njbowhntr Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ Well I have read the responses on this post. I notice that there are alot of different, but yet the same views at to what they would. Some say they would have dropped the bow, and others say not on their life. Well that is easy for you to say, you were not in the tree. We are all a little tougher when we are not the one in the tree with a gun drawn. And on the other end, none of us were the police officer that walk into a scenerio that is not taught in the police academy or they have ever encountered. Not that police officers learn everything in the academy, but they do learn alot. I am sure that if the same officer was to head out on a call of the same situation it would be handled differently. But, it will only be different once he is positive that the person in the tree only has a bow, and no firearm is present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ I think that this is an example of what is wrong with this world. Your neighbor can see something on your property that they have not positively identified and call the police, without first trying to contact you, who can arrive and trespass on your property and assault with a weapon, someone (maybe you) who is engaged in a lawful activity. There was no immediate threat to anyone and surely no reason for the response from the officer. The officer assumed and we all know what happens when you assume. I am a fan of the police for the most part but there are definitely some training issues out there. I have several friends who are police officers and/or detectives and they all think the officer in question overreacted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ Wouldn't it be great if game wardens used the same tactics everytime they checked out a hunters in the field? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddpipkin Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ Speaking from the vantage point of 16 years of law enforcement experience.... WHAT THE **** EVER HAPPENED TO COURTESY AND "INNOCENT UNLESS PROVEN GUILTY" ?!?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ [ QUOTE ] Speaking from the vantage point of 16 years of law enforcement experience.... WHAT THE **** EVER HAPPENED TO COURTESY AND "INNOCENT UNLESS PROVEN GUILTY" ?!?!?!? [/ QUOTE ] You are kidding me right?? Police Officers now treat suspacts as if they are innocent?? How can we make arrests then with that thought process? The question is not the guilt or innocence of the hunter...the question is whether or not the officer overreacted. I'm sure if you really have 16 years of law enforcement experience, you have been in situations where you have not had "all" the information as to why someone is doing something, or what the intentions of that armed individual may be. Someone being innocent until proven guilty is great for the courtroom or the public eye. If innocent until proven guilty applied to law enforcement officers in the field...no one would be arrested. We would have to assume everyone is innocent...right?? So what agency where you employed with?? Police Officer or Corrections Officer?? I, as an 18 year veteran of a police agency will treat someone in possession of a weapon, that we have had a complaint on, as a suspect...and make sure that I am not injured by this person. This guy was hunting in a 1 acre woodlot in a suburban area...read the article completely. Is it possible the officer not imagining someone would ever been hunting deer there, may have thought this was a lunatic sitting in a tree about to be a sniper situation?? Your 16 years of alleged law enforcement should teach you that anything is possibly, especially when dealing with mental health patients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ [ QUOTE ] Speaking from the vantage point of 16 years of law enforcement experience.... WHAT THE **** EVER HAPPENED TO COURTESY AND "INNOCENT UNLESS PROVEN GUILTY" ?!?!?!? [/ QUOTE ] Well, I'm no police officer, but I do know the difference between courtesy and stupidity. Everyone knows that if a police officer responds to a call like that, his last thought while approaching the "person of interest" is "innocent until proven guilty". They are trained in self defence for a good reason. and they have to expect the worst at all times, just to survive this crazy world themselves. we'd be seeing huge grave-yards devoted to policemen if they approached these situations with "innocent until proven guilty" on their minds. I suspect that most policemen these days especially, respond to a call like this thinking more along the lines of "Will I make it home for supper with my wife and kids tonight" That doesn't mean they should go in there with guns a blazing...LOL...but a little cautious common sense goes a long way, and that is exactly what they are trained for. They're trained to protect the innocent, not think everyone is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBUCK Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ I just read they reimbused the guy for the damage to the bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ [ QUOTE ] I just read they reimbused the guy for the damage to the bow. [/ QUOTE ] As I feel they probably should have in this case. If the officer had been a bit more experienced in archery, he would have realized that by dropping the arrows then lowering the bow was not a real huge threat to him. I can't second guess this officer as none of us should either as we were not there, do not know his life experiences, nor the exact nature of the call. Monday morning quarterbacking...the officer may have overreacted a bit but Roddy received a new bow. For all of those who state they do not care what the officer said, they would not drop a stupid bow...are just asking for more legal problems not too mention they are facing an almost justifiable use of deadly physical force on the part of the officer for refusing to drop a weapon more than likely with an arrow on the rest. You have families for Gods sake...it is a bow...not a child you are being asked to drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallard_drake85 Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ swamphunter- i love that pic under you