24 & 48 Fail Inspection at Sonoma

[Chrud]

SONOMA, Calif. -- Nextel Cup Series points leader Jeff Gordon and defending series champion Jimmie Johnson, both of the Hendrick Motorsports stable, have failed inspection at Infineon Raceway.

The cars of neither Gordon, the defending race champion, nor Johnson will be allowed to practice or qualify Friday.

NASCAR spokesman Ramsey Poston said both cars "failed the initial inspection ... as a result of body modifications found to be outside NASCAR tolerances. The front fender [of both cars] was modified outside of NASCAR regulations. They did not meet the C2 template inspection."

According to Poston, Hendrick Motorsports' No. 5 and No. 25 cars, for Kyle Busch and Casey Mears, passed inspections.

Poston added, "both teams have an opportunity to repair and resubmit their cars" for inspection by the end of the day Friday. "Assuming they pass inspection, they can practice [saturday] and start at the rear of the field [sunday]," he said.

"It's important to know this is a Car of Tomorrow penalty," Poston said of the short-term severity of the sanction. "The inspection process and NASCAR's response to Car of Tomorrow violations are going to be more severe.

"We're going to keep this car in check. It's important to know all cars in the field are starting out equal and have the ability to win the race."

[toddyboman]

I do not follow Nascar. I know the names but that about it and see highlights on ESPN but I do not follow it.

BUT how do these guys/teams fail inspections? It seems about every other race or so you hear about this. Don't these guys/teams know the inspection is coming; so why do they keep failing??

Are they hoping they just dont get caught??

I don't understand. Can someone shed some light here for me....:confused::confused:

[Gator]

Wonder what kind if any penalty they will get? This could be interesting!!!

[Chrud]

With the old car, there were places where the rules weren't black and white, so you could do things that "isn't in the rule book" but also isn't "illegal". The body would be shaped a certain way, different suspension mounts, and other things to get an advantage. With the new car, the body templates don't allow for any modifications, so I think you'll see a lot more penalties.

With the old car, they weren't doing it and hoping to not get caught. They'd do it because there wasn't a rule that said they couldn't (but there also wasn't anything that said they could).

By all rights, the 24 and 48 should both get at least a 100 point penalty, $100,000 fine and both crew chiefs should be suspended for 6 races. That has been the "usual" suspension for COT's lately. On NASCAR Live Jeff Hammond said he figures the penalties for the 24 and 48 to be worse than that.

[toddyboman]

Thanks for the explanation. I understand now.

[MUDRUNNER]

If they knowingly tried to "sneak one by" then that was a terrible move on their part.You can't be the points leader and take hits in the points like that.Believe me,there are so many rules it is really hard to keep up with.It's tough with mods and late models and cup car rules are way more complicated.With this being the COT and really pretty new rules for the car,the penalty doesn't surprise me,but a front fender being out of tolerance should be pretty basic.

[spyderpancake]

Larry MacReynolds said that they splitter was modified so that it would fit the template at the points where it has to, but between those points was modified to gain downforce...Definitely intentional, and they should both get 100 points, $100,000, and 6 weeks at the minimum, and the way NASCAR has been increasing the penalty with every occurance, i wouldn't be suprised if they got more than that...Especially Knaus, with his history of pushing the envelope. Is he still on probation???

[VermontHunter]

Play with the templates,, and get burned... SIMPLE AS THAT...

But I disagree that they should be penalized any worse than any other team this year... 1st. infraction rule as far as the COT,, so I say give them what other teams have already gotten'...

It wasn't the splitter they played with it was the fender tolerances ... A little too much messaging I would say...

NASCAR spokesman Ramsey Poston said both cars "failed the initial inspection ... as a result of body modifications found to be outside NASCAR tolerances. The front fender [of both cars] was modified outside of NASCAR regulations. They did not meet the C2 template inspection."

http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/cup/06/22/jgordon.jjohnson.sonoma.inspection/index.html

[OJR]

Don't worry, both JG and JJ will be whinning and pointing all sorts of fingers at everyone and they will be totally innocent!

I hope they get hit real hard with point deductions!

[VermontHunter]

Don't worry, both JG and JJ will be whinning and pointing all sorts of fingers at everyone and they will be totally innocent!

I hope they get hit real hard with point deductions!

