Choosing a church

[Guest eliteone74434]

Too all that wants to argue that Mr Armstrongs Teachings and the church he lead was a cult can stop doing so. due to the fact that ANY Church can be defined as a cult. This definition was taken from Dictionary.com of Cult.

cult [kuhlt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3.the object of such devotion. 4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. 5.Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols. 6.a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. 7.the members of such a religion or sect. 8.any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific. –adjective 9.of or pertaining to a cult. 10.of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.

The Above Definition shows that ANY Religious Person is a part of a Cult. Baptist=Cult, Mormon=Cult, Protestant=Cult.

The word Cult is a WORD......... And it can be construed ALL THE TIME As BAD. or Good.

Just because ftgbowhunter has a difference in opinion about how he believes vs. how you believe doesn't give you the right to say Hey your a Member of a cult.. Cause Your a member of a Cult to in some peoples Eyes. ftgbowhunter didn't say your part of a cult and insult your religion. he just stated, that He believes hes right and true in his belief. and I have to say he is probably 95% right or more. I believe the same way he does and Heres what i always ask myself when someone says your wrong to me. And i always ask them as well. You see everyone in the world thats "religious" wearing or saying WWJD "What would Jesus Do" Well Jesus Kept the 7th Day Sabbath, He Kept the Religious Holy Days, Trumpets, Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles, Passover. NOT Easter, Christmas, or Any other pagan Holiday that has been converted to Religious by the Catholic Church. I'm not saying this off the top of my head You do the research and see who made these Sun God Worship Days and Easter A Religious Day. NOT GOD but MAN. Every Religion has some things right and a lot wrong but I stand by what Ftgbowhunter says is true. Because he follows what the bible says. and hears what a man says. and then Confirms it with the bible and if it doesn't match up with what a man says then Guess what FOLLOW GOD. Not a man. Mr. armstrong was a man and was not perfect, he taught a couple of things that didn't make sense and what he didn't make sense on he doesn't follow. Like the healing doctrine that Mr Armstrong taught. All in all what mr armstrong was used for is to spread the word of God thruout the world and he did in a miraculous way. I hope that anyone that reads this will ask themselves and really do what they ask WWJD And do it. Cause Jesus and God would not keep christmas, or easter, he wouldn't go to Church on Sundays and call it his sabbath. He would keep the sabbath on the 7th Day like its instructed by GOD forever. read your bibles people don't listen to 1 man listen to God thru his word and you will understand if you ask god for guidance and not a man. So to the original poster of this Thread. You don't have to attend church at a social gathering you can sit at home with a bible and your family and read out of it from chapter to chapter and Pray to god to guide you and your family to understanding. I will keep you and your family in my prayers that you will seek god's advice first and Not worry about what people post here. Just put your faith in God and Let him open your eyes to the truth. I did and My life has turned a 180 and My life has be Blessed since.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post i know its lenghty but i hope i got all my points across to the Cult caller and To the original poster that I wanted to.

Kevin

[MadHuntinPastor]

Lots of great advice hear. Keep in mind that not all churches are the same. One Baptist church could be great and the next could be dead, one Assembly of God church powerful and the other a drag. The Bible says that we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. It isn't easy and will be a process. I like what was said ealier about searching the scripture on your own. This is a practice that should never stop no matter what church you go to. Churches, people, and pastors will all fail you, but Christ will never leave you nor forsake you. Find a church that someone you trust goes to and start their. Ask lots of questions and you have a huge sounding board on this forum. Please feel free to ask or PM me any questions.

Salvation is as easy as confessing our sins and He is faithful and just to forgive of us our sins!!

[Dawg]

Lots of great advice hear. Keep in mind that not all churches are the same. One Baptist church could be great and the next could be dead, one Assembly of God church powerful and the other a drag. The Bible says that we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. It isn't easy and will be a process. I like what was said ealier about searching the scripture on your own. This is a practice that should never stop no matter what church you go to. Churches, people, and pastors will all fail you, but Christ will never leave you nor forsake you. Find a church that someone you trust goes to and start their. Ask lots of questions and you have a huge sounding board on this forum. Please feel free to ask or PM me any questions.

Salvation is as easy as confessing our sins and He is faithful and just to forgive of us our sins!!

I was thinking the same thing!! When Peter was told not to teach or preach in the name of Jesus, he said that it was better for him to obey God rather than man. The Bible is the ONLY true foundation in this world, not the church I pastor, the church you attend, or anyone's else's, it's the Word of God that gives us life, it's the Word of God that will lead us down that strait and narrow and it is the Word of God that will keep you right in the sight of God!

