Jeramie Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 The 30-30 and 30-06 is the SAME caliber a .308. The -06 has more powder behind it. I handload so I understand a 30-06 holds more powder however that is a Blanket statement, The two are totall different especially when youre talking bullet choice. Youre not likely going to find a 150grn sst loaded in a 30-30 case. Round nose bullets are the basis for the old cal. Infact the dia of the bullet is the only simularity youll see in this comparison. If you were companing a .308 and a .30-06 you would have more to go on. The dia does not make the bullet, energy, or velocity nearly the same. You can even compare two cals that are very close (6mm and .243). They load with the same dia bullet and even the same type (Boat tail poly, v-max, etc) but balistically you will see vairable differences. This does not make the two the same. The .30-06 was intended to be a 1000yd cartridge from its inception. That could NEVER be said about the 30-30. Comparing the two in any field based souly on 7.62 mm isnt fair.Simularity dies after dia. The .30-06 is responsible for more choices in cal than probably any other on the market. It probably has more bullet combos and factory load choices than any on the market. The .30-06 may very well be a (.308, 7.62mm) .30 cal bullet but the case has spawned choices such as, .25-06 .243 .260 .270 .280 .308 .338-06 and thats not even the tip of the iceberg. As far as the only deer you lost was it the 30-30 or a bad shot placement? Notice I called it a .30 cal? The term Bigger was actually meant to imply Energy and velocity, Simple mis wording on my behalf. Notice I also said it was the only deer Ive lost.... That alone states that Im ethical. Granted there is always the chance that I pulled a shot but when I practice out over 250yds and currently have been shooting out to 350yds, for fun. Chances are I didn't pull a 100yd shot on a doe standing broad side (Solid Rest, zeroed 1" high at 100). The hit was solid, double lung, with a Remington Corelokt. I had her dead to rights but the 30-30 didnt get the job done that day. She bled for hours and hours but never bled out. Translate more energy into a different .30cal and you're better off. Since I have taken numerous 150+ yard shots with a .30-06 and mass increase of energy has yet to fail me. ------------------------------------------------------------ On that basis lets look at the difference in the two rounds Im referring to, a 170grn (30/30) Corelokt hollow point (at 100yds). And a 180grn (.30-06) Corelokt (at 100yds). The .30-06 has 848 ftlbs more energy at 100yds than the 30-30. A lot of people look for 1000ftlbs of energy so youve more than doubled the energy needed. With a good expanding bullet that will be far more effective than the 30-30. Using a standard bullet I personally would not shoot a deer beyond the 100yard mark with a 30-30. According to numbers you're still carrying enough energy to do the job but in reality deer can be very tough creatures. Why would you want to use borderline energy? You can kill a deer with a .22 or even a .223 but why would you when more efficient choices are out there? The same applies here. If you can stay inside a 6 inch group at 200 yard with a good shot placement the 30-30 it will take down a deer. You just need to stay above 1000 lbs. of energy. Actually if you're looking at a ballistics chart many, many 30-30 rounds are barely around 1000ftlbs at 200yds. In fact a 170grn corelokt is only in the 800's (according to their website). It may still get the job done but id be willing to bet you wont simply walk up to claim the deer. Get ready to do some tracking and praying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Actually if you're looking at a ballistics chart many, many 30-30 rounds are barely around 1000ftlbs at 200yds. In fact a 170grn corelokt is only in the 800's (according to their website). Yep, Jeramie is right here. Kind of surprising if you look at ballistic tables, after 200 yards, the 30-30 is similar in energies to a .223 with a 69 grain boattail hollow point, however the velocities and drops of the two hold no comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 So what would happen to energy/velosity if you reloaded a 160gr. ballistic tip bullet for 30-30 and shot it out of a single shot? I wander what kind of results you would get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeramie Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 So what would happen to energy/velosity if you reloaded a 160gr. ballistic tip bullet for 30-30 and shot it out of a single shot? I wander what kind of results you would get. Ive thought about that too John. Your case length, powder, weight, and bullet cal do not change. I really dont see how it could gain much in velocity. Take into account ive never loaded or seen anything other than a standard round loaded in a 30-30. That said, it seems to me with all the factors the same, shy of the shape of the bullet, not much could change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Ive thought about that too John. Your case length, powder, weight, and bullet cal do not change. I really dont see how it could gain much in velocity. Take into account ive never loaded or seen anything other than a standard round loaded in a 30-30. That said, it seems to me with all the factors the same, shy of the shape of the bullet, not much could change. Considering the size difference in the 30-30 casing to the 308's, I would think that a good pointed bullet would change the down range velocity and energy significantly closer to the 308's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeramie Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 A good comparison would be Hornady's new rounds. That would be about as close as it gets. As far as matching a .308, I dont see it. Im betting a different powder comes into play here. The burn rate between the two has to be completely different. Balistically