OH YEAH !! this is really pointing fingers, isn't it.. :rolleyes:

"This is pretty devastating news here at the racetrack," said Gordon, winner of five of the last nine Sonoma events. "You know, let's do something we've never seen done before. That's where I stand. This definitely puts us into a box, and we're going to have to work our way out of it. We have one of the best teams out there, I love the road courses, I brought a great racecar. I'm looking forward at getting out there sometime [saturday] and seeing what we've got for them."

Almost sounds like your the whinner Orlan ... :D Don't worry the Hendrick teams are already prepared for thier fines and point reductions,, it's just a matter of how much...:p

[punkinslinger]

but between those points was modified to gain downforce...Definitely intentional,

Yeah...ok.... you need ALOT of downforce at a road course ...NOT!!!

[Valkrie1357]

Yeah...ok.... you need ALOT of downforce at a road course ...NOT!!!

More here than other tracks,

turning both directions.

This Morning (Sat) The # 20 Car's Left Front Tire was

probably 8" - 12" OFF THE TRACK in practice.

Any track Downforce is important,

but on the Road corses it is very critical.

[dg]

Chad K anus caught cheating? Say it ain't so!:p:p

[VermontHunter]

I need someone to educate me here a little bit on this call made by NASCAR.... I'm just not understanding this infraction...:confused:

If The piece in question wasn't one measured by a car template, how in the world can NASCAR just flat out and deem this a penalty ?? I can see why the Hendrick crews felt safe in tweaking it.

If NASCAR doesn't want any so called gray area's on this COT car then they should be alot more specific in what can and what can't be tweaked.. This process shouldn't be a hit and miss on a weekend basis.. by saying OH we missed this part and now you're getting a penalty .. :confused:

So please someone explain to me how if this part isn't a template part ,,,, how can this be a infraction if the teams aren't aware of the specifics before hand .. ?? .. :rolleyes:

[punkinslinger]

More here than other tracks,

turning both directions.

This Morning (Sat) The # 20 Car's Left Front Tire was

probably 8" - 12" OFF THE TRACK in practice.

Any track Downforce is important,

but on the Road corses it is very critical.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I feel the negative camber that they have to run on both front corners plays way more into it than aero downforce.

[VermontHunter]

Seems I'm not the only one that picked up on this part that isn't covered by an predetermined measurement by NASCAR...;)

Good Ol' Rick Hendrick isn't very happy, and he states a few valid points about these penalties that have already happened and about what penalties are going to happen..

Read all about it....

http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/cup/06/23/jgordon.jjohnson.rhendrick.penalties/index.html

[OJR]

More whinning!! LOL!!!

[VermontHunter]

More whinning!! LOL!!!

Have you anything factual or with substance you would like to state ?? Other than just heckling about things you have no clue on ... :p

[AdvantageTimberLou]

As for the downforce debate its needed anytime you want to go fast. Simple physics. You want to plant the front of the car down as far as you can to the track without dragging the nose and get those front tires to turn with hopes that the back of the car has down force as well to make the car handle good. Those cars are going through some serious cornering both left and right and you want to plant that nose and get good bite off the turn.

As for chamber that plays a crucial role too. You have to play around with what gives the car the best handling and how the tire temperatures look. Too much heat on the inner or outer side of the tread patch and that is not good either.

Its all about balance and with road courses a ton of new ideas get tossed into the equation.

Bottom line, Knauss as of late is the "King of Cheating" LOL!!

I see him and Steve getting a nice vacation out of this deal and a loss of points.

[VermontHunter]

Why isn't anyone addressing the FACT that both the #24 and the #48 passed the template inspection ?? This 10"X10" location on the fender isn't one that is measured by a NASCAR template .. :confused:

To me if NASCAR didn't want any team to play with the fenders they would have made a specific template to measure the whole fender...

This so called infraction can't even be compared to Jr.'s.. where his was replace after he passed through inspection.. If the Hendrick cars were intentionally trying to cheat why would they choose a spot on the car that everyone, especially the inspectors would obviously see ??

I think NASCAR themselves are behind the eight ball with these COT's that this has become a weekend to weekend rule change for them...:rolleyes:

Think about it.... NASCAR even said themselves that the cars passed the Template inspection,, but just didn't like the looks of the fender .. :confused:

CHEATING ?? I don't think so..

[Chrud]

Think about it.... NASCAR even said themselves that the cars passed the Template inspection,, but just didn't like the looks of the fender ..