[Guest swampfox]

In The Dictionary of Theological Terms by Alan Cairns the entry under Cult reads,

Latin cultus, “worship”; etymologically, a system of religious worship, homage, or devotion. Theologically, it is used of those systems that profess to be Christian but that are antagonistic to the basic doctrines of Scripture, as for example, Mormonism, Russellism, etc.

Inherent in cult worship is the elevation of some authority to or beyond an equality with Biblical revelation. Frequently, this takes the form of some special revelation claimed by the cult leader or some peculiar interpretation of Scripture that is binding on the adherents of the cult. The natural result is either a denial of Biblical authority, tacit or expressed, or a practical embargo on the freedom to ascertain or accept what the Bible teaches. Cults are naturally exclusive. Usually truth belongs to them alone. Salvation is found in them alone. They identify themselves as the church.

Thus a cult is, in effect, idolatry posing as Christianity, for whatever protestations are made to the contrary, worship based on a repudiation of fundamental Bible truth is idolatry.

Eliteone says, "ftgbowhunter didn't say your part of a cult and insult your religion." However, ftgbowhunter said, "you along with many people in this world are deceived...Someday the truth of god will be open to you and to this whole world again. Wait you will see... the sunday churches are led by satan."

I think I can speak for most Protestants when I assert that when someone accuses all Christians (who are outside of Armstrong's fold) of being deceived followers of Satan, this tends to be offensive.

I have asserted that Armstrong departed by a wide margin from the core beliefs of Christianity. And his followers believe that they have a monopoly on salvation and the truth as evidenced by ftgbowhunter's and Armstrong's statements. This makes Armstrong and his followers a cult. Seeing their danger, Armstrong's own church repudiated many of his teachings after his death.

As to sabbath keeping, believer's since the resurrection of Christ have worshipped on the Lord's day (1st day of the week, i.e. Sunday) rather than the sabbath (Saturday). I again refer you to Kingdom of the Cults where Martin amply discusses the issue. While Constantine did much in polluting the church, he did not introduce Sunday worship. He enforced the observance of Sunday as the Lord's day making it illegal to work on that day, but he did not commence the observance of Sunday worship. Sunday (Lord's day) worship sad been practiced throughout the early church since the resurrection.

[Guest COACH J.]

In The Dictionary of Theological Terms by Alan Cairns the entry under Cult reads,

Latin cultus, “worship”; etymologically, a system of religious worship, homage, or devotion. Theologically, it is used of those systems that profess to be Christian but that are antagonistic to the basic doctrines of Scripture, as for example, Mormonism, Russellism, etc.

Inherent in cult worship is the elevation of some authority to or beyond an equality with Biblical revelation. Frequently, this takes the form of some special revelation claimed by the cult leader or some peculiar interpretation of Scripture that is binding on the adherents of the cult. The natural result is either a denial of Biblical authority, tacit or expressed, or a practical embargo on the freedom to ascertain or accept what the Bible teaches. Cults are naturally exclusive. Usually truth belongs to them alone. Salvation is found in them alone. They identify themselves as the church.

Thus a cult is, in effect, idolatry posing as Christianity, for whatever protestations are made to the contrary, worship based on a repudiation of fundamental Bible truth is idolatry.

Eliteone says, "ftgbowhunter didn't say your part of a cult and insult your religion." However, ftgbowhunter said, "you along with many people in this world are deceived...Someday the truth of god will be open to you and to this whole world again. Wait you will see... the sunday churches are led by satan."

I think I can speak for most Protestants when I assert that when someone accuses all Christians (who are outside of Armstrong's fold) of being deceived followers of Satan, this tends to be offensive.

I have asserted that Armstrong departed by a wide margin from the core beliefs of Christianity. And his followers believe that they have a monopoly on salvation and the truth as evidenced by ftgbowhunter's and Armstrong's statements. This makes Armstrong and his followers a cult. Seeing their danger, Armstrong's own church repudiated many of his teachings after his death.

As to sabbath keeping, believer's since the resurrection of Christ have worshipped on the Lord's day (1st day of the week, i.e. Sunday) rather than the sabbath (Saturday). I again refer you to Kingdom of the Cults where Martin amply discusses the issue. While Constantine did much in polluting the church, he did not introduce Sunday worship. He enforced the observance of Sunday as the Lord's day making it illegal to work on that day, but he did not commence the observance of Sunday worship. Sunday (Lord's day) worship sad been practiced throughout the early church since the resurrection.

