Adjam5 Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 OK...the hidden ball trick was used by a team in a little leauge(10-11 year olds) tournament to end a 1 run game with 2 outs in the last inning. The team and coach is taking on all sorts of negitive comments and remarks concerning that play from other teams and even the some of the tournament officials at the field while the tournament goes on all week. It is a legal play, it is used in the pros( the Mets used it last year) and the play appeared in the college world series too. It is alot to ask for from 10 -11 year olds to guard against this type of play, but at this level of play ALL rules apply. Such as, if the catcher drops the ball on the 3rd strike, runner can take 1st base at own risk. ALL big league rules apply. I have mixed feelings about it, BUT...if it was a legal play( umps did not object, they made the out call) then all is fair in love and baseball right? I am curious at to what others on this board think about the hidden ball trick used in LL. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 I love that play! We used to play a team in our league that was notorious for trick plays. I coached our JV team my first year at the school where I teach now. This one guy used to love trick plays. My favorite (he actually caught one of our kids on it too) was he had his third baseman run to the fence near the dugout and kick the fence screaming "foul ball, foul ball!" then the pitcher would wheel and try and pick off a runner. That's baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddyboman Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 YOU lost a game on the hidden ball trick.....LMBO!!! That would be my response to those that lost. Its legal. A pitcher can not toe the rubber without the ball so..... the runner should not start his lead until the pitcher toes the rubber. I think its great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhine16 Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 A pitcher can not toe the rubber without the ball so..... I think its great. Pitcher cant be on the mound. As long as he wasnt, it's ok. I dont like that one, nor the fake pic to second where the shortstop and second basemen dive and the centerfielder takes off to the fence (have had one of my games end on that note), but they're legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddyboman Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Pitcher cant be on the mound. Exactly. So the runner should not lead off till he gets up on the mound and toes the rubber. If the runner waits he will be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiganbowhunter_SQ2 Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Pitcher cant be on the mound. A pitcher can not toe the rubber without the ball so..... i believe you both are correct.... High School-it is a balk if the pitcher is within 5 feet of the pitching rubber without the ball. College-it is a balk if the pitcher steps onto the dirt of the pitching mound without the ball. Professional-it is a balk if they are on or astride the rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddyboman Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 so again if the coach teaches the base runners to NOT LEAD OFF until the pitcher toes the rubber there is no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted June 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 What exactly happened was ...OH boy this hurts for the losers...loaded bases, 2 outs, top 6 down 1 run. A pitch in the dirt makes the runner on 3rd take a leap towards home, the catcher recovers quickly and throws to 3rd. Runner gets back safe, 3rd base makes the throw motion to the pitcher, pitcher pounds his glove, starts to walk towards mound, runner steps off bag....YER OUT! The coach at 3rd had NO clue what happened( he was really paying atttention huh?) I feel thats its a legal play, and if kids are going to learn the game, learn the game; not just bits of it. The Whole game. Yeah it bites when it happens to you, but it SHOULD only happen once. When it stings you remember. That team is taking some negitive comments for that play from tournament coaches and parents about the fields. Sounds like sore losers to me. I was just wondering what others thought about that play, some say its a bit too cut throat for kids at that level. I say its part of the game. Theres no crying in baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Finn Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 the 3rd base runner didn't pay attention, missed the ball not being thrown back to the pitcher and then leads off before the pitcher is on the rubber...lol Sorry, can't feel bad for him on that one. Hey, I didn't know you could lead off in Little League? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Chief Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Great play. I call that coaching. I think the losing team got out coached and the coach should tell the players that. Too many times kids take it out on themselves and the adults let them. Great call. We used to do the pick off at first trick. Pitcher would throw the ball to me on a pick off move I would catch the ball but pretend I missed it, run around the other side of first, yell help, runner would take off and whammo we had em dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSGB Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Hey, I didn't know you could lead off in Little League? That's what I was thinking. You can't. So, why did the runner get off the base? I have no problem with that play or any other "trick" play. That's baseball, it's a thinking man's game. If you make a mental error, you deserve to pay. I actually like seeing plays like that. We used to have all kinds of them when I played in high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 If the base runner wasn't paying attention, then you can't feel too bad for him. If it's legal I don't see a problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhine16 Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 That's what I was thinking. You can't. So, why did the runner get off the base? There are many many different little league associations and nearly all of em play with different lead off rules. The league that you will see on tv in August can not lead off and that is a 12 and under league. Dizzy Dean (what i played in) did not allow leading off until you were 11. USSSA which is