Choosing a church

[johnf]

Romans 10:: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[f]

Where is the baptism? I think it's very simple. Baptism is something you do in obediance. Things you do are works. Man is not saved by his works, but by the grace of God through man's faith in Him.

[buckee]

Romans 10:: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[f]

Where is the baptism? I think it's very simple. Baptism is something you do in obediance. Things you do are works. Man is not saved by his works, but by the grace of God through man's faith in Him.

That's pretty plain and clear John.

And just for the record...I was Baptized...yep ...full emersion too. I looked at it, as my first confession of faith before men, as well as a symbolic washing away of my sins.

It was quite a few weeks after I was saved. I remember bowing my head at my dining room table, repenting of my sins, and asking Jesus to come into my heart and forgive me. I also remember at that moment, I felt the Holy Spirit rest upon me, and I felt like I had smoked something for about the next 4 days. Blessed me the name of the Lord.

[Guest Turkey Fife]

asdf

Your still not answering questions, till you do, you don't have and open mind. Ask me any bible question you want regarding salvation, you will get and answer. In all fairness, you both know what you have done, you just can't defend what you have done. When it held up to the Word of God. If you have a good heart. The Seed has been planted. It could lay Dormit, it could take off, it could Rot?

[Guest Turkey Fife]

asdf

[26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.(A good place to stop, why didn't he? I'll tell you why, because we need to be baptized into Christ, where all Spirituall blessings are)

[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I WANT TO DRIVE THESE PASSAGE'S INTO YOU MIND, EVERYTIME YOU SEE THEM I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY SAY, STOP AND LOOK, READ THEM, AND READ THEM AGAIN!

WHY?

BECAUSE I WANT YOU TWO SAVED.

[buckee]

I WANT TO DRIVE THESE PASSAGE'S INTO YOU MIND, EVERYTIME YOU SEE THEM I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY SAY, STOP AND LOOK, READ THEM, AND READ THEM AGAIN!

WHY?

BECAUSE I WANT YOU TWO SAVED.

So, are you saying I'm not saved now.

Man ...I have been saved by God's precious grace through Jesus Christ my Lord for the past 20 years.

Did you not read my post above yours ? or do you just like to argue ?

[johnf]

Your still not answering questions, till you do, you don't have and open mind. Ask me any bible question you want regarding salvation, you will get and answer. In all fairness, you both know what you have done, you just can't defend what you have done. When it held up to the Word of God. If you have a good heart. The Seed has been planted. It could lay Dormit, it could take off, it could Rot?

I'm sorry, I honestly don't remember a question. Could you restate it for me.

I've been saved by the grace of God sence Aug. 19, 1990. Thanks for your concern though.

[Guest Easymoney]

Actually, God inspired the same Paul, to tell us in Ephesians 2:11-16 that there is ONE plan for all mankind, no matter our nationality. He makes it abuntly clear in Galatians 3:26-28 - "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

In fact that passage of scripture refutes the whole premise of your post. Paul not only teaches baptism, he says everyone enjoys the same opportunity to receive salvation in Christ Jesus.

I could post many verses where Paul teaches about baptism, he, himself was even baptised immeadiatly when Ananias told him what he "must do" according to the plan teaching of the Lord.

I am aware that some believe that the Jewish nationals have a different plan than that of everyone else, but that is just not the case, they are to obey the same gospel as we are. Which you correctly stated was clearly taught in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

Let's stay with the Word of God, when we take our opinions out of the way and allow the Word to speak for itself, we can understand exactly what God is saying.

Trae

Peter's gospel, called the gsopel of the kingdom or the gospel of the circumcision, was preached to the nation of Israel under the law of Moses. Paul's gospel, called the gospel of grace or the gospel of the uncircumcision, was preached to the gentiles under Grace. Whether we are Jew or Gentile, Paul's gospel is the way of salvation for us in this present age.

Acts is a transitional book.

Be aware that what was good for the Jew under the Jewish aconomy may not be true for gentiles.

The moment we believe for our Salvation the Gospel of Grace, that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead, the Holy Spirit baptizes us and we are saved. Don't put the message that Peter preached and the message that Paul preached in a blender and mix it all up and expect to understand it. That will give you heartburn, and you will never be able to see what you should clearly believe for your Salvation.

[Guest Turkey Fife]

asdf

So, are you saying I'm not saved now.

Man ...I have been saved by God's precious grace through Jesus Christ my Lord for the past 20 years.

Did you not read my post above yours ? or do you just like to argue ?