The dictionary aint my bible! God didnt write it..

[Guest eliteone74434]

You know swampfox,

Its really sad that when A person that is lost asks a question to a Forum about religion and where to attend church and People give there opinion (ftgbowhunter) just stated you should read a booklet something small informative about reading the bible, and to get a person started on there own journey into learning how to be a Better christian. and You had to start this whole thing off with Armstronginism. And a Cult. Let me first apologize to you for even going to that level to try and disprove you and how you believe. Your entitled to your opinion and I'm sorry Gator for you asking such a Simple question to a forum and it had to come to this kind of response. yes we are all human and we do get offended by other peoples opinions and Well we can let our human side get the best of us sometimes, i certanly did. Well To all posters and readers to this thread i'm sorry if I had offended anyone and To Gator the answer you asked is not found on a web forum, it lies in your own walk with god and if you pray and seek god first you will find your answers.

[Guest bonekelektr]

:)In my personal experience, God led me to the church I go to now..Just stay with a church that goes by Gods Holy Word and salvation thru our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ..If you have to force yourself to go or think twice about going to services you're in the wrong place...

[razortec_hunter]

I'll keep it very simple... If the church you find does not teach right out of the Bible, word for word, chapter by chapter,...LEAVE and find one that does!

amen! we worship at home with my family cuz we cant find on that goes straight from the good book.

[Ravin R10 man]

We just became members of Salem Baptist in Ashland, this past Sunday...Pastor's sermon could almost be read right from scripture...AWESOME!!!!

[Guest Turkey Fife]

My first post here...

Their is and another option. What if you went to Jersamlem many years ago? You asked where is the church. They said around the cornor in Simon Peter's house. What if you did that same thing today? They would say Which one are you talking about. I believe you can be apart of that same church that Jesus built. I want to worship like Paul, Peter, John, James, Lyida. If we worship like they did we can be assured of being Added to the same church they were added to Acts 2:47 If Not? Why Not? We have the bible that was written by them and it tells us how they Worshiped. Would not God be happy with our Worship of Him? More later if they don't kick me off!

[ryan1990]

Wat part of Oklahoma do you live in? My dad pastors a great church in Midwest City. If you wouldnt mind taking the drive Im sre you would not be dissapointed. It is non denominational. You may have seen it on tv. We do a show on TBN and ION. It is Cornerstone Church. The new show on ION is call "Unfiltered". Pator Ron Mckey. Here is the website www.cornerstone.tv Check us out!!

[Guest Turkey Fife]

About the Lord's church

If we Worship as the others did our Worship shold be acaptaible to God. Not all Worship does God execpt. How did they Worship? Sing, Prayed, Give, Took the Lord's Supper and had preaching. The Mission of the church is to save souls. And to help people and help them too feel good. (Edifiy)

[Guest Turkey Fife]

More about The church

The church is the called out. Called out of what? The world of Sin. Is all Worship pleasing to God? No! We must Worship him in Spirit and Truth. When we use the Word of God and do the things the Bible teaches we are Worshiping in Spirit and Truth. Not everyone that says unto him Lord, Lord shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, ONLY those who do his WILL Matt. 7:21 What is his WILL? He wants us to believe, Believe what? That Jesus is the Son of God. MANY would stop their. But we are told to REPENT(change) Also we are told to Confess. Confess What? That we sinned? He knows we are sinners, all have sinned, We to Confess that Jesus is the Son of God to the World, We are to be Baptised into Christ where all Spirituall Blessing are, and He will ADD us to his church Acts 2:47 we are not voted into a church we are added to Christ's church by Christ Himself see Acts 2:47. More Later

[johnf]

I would go with your neighbor, any Christian church is better than none.

Read the passages that everyone else has mentioned and meditate and pray for understanding of them.

Go to many denominations and find out what they believe and more importantly, why? Any good preacher should be able to tell you why he believes what he does. If he just says "the bible says" don't believe him and don't trust him. MAKE HIM SHOW YOU!! or tell you the specific scripture.

Get in touch with the paster of each church you attend and get the doctorine from him. If he says "the bible is our doctorine" beware. Not that it's wrong, it's 100% right, but the bible can and has been distorted by thousands of men with both good and bad intentions.

