immediately family...my opinion, although present, would not be voiced since I'm in no position to make my opinion known. Let me ask you this. Do you believe human life to start at conception or birth? If you say conception, then I'd assume that you don't celebrate your birthday, but rather your conception day, correct? Also, fetuses are miscarried all the time. Who is to blame for that? Is that considered a death, or a miscarriage in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrea Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion In my opinion....a baby who was miscarried is the death of an unborn child. It would devestate me. Life begins at conception but since NO ONE can accurately pin-point that exact date ( unless of course, you are a test tube baby) then we are left with celebrating the day you are born. And all life, no matter under WHAT circumstances, is created by God. To think that a child conceived thru the violence of a rape is not going to grow up to be loved dearly by his or her parents is not our decision to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest passinthru Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Ultrasound/abortion """No. I would not support such a decision and I don't feel an abortion would be appropriate in that case.""" Why not?. If you think killing a child {I refuse to use the word abortion} of rape because it would be unwanted by it's mother is ok, why would you not support the killing of a child who was fathered by some stranger after their mother took part in a night of drunkeness , and sex, and after getting pregnant decided she would not want, or love the child........What is the difference?.......Both children will be unwanted. If you suggest that not wanting a child is grounds for killing it, you must be consistent in your arguement. """If it was my girlfriend who was pregnant and wanting to abort the fetus, I would do everything in my power to change her mind and assume responsibility for the child myself. If it was my daughter, I would do the same.""" That is not the issue. The issue is, would they be righteous in deciding to kill the child, despite your objections?. I am not argueing the legality of killing children, for it is legal to kill children here in America. I am asking if it is righteous, and in line with the Word of God. """If it was anyone else, someone outside of my immediately family...my opinion, although present, would not be voiced since I'm in no position to make my opinion known.""" So, if you have no opinion about people who kill children in the womb, have you surrendered your opinion of those who kill children outside the womb??? """Let me ask you this. Do you believe human life to start at conception or birth? If you say conception, then I'd assume that you don't celebrate your birthday, but rather your conception day, correct?""" I believe that life starts based upon the Will of God. It was Gods Will, and Spirit that concieved the Lord Jesus Christ into the womb of a peasant girl. In the same way, it is the Will of God that allows a woman to concieve a child in her womb. Not just children that are convienant, loved, and wanted by their mothers, but ALL Children, even those concieved by rape. """Also, fetuses are miscarried all the time. Who is to blame for that? Is that considered a death, or a miscarriage in your opinion? """ The Word of God declares of Himself........"Thy Will be done, on earth, as it is in Heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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