the .308 is very close to the .30-06. Changing the bullet on the 30-30 cant be enough to get it that close. I bet if you look at the powders they are totally different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeramie Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I didnt find any data concerning loading a pointed bullet into a .30-30 case. I did however visit Hornady and use thier new design and run the following numbers. Even with the new pointed design the .30-30 is no where close to the .308. The .308 is much closer to the .30-06. Again, my guess would be powder (hence the difference in recoil too) LeverRevolution .30-30 160grn @ 100yds = 2150fps @ 1643 ftlbs Vs .308 165grn btsp (boat tail, soft point) @ 100yds = 2496fps @ 2282 ftlbs Compared to a .30-06 165grb interbond (btsp not available in terms of data) @100yds = 2597fps @2470 ftlbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DBaker Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Marlin 336 What is the difference between the 336 A, C, W? Also, What power scopes should I been looking at to put a top a 336? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron buck Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Not sure what the letters stand for, but as for a scope.....I have a Nikon prostaff 2-7x on my 336 CS in 35 Remington. It works well, is small & compact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
too_pointer Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I have the same Nikon Pro-Staff, and I am really pleased with it. My other Nikons are Buckmasters, I am thinking about buying another Pro-Staff though. Best bang for the buck for me. too_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Guys are right, no such thing as a brush gun Kind of funny in a way, but words and terms people hear and use are sometimes not fully understood and sometimes the meaning is misconstrued as Jeramie points out here. Words and terms for similar things even vary depending on where you are. That in mind think it is intersting that I just saw an advertisement for a "brush gun" scope in a cabelas catalog just yesterday. Check out the fall preview catalog. Guess you are right though that there really is no such thing even though marketing for a major company uses the term too, but does it really make someone wrong for calling something a term they have heard or used forever:confused:??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron buck Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I have to say that there really is such a thing as a brush gun. And that term does not mean you are trying to shoot THROUGH brush. But insteaad, you are usingh a fast hadeling rifle that you can rais & get on target very quickly to get off AIMED shots through openings in tight conditions. A low powered scope or just plain iron sights are well at home in tnese conditions. And a 30-30 lever action carbine fits the bill nicely. A perfect "brush gun" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ky_deerhunter_77 Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 The .30-06 may very well be a (.308, 7.62mm) .30 cal bullet but the case has spawned choices such as, .25-06 .243 .260 .270 .280 .308 .338-06 and that's not even the tip of the iceberg. What are you smoking?? Yes the .25-06, .270, .280, and .338-06 are wildcatters of the .30-06. BUT the .308 is NOT a wildcat of the .30-06 but the .300 Savage. In fact the .260 and .243 are wildcatters of the .308 Notice I called it a .30 cal? The term Bigger was actually meant to imply Energy and velocity, Simple miss wording on my behalf. Notice I also said it was the only deer Ive lost.... That alone states that I'm ethical. Granted there is always the chance that I pulled a shot but when I practice out over 250yds and currently have been shooting out to 350yds, for fun. Chances are I didn't pull a 100yd shot on a doe standing broad side (Solid Rest, zeroed 1" high at 100). The hit was solid, double lung, with a Remington Corelokt. I had her dead to rights but the 30-30 didn't get the job done that day. She bled for hours and hours but never bled out. Translate more energy into a different .30cal and you're better off. Since I have taken numerous 150+ yard shots with a .30-06 and mass increase of energy has yet to fail me. If you lost the doe than how do you know for sure you double lung her?? To have lost her you know a lot of facts. And where did "ethical" come from? Where did Brad go?? Did he get a gun ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeramie Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 What are you smoking?? Yes the .25-06, .270, .280, and .338-06 are wildcatters of the .30-06. BUT the .308 is NOT a wildcat of the .30-06 but the .300 Savage. You are correct. I read up on the .308 this morning. The .308 is infact a .300 savage spawned case. I very much should have double checked that. I would have bet my pay check that it in fact came from the .30-06 but Wilkapedia is on your side. My Appologies.... Proof that you cant always believe what you hear. If you lost the doe than how do you know for sure you double lung her?? To have lost her you know a lot of facts. And where did "ethical" come from? "Ethical leans toward my side when Ive hunted for well over 17 years (for whitetail) and have lost one in that time frame. Ive killed countless deer with any given weapon legal in Oklahoma. In fact I haven't had a dry season since I was a teen. I only take a shot if its broadside or a shot I know fare well I can make. That goes for archery, ml'ers, or Rifle. No equipment, situation, or rush decision should ever replace that. Granted I never found the doe. But her frothy red blood was a pretty good indicator. She was standing broadside when I shot and she was loosing blood from both sides as she bolted off. Chances are good that it was a double lung. I honestly dont see where that is a relatively unsafe assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.