Take what you learned from reading and mix it with the docternal beliefs of the denomination to decide what kind of church you want to make your home.

Finally start visiting churches of that denomination and make one your home.

The body of Christ has many parts and many functions. Just because we may sprinkle, dunk, speak in toungs, raise our hands and dance in the isles, or sit quietly in a pew, doesn't mean we are more or less Christian than the next guy. God gave us all those denominations because we each need something different from Him. As long as they teach the only way is through your personal relation with Jesus Christ, then everything else is gravy.

God Bless, and I'll pray that he puts you in the right place for you and yours.

jf

[Guest Turkey Fife]

Denominations?

Denominations? The word itself means a part of a Whole. Like a Penny, Nickle, Dime is a part of a Dollar. Christs church is not a part of a whole it is the WHOLE thing. Christ being the head Col. 1:18 the Body/church is the people. We have missed that up, man thinks we can please God by doing what we want. We please God by doing what He want and how He said to do it. We have examples of how the church Worshiped, how can we go wrong by doing it that way? We have the scriptures of how they Worshiped. And they tell us to Study to show ourselves approved unto God a worker that need not be ashamed. 2 Tim. 2:15 Do we need a preacher to tell us how to think?

Here is some common sence: Say 3 or 4 of us get together and Find a 300 pound man and Baptize him(Would it do that 300 Lb, man any good?) I think we can agree it would not! How about a 200 Pound man?(would it do him any good? (Nah)

What about a 100 Pound man( you say NO WAY Right?)

Now what about a 10 Pound man? He is Screaming his Lungs out. He don't want to be baptized. But we are going to do it anyway. Did it do him any Good?

By that same reason of Logic, if it did the 10 pound man any good? We need to baptize EVERY Man and Woman alive. If Not? Why, Not

Do you understand that kind of thinking? If you were baptized as a Baby you won't want to understand it, but its the Truth and you need be told. Truth does not change whither I like it, or you like it, Truth is Truth!

[johnf]

Denominations? The word itself means a part of a Whole. Like a Penny, Nickle, Dime is a part of a Dollar. Christs church is not a part of a whole it is the WHOLE thing. Christ being the head Col. 1:18 the Body/church is the people. We have missed that up, man thinks we can please God by doing what we want. We please God by doing what He want and how He said to do it. We have examples of how the church Worshiped, how can we go wrong by doing it that way? We have the scriptures of how they Worshiped. And they tell us to Study to show ourselves approved unto God a worker that need not be ashamed. 2 Tim. 2:15 Do we need a preacher to tell us how to think?

Here is some common sence: Say 3 or 4 of us get together and Find a 300 pound man and Baptize him(Would it do that 300 Lb, man any good?) I think we can agree it would not! How about a 200 Pound man?(would it do him any good? (Nah)

What about a 100 Pound man( you say NO WAY Right?)

Now what about a 10 Pound man? He is Screaming his Lungs out. He don't want to be baptized. But we are going to do it anyway. Did it do him any Good?

By that same reason of Logic, if it did the 10 pound man any good? We need to baptize EVERY Man and Woman alive. If Not? Why, Not

Do you understand that kind of thinking? If you were baptized as a Baby you won't want to understand it, but its the Truth and you need be told. Truth does not change whither I like it, or you like it, Truth is Truth!

[Guest Turkey Fife]

I just want to say thanks to all for reading

Some here could get the wrong impression of what I say. First I am a Christian, Husband, Father and a Hunter.

I am retired, not a great wrighter, speller or very educated at all. The most I have studied any book is the Bible. I feel it is the one thing that can help me learn of God and his ways.

Their are some simple things that I have learned from other people in years that I would like to impart to anyone who will believe.

One of the simplest things in the Bible is that Baptism Saves. Most people have a real problem with that. Because the way they were taught. I Peter 3:21 says it saves Plain and Simple, Peter says so! If not? Why Not? Lord willing I will share many simple Truths with you. And if a Bible VS don't teach it NEVER look at another one of my posts!

[BamaTrae]

Hi all, I'm new here, I always wanted to post, but never registered. Just now I had a few hours and I am in! You all make some good points, and I agree that we should find a church that uses the Bible as it's only guide.

Thank you Turkey Fife, I for one have been confused by all the choices of churches. Your post made sense to me.

Trae

[buckee]

In Mark 16:16 Jesus says, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned."