Well at least you understand that I think you are LOST! I don't mean to COLD, and a know it ALL. But, I do want you to know that their are other options you have to believe about the Bible. I was a Baptist it took me a long time to break FREE of the hold of Once Saved Always Saved, Faith Only,The indewling of the HS. It didn't happen over night. It took a lot of LOVE and Teaching! Good Luck to you, May you find the Truth and Sell it Not!

[johnf]

Well at least you understand that I think you are LOST! I don't mean to COLD, and a know it ALL. But, I do want you to know that their are other options you have to believe about the Bible. I was a Baptist it took me a long time to break FREE of the hold of Once Saved Always Saved, Faith Only,The indewling of the HS. It didn't happen over night. It took a lot of LOVE and Teaching! Good Luck to you, May you find the Truth and Sell it Not!

Sounds to me like you let go of some truths. I was not born into the Baptist beliefs. I was born into a non-chritian religion and came to Christ through much prayer and study of God's word. After spending about 3 years studying different churches doctorine I found that the baptist were closest to what the bible teaches.

We'll have to kindly disagree on these points.

Just a thought to ponder.

"If I'm right and you're wrong, we're all ok. If your right and I'm wrong.................................well, I'm still ok.

[Guest Turkey Fife]

1200 Plus Lookers )

I don't want to see this thread die!

You never know when the Seed/Word of God will fall on a Good Heart, in /Good Soil, will take Root. The Bible teaches some Plant, Some Water, but God gives the increase. You never know I could pass away and still someone a year from now might be saved.

The Bible teaches that Christ must have all Power/Athority he died for all of Mankind to free us from Sin. Many people want God but don't want the church, Why? Because we as humans are Weak and Sin, hurt fellings, Want our Way. It takes money for a church to surive, Elec., Water, Gas, The Building itsself. And all the Lord asks is we give as we have been prospered he wants a chierfull giver. People think all the money go's to a preacher, not true in the Lords church. The Lord id the Head of The Church, the Savior of the Body which is the Church. Christ wants First Place of Honor we give him that when we Name the church after him.

Does anyone think Christ would be pleased if we called the church The church of Satan? Jesibells Church? How about just The Church? You can't seprate Christ from the church, it will die.

I will share more soon!

[johnf]

I don't want to see this thread die!

You never know when the Seed/Word of God will fall on a Good Heart, in /Good Soil, will take Root. The Bible teaches some Plant, Some Water, but God gives the increase. You never know I could pass away and still someone a year from now might be saved.

The Bible teaches that Christ must have all Power/Athority he died for all of Mankind to free us from Sin. Many people want God but don't want the church, Why? Because we as humans are Weak and Sin, hurt fellings, Want our Way. It takes money for a church to surive, Elec., Water, Gas, The Building itsself. And all the Lord asks is we give as we have been prospered he wants a chierfull giver. People think all the money go's to a preacher, not true in the Lords church. The Lord id the Head of The Church, the Savior of the Body which is the Church. Christ wants First Place of Honor we give him that when we Name the church after him.

Does anyone think Christ would be pleased if we called the church The church of Satan? Jesibells Church? How about just The Church? You can't seprate Christ from the church, it will die.

I will share more soon!

So I take it that you are "Church of Christ"

[ryan1990]

So I take it that you are "Church of Christ"

Well that would certainly explain why he thinks you 2 arent saved. haha

[Guest Turkey Fife]

asdf

I am a Member of The Church, The One you can read about in the Bible. The One Christ died for. It's also called the Bride of Christ, The Way, The Church of the First Born, The Church of God, Their are many names we can call The Church, but how many give Christ the HONOR? By the Name they wear?

And then we MUST abide in the Doctrine of Christ. Will the LITTLE things we do separate us from Heaven? I Pray not, but the Lord cannot lie or play favors. Do you remember Uzah, all he did was touch the Arc of the covenate God had told them how He wanted it done but, He tryed to help(I have a hard time with this one)

What about Eve, just told NOT to eat the Fruit. Was that such a Bad thing?

Their were two men Odab and abyhuh who offered Strange Fire and were struck dead.

The their were the two who lied about the land they sold in Acts were struck Dead.

We should do the very best we can to serve the Lord and Worship him the way He wants us to. Can we do everything perfect "NO WAY" As the Bible should we continue to sin that Grace may abound? "No way" When you are shown a better way, unless you just can't get it I think we should pay attention. After all the Bible says we entertain 'un-aware, LoL I for sure am NO Angel ) However I think that is the kind of Attutide we should have.