name! mallard_drake85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ [ QUOTE ] swamphunter- i love that pic under you name! mallard_drake85 [/ QUOTE ] He's been here as long as I have been....he's shrunk a bit over the years though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddpipkin Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ [ QUOTE ] I'm sure if you really have 16 years of law enforcement experience, you have been in situations where you have not had "all" the information as to why someone is doing something, or what the intentions of that armed individual may be. [/ QUOTE ] More than a few times. The sixteen years I spent in law enforcement before my career-ending injury was as a Game and Fish Enforcement Officer. EVERYBODY I approached in the field from September through the end of April was armed. In the summer months, that dropped to a mere 75%. You guys have watched WAY too much TV. Armed does not necessarily mean dangerous, except to left-wing liberals and other lower forms of life !!!!!!!!! ESPECIALLY with a bow. Has this officer NEVER had a lesson in field tactics and officer survival? Could he not have approached from an angle that would make it difficult for the hunter (??suspect??) to gain an advantage over him? Could he not have asked from cover for the man to identify himself and state his business? Could he not have shown a little courtesy? If I had EVER approached someone the way the original story described, I would have been fired, and justifiably so. [ QUOTE ] Police spokesman Lt. Sean Cooney said the incident report states Coppola's gun was drawn, but it reads as if it was never pointed at Roddy. [/ QUOTE ] I have seen other officers who knew they were wrong use that type of wording. Not saying that this officer is, but ........ [ QUOTE ] Cooney said Roddy threatened the officer. Coppola wrote in his report that Roddy said he could have "picked off" the officer as he approached. [/ QUOTE ] Or maybe the officer, after screwing up his approach, and realizing he COULD have been picked off, projected that thought onto the one who MIGHT just get him fired for his screw up.. [ QUOTE ] "That's a very odd statement to make, to say, 'I could have easily shot you as you walked up,' " Cooney said. "What a bizarre thing to say. What other way is there to interpret that?" [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, a guy with a BOW is going to say that to a guy in uniform, who he knows has a gun?!?!?! Roddy denies saying that and contacted the police department's internal affairs division when he read the report. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Roddy said the city agreed to pay for the bow repairs if he signed an agreement stating he would not sue [/ QUOTE ] I know THAT tactic well. When they KNOW they would get burned for a LOT more, if this got in front of a jury. But they also know that most ordinary citizens don't have the resources to pursue a lawsuit against a branch of government. Doubt that a HUNTER would get any help from the ACLU!!!! So they offer a settlement to get the problem to go away. [ QUOTE ] Police Capt. Richard Conklin, who teaches hunting laws to city officers, said it's common for North Stamford residents to report hunters in the woods with weapons. [/ QUOTE ] Did this guy cut class, or sleep through it? [ QUOTE ] "We can't enter a home without a search warrant, but we can certainly go in a back yard if we have a report of a man with a gun in her back yard," Cooney said. [/ QUOTE ] What the he!! would be wrong with knocking on the dad-gum DOOR!?!?!?! Gonna have to disagree with mallard -drake-85 and buckee on this.... [ QUOTE ] im gonna respond from the POV of a police officer as stated before, when we recieve a call like that we have to respond expecting the worst. we are trained that way. [/ QUOTE ] WRONG!! Expect a POSITIVE citizen/leo contact and a good ending, but be PREPARED for the worst, so you can handle whatever comes!!!!! I am familiar with the situation, and have seen other officers involved in similar ones. Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying unequivocally that this officer was in the wrong. But, judging ONLY from the information posted so far, it appears to me that he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallard_drake85 Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ we are to respond as if there actually is a person with a gun, im just abiding by my SOP's or else its my job (or possibly my life). personally, for my safety and others, until i have the situation diffused, he is armed and dangerous (if that pi**es him or his family or anyone else off, well im going home tonight to my family!!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallard_drake85 Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Speaking from the vantage point of 16 years of law enforcement experience.... WHAT THE **** EVER HAPPENED TO COURTESY AND "INNOCENT UNLESS PROVEN GUILTY" ?!?!?!? [/ QUOTE ] as an officer, i treat people with respect and courtesy they deserve until they prove to me other wise that might create a problem for me (however that happens very rarely) most people get kind of upset once i hand them thier citation and tell them to "have a good day and drive safely" most dont take to kindly to that, even though im sincere. it only takes one moment for an officer to lose his life....there have been over 43 officers killed in 2007 already!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Speaking from the vantage point of 16 years of law enforcement experience.... WHAT THE **** EVER HAPPENED TO COURTESY AND "INNOCENT UNLESS PROVEN GUILTY" ?!?!?!? [/ QUOTE ] as an officer, i treat people with respect and courtesy they deserve until they prove to me other wise that might create a problem for me (however that happens very rarely) most people get kind of upset once i hand them thier citation and tell them to "have a good day and drive safely" most dont take to kindly to that, even though im sincere. it only takes one moment for an officer to lose his life....there have been over 43 officers killed in 2007 already!!! [/ QUOTE ] 44 now...I just checked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallard_drake85 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ thats too many, what is this world comming to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Speaking from the vantage point of 16 years of law enforcement experience.... WHAT THE **** EVER HAPPENED TO COURTESY AND "INNOCENT UNLESS PROVEN GUILTY" ?!?!?!? [/ QUOTE ] as an officer, i treat people with respect and courtesy they deserve until they prove to me other wise that might create a problem for me (however that happens very rarely) most people get kind of upset once i hand them thier citation and tell them to "have a good day and drive safely" most dont take to kindly to that, even though im sincere. it only takes one moment for an officer to lose his life....there have been over 43 officers killed in 2007 already!!! [/ QUOTE ] 44 now...I just checked [/ QUOTE ] 46.