There is more to baptism than meets the eye my friend. Belief in Jesus is first and foremost. Baptism in itself can save no one.

Notice the divine order: (1) Believe + (2) Baptism = (3) Saved. Jesus says that both belief and baptism are required to be saved. But men, at the prompting of Satan, are trying to tell us many other different things that are contrary to what Jesus says. Men have taken what the Lord said, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved," and have changed it in every way possible to suit themselves. The following is what Jesus says and also ways in which man has tried to change what the Lord has said.

1) As we have just seen Jesus says in Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved."

2) There are those who in reality say that, "He that does not believe and is not baptized will be saved," because they say God is going to save everyone. This is the Universalist who says that everyone is going to be saved and no one is going to be lost. We know this is not true because of what our Lord said in Matthew 7:13-14, that many are going to be lost and only few are going to be saved.

3) Then there are others who essentially say that, "He who believes and is baptized will not be saved." They say that no one is going to be saved. This is the Atheist who says that there is not going to be an eternity and that when you are dead, you are like the dog Rover, you are dead all over. But again we know that this is false. We have already seen that few will be saved, but the majority will be lost.

4) Still others imply that, "He who does not believe but is baptized will be saved." These are those who practice infant baptism, but an infant certainly cannot believe. Of course an infant is not accountable but is innocent and is not lost.

5) Then there are also those who essentially say that, "He who believes and is not baptized will be saved." They are trying to tell us that we are saved by faith only and that baptism is not necessary to be saved, but all that you have to do is believe. Again, like the other three, this is contrary to what the Lord has said in Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved." On the day of judgment we are only going to be judged by what the Lord says and not by what we think.

Who are you following? Are you following 1) Jesus, 2) the Universalist, 3) the Atheist, 4) those promoting infant baptism, or 5) those promoting faith only? We can go to heaven only by following what Jesus says and not what man says. Man has changed it every way possible to suit themselves.

[BamaTrae]

Great post Buckee! We ought to start another thread about this. Thank you for your balance!

Trae

[Guest Turkey Fife]

Buckee

Notice the divine order: (1) Believe + (2) Baptism = (3) Saved. Jesus says that both belief and baptism are required to be saved.

I totaly agree with your post. However, their are a few more things the Lord requires also. MK. 16:16 does not mention Repentance, but if we don't repent we will perish Lk. 13:3 also if we do not Confess he will not confess us Matt. 10:10 and Rom. 10:32-33 So do you see how it all fits together?

[buckee]

Buckee

I totally agree with your post. However, their are a few more things the Lord requires also. MK. 16:16 does not mention Repentance, but if we don't repent we will perish Lk. 13:3 also if we do not Confess he will not confess us Matt. 10:10 and Rom. 10:32-33 So do you see how it all fits together?

Knowing what sin is and what Repentance is, is only part of what believing in Jesus means. You also need to believe that Jesus is the lamb of God, who was slain for us, and in our place, to save us from those sins, and you must believe that Jesus was in fact, God, with us, and that after his death and burial, he rose from the dead, walked and talked with many witnesses, and the rose into Heaven.

To say you believe in Jesus, doesn't just mean you believe he exists, it means you believe everything he says, everything he did, everything his Father in Heaven said, and everything his apostles said, since they walked with him, and were taught by him, personally.

Believing is no small word here. :eek:It has a meaning which encompasses every word of God, and hinges on every word of his only "begotten" son, the lamb of God, Emanuel (God with us)

[Guest Turkey Fife]

asdf

John 12:[42] Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

[43] For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Many of the Cheif Rulers Believed, however they would not confess him, I don't believe they were saved do you? Also it looks like to me if you don't Confess Christ before men, he will not Confess you before the Father in Heaven.

[Guest Turkey Fife]

asdf

Acts 8:[27] And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

[28] Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

[29] Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

[30] And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

[31] And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

[32] The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

[33] In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

[34] And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

[35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

[36] And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

[37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

[38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

[39] And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Here is a example of Conversion He mentions Believing, Confession, and Baptism But no Repentance is mentioned, but we know he did, Faith is not mentioned, but we know he had it.

Baptism is where our sins are washed away and we come in contact with the Blood of Christ and then he adds us to HIS Church.

[johnf]

John 3:16 spoken by Jesus himself. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son. That whosoever believeth in Him shall not parish, but have everlasting life.

Those are the words of Christ Himself.

Where does it say in there, and be baptised: and confess: and repent: and..and....and........?