mostly traveling tournament ball starts leading off at 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted June 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 What happened was the ball was still in play from the catchers throw. The 3rd base coach did not call time out, nor did the Ump and the runner stepped off the bag BEFORE the pitcher got to the rubber to start the next pitch. There is NO leading in Little league, at least not in ours. So basically the runner got caught sleeping and so did the ADULT coach for not calling time after the throw back to 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrea Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 No leading off in my son's league either. ( 9 & 10 yr olds) Sounds like a cool play. Would have loved to have seen that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDRUNNER Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 I bet that kid learned his lesson.You've got to know what's going on at all times in baseball.You snooze for a second and you can be out. The league I played in when I was a kid allowed lead offs to all ages( except tee-ball). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 The hidden ball trick? What do I think? It's weak, bush league garbage. The coach who decided to end the game that way is spineless. Even though it may be "legal" what kind of example does that set for the little guys playing in the game? Are you trying to teach them how to take the easy way out and take the path of least resistance in life, or are you trying to teach them values and vitures like sportmanship and hard work? Not to meniton, the losing team who played hard the entire game just got robbed...robbing 11 year olds. They deserved a shot to come back and win by playing baseball, not garage trick plays. I put "Hidden Ball Trick Coach Caller Guy" right up there with "Over Zealous Little League Father Who Agrues Pitch Calls." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Bush. The runner and/or the 3rd base coach should have been paying more attention but, that play is just bush all the way around especially in Little League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted June 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 The coach who decided to end the game that way is spineless. Let me make this clear...I am NOT the coach:) OK? I am the father of one of the kids on the winning team. I watched it happen. That play came from the kids...the coach did NOT call for that play to happen. Sure it was gone over at practice, but that play was put into motion by the kids only. The defensive coach is in the dugout and you know as well as I do, the confusion that takes place when a ball is in the dirt and the tying run is on and the ball is still live. I give the kids credit for being able to exploit a weakness. Same way when a pitcher has no control and everyone who gets up is taking. Or when the 3rd baseman is playing too far back and you lay down a bunt, to exploit the weakness. Everyone wants to end the game with a walk off grand slam, but sometimes that just don't happen. Games end like this... If you are gonna learn/teach the game...learn/teach ALL of it. Being aware of where the ball is at ALL times is something that should be taught and learned. Thanks for all the views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowJoe Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 I think this all goes back to people trying to make everything in the world fair for their kids. Nobody wants their kids to lose at anything and some act immature and cry and whine about how their kid got cheated simply because they lost. Like I've said a hundred times... Fair is where you buy a quilt and apple pie. I would rather my child learn how to lose fairly and live with the lesson than to win every game and not know what it's like to lose. You can only become smarter by observing and taking notes on what happens to you and those around you. I once saw one of those, "Hide the football in your shirt" plays by a team when I was a Sophmore. One outside linebacker wasn't fooled and he made a great tackle. We were totally fooled until the ref blew the whistle. That same linebacker was one of the smartest guys I knew in school and now he's a Physician's Assistant in the Army National Guard stationed in Germany where they bring most injured soldiers from Iraq on their first stop before taking them state side. He saw what he was told to see by our coaches because they always told our linebackers to watch the guy in the back field with the ball no matter where he goes. That move right there saved us 6 on the scoreboard. Granted he wasn't 11 but football is a heck of a lot more chaotic than a little league game and a lot harder to follow even for some pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSGB Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 There are many many different little league associations and nearly all of em play with different lead off rules. The league that you will see on tv in August can not lead off and that is a 12 and under league. Dizzy Dean (what i played in) did not allow leading off until you were 11. USSSA which is mostly traveling tournament ball starts leading off at 9. Then it is not Little League. Little League is an organization and if you are part of the organization then you have to play by their rules. I know there are different leagues around the country. Across the river in Alabama they have Little League and Dixie Youth. Dixie Youth is not Little League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhine16 Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Then it is not Little League. Little League is an organization and if you are part of the organization then you have to play by their rules. I know there are different leagues around the country. Across the river in Alabama they have Little League and Dixie Youth. Dixie Youth is not Little League. Sorry, I made a mistake there. The "little league" association is the one you will see on tv. I've just always called recreational ball little league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSGB Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Sorry, I made a mistake there. The "little league" association is the one you will see on tv. I've just always called recreational ball little league. No problem. I have friends that do the same thing and it drives me crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.