Always Looking!

[buckee]

All I have to say to you, is may the Lord forgive you, for saying I am not his child. Who are you, that you would even know, and who are you, that passes judgment on my salvation, and my relationship with my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

May God have mercy on you.

[Dawg]

All I have to say to you, is may the Lord forgive you, for saying I am not his child. Who are you, that you would even know, and who are you, that passes judgment on my salvation, and my relationship with my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

May God have mercy on you.

A BIG AMEN TO THAT!!!!!!! Good post Buckee!! I said this in another part of the forum but I'm gonna say it again, if some folk (including those of us who think we are holier than thou) would spend more time focused on OUR walk and relationship with the Lord, this world would be a lot better off. Christians today should not argue and fuss. In doing so, we waste the time that God has given us to spread His Gospel.

Gator, if all of this hasn't turned you away, there is really NO ONE who can tell you what church to go to except God. Seek His instruction ALWAYS!

The Word of God tells us all to work out our own salvation with FEAR AND TREMBLING.

As Peter said, it is better for us to obey God than men.

[johnf]

This is from an earlier post of mine and I stand by it as truth.

The body of Christ has many parts and many functions. Just because we may sprinkle, dunk, speak in toungs, raise our hands and dance in the isles, or sit quietly in a pew, doesn't mean we are more or less Christian than the next guy. God gave us all those denominations because we each need something different from Him. As long as they teach the only way is through your personal relation with Jesus Christ, then everything else is gravy.

God Bless, and I'll pray that he puts you in the right place for you and yours.

jf

Rom: 12:3-83For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 4Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his[b]faith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

[buckee]

When I do work for the Lord in any capacity, I do so not to earn my salvation, but I do it because I am already saved. I am saved from sin by his grace through his blood, and will not trade the baptism of the Holy Spirit for a bucket of water. I am a child of God, because I believe in Jesus. Everything from his birth, to his sacrifice for me on the cross, to his bodily resurrection . Gods true church doesn't have walls, it doesn't have a distinctive title, other than Christian, and it is made up of those who believe and have been saved by his loving grace.

This thread has gone way off track, and yet, I believe God's love and truth can still be seen, if you are looking. The Kingdom of God isn't a secret society or a certain church, The Kingdom of God is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in your heart, mind and soul. The body of Christ has many parts, and I'm just a nose-hair. But even a nose-hair has a function in the body.

[Guest Turkey Fife]

asdf

The body of Christ has many parts and many functions. Just because we may sprinkle, dunk, speak in toungs, raise our hands and dance in the isles, or sit quietly in a pew, doesn't mean we are more or less Christian than the next guy. God gave us all those denominations because we each need something different from Him. As long as they teach the only way is through your personal relation with Jesus Christ, then everything else is gravy.

With all due Respect, What I see you saying is As long as we believe in Jesus we can Worship how we feel FREE to do.

I Hope you are right, I wish you were right, however it seems like we are missing something here.

I don't believe you are saying God has MANY different Plans of Salvation.

[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Something to Ponder, Why do you think these were told to depart? They had Taught in Jesus's name, Cast Out Devil's in Jesus's name, Done MANY Wonderful works in Jesus's name, Still they were told to Depart. I just want to be a WISE Man and build on the Rock. I know Jesus is our Rock!

But how can God say he cannot Lie. And Tell us how to be saved and how to Worship him and Treat everyone the same?

He Thru his Word has plainly taught that Baptism is a Imersion. That the Lords Supper is to be taken on the First day of the Week and we are to use Fruit of the Vine and Un-leaven Bread. We are to Pray and Give of our means. Sing and Teach others about Christ. Worship on the First day of the Week, Ect.

And you are saying we can do How, When, and Where as we like and God will be pleased?

God told Noah to build an Ark out of Goffer Wood! Do you think it would have Floated if he would have used PINE?

God told Naham to Dip 7 Times in the River Jordan, do you think he would have been made Clean by doing it 3 Times?

Has God Changed?

[buckee]

I don't believe you are saying God has MANY different Plans of Salvation.

I'd appreciate it if you would stop putting words in peoples mouths, and mis-interpreting what they say.

[johnf]

With all due Respect, What I see you saying is As long as we believe in Jesus we can Worship how we feel FREE to do.

I Hope you are right, I wish you were right, however it seems like we are missing something here.

I don't believe you are saying God has MANY different Plans of Salvation.

