Freemasons

[Guest Andrea]

What do you guys know about this organization? I have heard conflicting opinions and beliefs.

[Dawg]

I also have heard different views about the freemasons. One thing is certain, they are a secretive group. I don't like to cast an opinion on something I don't really understand, so I can't give an honest answer. I've heard good things like how they help out the communities they are in, and I've heard bad things, like how they are evil and are tryin to rule the world,seriously. Some claim conspiracy, but this is what I have always been told...."Beleive nothing you hear and only half of what you actually see."

That's a question that has the same answer as the Tootsie Pop....The world may never know!!!

[Guest swampfox]

Wikipedia has lots of information about Freemasonry. As for me, it seems inappropriate to be involved in a secretive, ritualistic, pseudo-religious organization. If I could learn more about their beliefs and practices, I could examine them against the Scripture. But being secretive, they are beyond the pale of scrutiny.

Abstain from all appearance of evil. 1 Thes 5:22.

Freemasons say that they mandate belief in a generic Supreme Being. Individuals may call him or her Allah, Buddha, Jehovah, Thor, etc. Why would I, as a Christian, want to associate in pseudospiritual rituals with followers of Thor when the Bible teaches me not to have any spiritual fellowship with them (Eph 5:11)?

[buckee]

Here's a good link for you Andrea.

http://www.whatisfreemasonry.com/

Freemasons, do believe in good works, and they do plenty, but sadly to say, they do not believe in Jesus Christ, and his Grace, afforded us by his shed blood.

[Hoosierbuck]

My church prohibits membership in any "secret organization" in our constitution. Yours might, too, if you look into it.

I do not personally know much af anything about Freemasons or Shriners or any of that, but I do know that the devil is not above doing a lot of good for the greater bad. Same way we often justify doing a little bad thing for the overall good, only backwards.

HB

[Guest Andrea]

I know someone close to me is a freemason but this person says all that we see on tv and read on the internet isn't true.

Still, you have to wonder why they want to be so secretive. I just don't get it.

[Dawg]

Yea, got to wonder why they are so secretive. I've learned now that if you are in their organization, group, cult, whatever it is, when you die they are the ones and only ones that conduct your funeral. I've been to a couple of funerals in which the mason's conducted and it was a little strange. They all had these little white kitchen aprons on or at least that is what it looked like to me, all the palbearers were masons the dude giving the speech was a mason.........very strange. As for me, I only know very little about them as stated in my previous post and I don't entend to know anymore........I know enough now to stay away!!!!!!!!! The Word of God says that whatever is done in secret will one day (judgement day) be brought into the open. I worship the One and only True God, and that's the way it's gonna be!!!

His commandment says "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Jesus says in John 14:6 "I am the way, truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me."

[Missed160]

I have been looking into becoming a mason, and am going to join.

The basic message behind the masons are "men becoming better men through god". The "issue" or arguement against the masons, mainly by the Catholic church, is the use of the word god, not defining god as our Christian god, accepting other beliefs god. So the Catholics split off & created their own organization called__________________ ?? anyone, anyone?

The Knights of Columbus.

The only difference between the two is the definition of God. If you look into either one, you will find the very often share lodges & have many joint events.

The reason I have been interested in becoming a mason: the greatest man I have ever known was my grandfather, the hardest working man I have ever met. Norwegian farmer, always had just an "air of pressence" to him, very proud, simple.... He was a mason. When he died, after the visitation the masons came to conduct their service, I was invited to stay & see the private ceramony conducted by the masons, it was awesome.

Whether or not the masons conduct the ceremony-or hold their own is up the the individual.

The white aprons are symbols of their life. They are very private items, ( we didn't know about it, we were preparing for the funeral at my grandfathers house - a couple masons stopped by & asked us if we had found his apron. We searched for quite a while before we found it.) The aprons are embroidered with special events of each individual with the most important dates/events in their lifes, masonic & personal (ie birth of children)

I have an uncle who is a lutheran minister - mason

There have been 16 presidents, including Washington, Adams, FDR, Truman

31 supreme court justices

Many many of other VP, Senators, Generals....

A more visible part of the masons, though most people don't know they are connected, are the Shriners, and all their charities & hostpitals.

[buckee]

A more visible part of the masons, though most people don't know they are connected, are the Shriners, and all their charities & hostpitals.

Yes, I knew that

The "Reverend" Jesse Jackson is also a freemason.

Yes, there is a long, long list of famous and great man who were/are masons/freemasons both in Canada and the USA and around the world, for that matter.