I agree, they did pass the template and NASCAR just didn't like how the fenders looked. This is a "grey area" type rule that would have got 25 points and $25,000. But to be consistent, it'll be at least 100 points and $100,000, especially with the good finishes. Had they finished back in the 30's, I doubt there would have been much of a fine.

I hate to see what happens when someone actually runs qualifying or the race with a rules infraction. All the penalties this year and not one of them have been post-race. Heck, several have been changed before qualifying or the race (in Junior's case). I just have a hard time understanding why you take away points the drivers earn with legal equipment. I say all these failed inspections on Fridays or before the race should be a major money fine to the crew chief, not a point penalty.

[spyderpancake]

I agree-if they get caught with something that is illegal before they ever qualify or race with it, hit the crew chief's wallet good, let them fix it, and race it and be done with it. However, if the car is illegal post-qualifying or post-race, hit them hard in the wallet and the points. Local tracks don't penalize you for showing up with something that is not up to spec, they make you change it before they let you on the track-NASCAR should be no different. In no way should Jr, Gordon, and Johnson's penaltly be anywhere as severe as Waltrip's, who actually ran with an illegal car....that's my take on it!!!

[VABuckSlayer]

Why isn't anyone addressing the FACT that both the #24 and the #48 passed the template inspection ?? This 10"X10" location on the fender isn't one that is measured by a NASCAR template .. :confused:

To me if NASCAR didn't want any team to play with the fenders they would have made a specific template to measure the whole fender...

This so called infraction can't even be compared to Jr.'s.. where his was replace after he passed through inspection.. If the Hendrick cars were intentionally trying to cheat why would they choose a spot on the car that everyone, especially the inspectors would obviously see ??

If the 24 or 48 weren't trying to get an advantage by tweaking the rules for the fender then how come they are the only ones who have been caught in this area. Surely if this was such a "gray" area somebody else would have been caught doing it by now. They tried to go outside the box with something and NASCAR said NO. The loss of points won't effect them much or the fines or the crew chiefs being suspended. They aren't taking away the points they earned for wins towards the Chase. That would really effect them in the long run if they did that. I'm sure the 24 and 48 will still make the Chase with the 100 point penalty.

Eric

[VermontHunter]

If the 24 or 48 weren't trying to get an advantage by tweaking the rules for the fender then how come they are the only ones who have been caught in this area. Surely if this was such a "gray" area somebody else would have been caught doing it by now. They tried to go outside the box with something and NASCAR said NO. The loss of points won't effect them much or the fines or the crew chiefs being suspended. They aren't taking away the points they earned for wins towards the Chase. That would really effect them in the long run if they did that. I'm sure the 24 and 48 will still make the Chase with the 100 point penalty.

Eric

You see that's just it .. They were trying to gain an advantage..this wasn't ever in dispute, that's what crew chiefs do.. BUT in this case the fenders passed the templates NASCAR hold so highly in regard .. so what was illegal ?? I couldn't have been the fender,, NASCAR passed those on both cars,,, and then later just flat out said they didn't like the way the fenders looked,, so they parked 2 legal cars...:confused:

Lets talk about this so called gray area...... NASCAR themselves even said that this COT car was devised to eliminate this gray area stuff,,, but yet they have nailed 3 of the top cars already this season... so whats that say about NASCARS consistency on messing up ??

Listen if a team is going to cheat, they aren't going to blatantly choose an area that's in full view of the inspectors and anyone else that happens to look....

Now it this tweaking had been done after the inspection process,, I'd say throw the book at them hard,, and I do mean hard.. But this wasn't the case nothing was concealed and there wasn't a written rule against what was changed...

Gaining advantage is what NASCAR was founded on... think on that for abit..

This sport has become a parody of NASCAR goof-ups,, so lets blame the drivers and crews for the short comings...

IMHO,, I think Gordon and Johnson have been penalized enough, not getting to qualify or practice ,,, with legal cars according to the NASCAR templates...

[VABuckSlayer]

I guess we'll find out a little more on exactly what was wrong with the cars when the suspensions are handed out. I can't imagine Knaus only getting a 6 race suspension with how many times he's been caught doing something. I think he should get 12 weeks minimum if not the rest of the season. I don't say that just because I'm not a fan but because the guy has a record. He obviously doesn't care and needs to be taught a lesson somehow. We'll probably find out their fate today.