[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Something to Ponder, Why do you think these were told to depart? They had Taught in Jesus's name, Cast Out Devil's in Jesus's name, Done MANY Wonderful works in Jesus's name, Still they were told to Depart. I just want to be a WISE Man and build on the Rock. I know Jesus is our Rock!

But how can God say he cannot Lie. And Tell us how to be saved and how to Worship him and Treat everyone the same?

He Thru his Word has plainly taught that Baptism is a Imersion. That the Lords Supper is to be taken on the First day of the Week and we are to use Fruit of the Vine and Un-leaven Bread. We are to Pray and Give of our means. Sing and Teach others about Christ. Worship on the First day of the Week, Ect.

And you are saying we can do How, When, and Where as we like and God will be pleased?

God told Noah to build an Ark out of Goffer Wood! Do you think it would have Floated if he would have used PINE?

God told Naham to Dip 7 Times in the River Jordan, do you think he would have been made Clean by doing it 3 Times?

Has God Changed?

You know there's not a single thing here that I disagree with. You are absolutley right. There is only one way to salvation.

Belief in Jesus Christ.

[BamaTrae]

Be aware that what was good for the Jew under the Jewish aconomy may not be true for gentiles.

The moment we believe for our Salvation the Gospel of Grace, that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead, the Holy Spirit baptizes us and we are saved. Don't put the message that Peter preached and the message that Paul preached in a blender and mix it all up and expect to understand it. That will give you heartburn, and you will never be able to see what you should clearly believe for your Salvation.

2 Peter 3:14-16 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Peter considered ALL of Paul's epistles for Jew and Greek alike!!!!!!

Gentiles are "grafted in" to the same tree, or family of faith. There is no separation between Jew and Greek anymore. That ended with the old law.

Romans 11

1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”?[a] 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.[c] But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“ God has given them a spirit of stupor,

Eyes that they should not see

And ears that they should not hear,

To this very day.”[d]

9 And David says:

“ Let their table become a snare and a trap,

A stumbling block and a recompense to them.

10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,

And bow down their back always.”[e]

Israel’s Rejection Not Final

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[f] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:

“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,

And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

27 For this is My covenant with them,

When I take away their sins.”[h]

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

34 “ For who has known the mind of the LORD?

Or who has become His counselor?”[i]

35 “ Or who has first given to Him

And it shall be repaid to him?”[j]

36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

Trae

[johnf]

2 Peter 3:14-16 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Peter considered ALL of Paul's epistles for Jew and Greek alike!!!!!!

Gentiles are "grafted in" to the same tree, or family of faith. There is no separation between Jew and Greek anymore. That ended with the old law.

Romans 11

1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”?[a] 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.[c] But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“ God has given them a spirit of stupor,

Eyes that they should not see

And ears that they should not hear,

To this very day.”[d]

9 And David says:

“ Let their table become a snare and a trap,

A stumbling block and a recompense to them.

10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,

And bow down their back always.”[e]

Israel’s Rejection Not Final

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[f] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:

“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,

And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

27 For this is My covenant with them,

When I take away their sins.”[h]

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

34 “ For who has known the mind of the LORD?

Or who has become His counselor?”[i]

35 “ Or who has first given to Him

And it shall be repaid to him?”[j]

36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

Trae

I'm not sure what you're getting at there Trae. Honestly, I'm missing your point. Would you eleaborate.

[BamaTrae]

I'm not sure what you're getting at there Trae. Honestly, I'm missing your point. Would you eleaborate.

I was answering "Easymoney" because his post is acerting an opinion that there are two plans of Salvation, one for the Jew and one for the Gentile. I posted previously and this post was a rebuttal of that line of thinking. My post is nothing more than an attempt to show that the New Testament is complete, and there is one plan for everyone. And that is through Jesus Christ.

Trae

[Guest Turkey Fife]

asdf

2 Peter 3:14-16 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Peter considered ALL of Paul's epistles for Jew and Greek alike!!!!!!

Gentiles are "grafted in" to the same tree, or family of faith. There is no separation between Jew and Greek anymore. That ended with the old law.

Trae: Good Point! You Proved what I knew but didn't know how to (Prove) Thanks

[johnf]

I was answering "Easymoney" because his post is acerting an opinion that there are two plans of Salvation, one for the Jew and one for the Gentile. I posted previously and this post was a rebuttal of that line of thinking. My post is nothing more than an attempt to show that the New Testament is complete, and there is one plan for everyone. And that is through Jesus Christ.

Trae

K, I can go with that.