They do indeed believe in good works. That is to them, their salvation, but there is only one God, and only one saviour, and his name is Jesus.

Don't ever forget that, because in spite of what you will learn from the masons, about your ties and oaths with them being irreversable, the power of Jesus blood is unmatched by any.

This is interesting reading

http://www.bilderberg.org/masons.htm#Dissidents

[popgun]

Freemasonry needs no defense, and therefore I will not waste your time nor mine.

There are many good, informational sites on the Web that you can find out just about anything you want to know about the organization.

I would like to reiterate the word organization.

Freemasonry is not a religion.

It is a fraternal organization much like the Lions Club.

We have no secrets, as you can read all you want to on the web or in books about freemasonry.

There is a lot of negative information out there as well, just as with any other organization that someone does not want to, or hasn’t taken the time to understand.

Not all, but most of the negative I have read on anti-Masonic web-sites sound as though they were written by someone who was possibly rejected for membership in the Masons.

If someone tells you that they were asked to join the Masons but decided not to turn in their petition, they are telling a falsehood.

No one is ever asked to become a Mason.

A man must ask a Mason and submit a petition to the lodge most local to them.

The Eastern Star is an organization that is for the wives of Masons and their husbands to work together for the betterment of mankind.

All Scottish Rite Masons, York Rite Masons, and Shriners are Masons and members of a local lodge, but not all Masons are members of these outside organizations.

The Shriners are sometimes looked upon as a party group within masonry.

There is no drinking in a Masonic Lodge, ever.

Not all Masons are non-drinkers, but being sober is one of the tenants taught in Freemasonry.

One must believe in God to become a Mason, because no tie or obligation can be considered binding to a non-believer in a higher power.

We believe that God created the universe and all that is in it.

There are many unsaved souls that are in the ranks of Freemasonry, just as there are many unsaved souls within your own church fellowship.

I’m sure most Christians remember seeing the man or woman come forward to accept Christ as their Savior, and you thought they were Christians all along.

I will be glad to answer any specific questions regarding the fraternity, but I will not argue.

So far I can answer a few of the misconceptions.

Freemasonry is not a secret organization, but an organization that keeps a few of our teaching tools secret.

A man’s first impression is the most formidable.

When you were a child someone told you that the pot on the stove was hot, and you listened, but you did not learn the pot was hot until you touched it yourself for the first and probably the last time.

The apron worn by the Masons is usually made of white lambskin and is the badge of a Mason.

It is white to symbolize purity, but all Christian Masons know that they are only made pure by the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Masons strive to do good works because that is simply what good Christians and Masons should do, not as a pathway to Heaven.

I can tell you that Charity is paramount in a Mason’s life, but it does not take the place of Christian Worship in the church of your choice.

It is true that the Catholic Church, in times past, categorized Freemasonry as a false religion, and has over the past 50 years or so, recanted.

We are simply not a religion.

There are however, many religious men in freemasonry.

Jessie Jackson is a member of the organization known as the Prince Hall Lodge.

To this date, Prince Hall Lodges are not a part of the Masonic organizations under the Grand Lodge of the United States.

There is nothing in any of the bylaws of any of the Masonic Lodges that prohibit any man from petitioning a lodge for membership, regardless of race or religion, but it is always up to the individual lodge to vote on each candidate, and it must be unanimous.

Politics are never discussed within the lodge.

One must keep an open mind.

If a person truly believes nothing they hear and only half of what they actually see, I can’t help but wonder how they have accepted Christ as their personal Savior.

You have heard of Him and you have read of Him, but you must have faith that He is with you, and a part of your very being.

If there was any appearance of evil within the boundaries of Freemasonry, I would not be a member.

Some Churches will not allow their members to be members of any secret organization, and I can understand that.

When I was in the Boy Scouts I was a member of the Order of the Arrow.

I’m glad I was not kicked out of church, because I was always taught that a Boy Scout was to be reverent.

Again I will say that freemasonry is not a Secret Society, nor a false religion.

There are no ties or oaths within any of the Masonic degrees that are not irreversible.

A mason can withdraw at any time and not be condemned by the members.

If you cannot drop out of your own Church Fellowship without condemnation, you should take a good look and see if you’re possibly in the wrong church.

There are a lot of anti-Masonic websites out there just as there are a lot of informative sites that tell the truth.

You all may ask questions if you wish; I didn’t intend to write a book and I apologize for the long reply.