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Police encounter with hunter leads to ........ [ QUOTE ] 46.... [/ QUOTE ] Geesh, and the year is young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OklaBow712 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Id NEVER drop my bow..officer or not..I'll lower it down.. shoot me if ya dont like it! gotta agree on this one....not dropping an $1100 bow from 30 ft...thats a ridiculous demand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 gotta agree on this one....not dropping an $1100 bow from 30 ft...thats a ridiculous demand Oh, I don't know about that. I think if I have a gun pointed at me, I'll drop my $1100 bow from 30' .......lol. Want me to throw it down the 30' ............... ok, how hard? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 gotta agree on this one....not dropping an $1100 bow from 30 ft...thats a ridiculous demand Ya... the options are much better aren't they...kids with no father because he's locked up or dead...over a bow....man I can't believe how some people wan't to defy law enforcement officers over property and expect no repercussions. To each your own...as a law enforcement officer...I am going home whether or not I am right or wrong in the end...you choose your own road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 While I can not see defying the law enforcement officer's commands, I still stand by my original post on the subject. The response to a phone call from a neighbor was inappropriate on many levels. If it were me in that tree not only would I have been reimbursed for the bow, I would have made sure that the city and the individual officer had lighter wallets. Carrying a badge should not/does not give one the right to trespass on private property and assault, with a weapon, an individual engaged in a lawful activity. If that particular officer felt threatened in that situation, then he needs to find a different profession. A phone call to the home or a knock on the door would have avoided the whole situation. The officer should have been trained better, or maybe had an attitude adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 While I can not see defying the law enforcement officer's commands, I still stand by my original post on the subject. The response to a phone call from a neighbor was inappropriate on many levels. If it were me in that tree not only would I have been reimbursed for the bow, I would have made sure that the city and the individual officer had lighter wallets. Carrying a badge should not/does not give one the right to trespass on private property and assault, with a weapon, an individual engaged in a lawful activity. If that particular officer felt threatened in that situation, then he needs to find a different profession. A phone call to the home or a knock on the door would have avoided the whole situation. The officer should have been trained better, or maybe had an attitude adjustment. You are partially right here Elk...the neighbor who called provided information that was not toally accurate more than likely. The officer responds to a small 1 acre parcel of trees knowing he is approaching a man in a tree that is armed. I believe the article itself stated that it was in a suburban area, a place probably not likely to have someone sitting in a tree waiting for a world class buck. He IS allowed by law to enter the property to investigate this..it is not a trespass, at least in NY State. Do I think he should have approached the homeowner first....absolutely. I can't remember if the article stated that or not without re-reading it, but was the homeowner away at the time maybe?There is absolutely no way the officer would end up with a lighter wallet...as you can see the city reimbursed the bow owner. Unless you have been an LEO, don't judge what makes one individual or another "feel threatened". You are Monday morning quarterbacking a situation that you were not involved in or present for. I do agree however that some training to probably not only that one individual city officer, but the whole department may be in order. I don't think this was about attitude though, he made a mistake...have you ever? It is amazing how when an LEO make a small mistake, that hurts not one person, people call for his head and his job...can you imagine if that was the way it was at your place of employment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 I have to admit, I am a Monday morning quarterback on this one, but that is the only view that I have. Once the officer's weapon left the holster it went beyond a little mistake. Should he be without a job for it? No. Should there be an investigation into the situation? Yes. If you feel threatened by a man in a tree with a bow (maybe he had a hidden firearm) should you be a LEO? Hmmm.... Can a LEO investigate on private property without landowner permission or a search warrant? According to friends in law enforcement in my area, No, at least not legally. That move will cost you a case in court. The good thing is that not one person was hurt and it was a learning opportunity for everyone. The other side would be, what if the LEO were to try to contact the homeowner first and in the time lost to that endeavor the man in the tree started to shoot the neighbors and passing vehicles. The officers/city would be blamed for that. Tough job being a "peace officer". May God bless them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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