I have been a Mason for 30 years and I am a 32nd Degree Mason.

I was Master of the Masonic Lodge here in my hometown for two years and Secretary of the lodge for 13.

I will answer all questions to the best of my ability, and will not lie.

If there are any questions that I do not know the answers to, I will simply tell you that I don’t know.

I did not know anything about what it was like to be a Christian, until after I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior, but now I know.

Never in the 30 years that I have been a Mason, has Masonry conflicted with my relationship with Jesus.

….popgun

[Dawg]

Guess we all have our own opinions..............I've talked with FORMER masons..........like I said I know enough to know to stay away.....am I downing you for being one? NO!!! We all draw our own opinions and that just happens to be mine. Like yourself, I choose not to argue about this issue, you have your convictions and I have mine. But I would like to know one thing though, if a person chooses to hold a secret, that's being secretive right? So how can you say you aren't when you have secrets? Why aren't there any windows in a masonic lodge? Why is there a secret hand shake? Why doesn't communities know more about the mason's? I feel if the mason's allowed the community know more about them, post such as this wouldn't be neccessary.

Again, I hold nothing against you or any one that is, was, or is gonna be a mason and my intentions aren't bad, I'm just curious?

Oh, and when I referred to that old sayin "Believe nothing you here and only half of what you actually see." That wasn't a negative comment toward anyone or anything......what it simply means is go into life with an open heart and draw your own conclusions about life.

hogdawg

[popgun]

I think it was discovered many many years ago that we cannot legislate morality.

Freemasonry tries to take only a good man and make him better, by teaching him a system of morality that is illustrated by symbols divulged in the several degrees of Masonry.

The exact manner in which the man is taught is not divulged because the individual would get little from the lesson if he were told ahead of time.

Call it secrecy if you wish.

If you divulged to your wife and children beforehand, exactly what you were giving them for a birthday gift, it would take away much of the joy of the giver as well as the recipient.

Is this secrecy wrong, or immoral, or against Biblical teachings?

In this day and age we live in, there is nothing about the Masonic Lodge that cannot be read about beforehand; but only reading about how the lessons of morality are taught in the Masonic Lodge will not teach the reader the lessons.

It must be experienced.

There are no windows in a Masonic Lodge building because of tradition.

If an eavesdropper were to observe the lessons taught, before experiencing them for himself, he would learn nothing.

Why do so many churches have steeples?

Why do court judges wear black robes?

Why is a sports stadium build in an oval fashion?

The handshake is so that one Mason may know another in the dark as well as in the light.

Without having actually attended the other Mason’s degrees, each can tell by the others grip which degree he holds and how far he has risen up the ladder in Freemasonry.

Masons have their meetings usually posted on a weekly bulletin section of the local newspaper; everyone knows where they meet; many Masons wear rings or lapel pins to denote their membership, and no Mason that I know of, will hide the fact that he is a Mason.

Masonic graveside services are conducted in public, but only by the expressed request of the family of the deceased.

Just like any other organization, you will probably not be able to get a complete membership list because of the privacy act, but we are certainly not hiding.

Whenever there is a special meeting, installation of officers, or community work to be done, it will usually be published in the local newspaper.

I see no secrecy.

I mentioned that politics is never discussed within the confines of the Masonic Lodge, but I should have also mentioned that neither is religion; at least not in denominational aspects. Whether you are a Baptist, Jew, Methodist, Church of Christ, etc.etc. does not matter. (not even a twit)

You must believe in God.

Whether you call Him the Supreme Architect of the Universe, or whether you call Him Jehovah, or your Heavenly Father does not matter.

Communities do know about the Freemasons, but Mason’s do not brag about their philanthropic endeavors.

It is much more rewarding to give of oneself anonymously than to get the rewards here on earth by your fellowman.

If you want to know if a particular man is a Mason or not, just ask him.

If he is a Mason, he will probably answer, “I am”.

....popgun

[BR44]

What are we coming to?? Who in God's name can stand there and bash something based mostly on rumer and falsehoods? YOU mr Buckee, are suppost to be an administrator on this site, and it states at the beginning of the forums "no brand bashing allowed", yet you're making comments as if we are a bunch of devil worshippers.

Let's set some things straight! Freemasonry is an open-NOT secretive, society. Masonic meetings are usually stated publicly. Masonic buildings are clearly marked, with listings in phone directeries. Masons wear jewelry, identifying their membership. Freemasonry inherited a tradition of trade secrets from the cathedral-building guilds of early Europe. The ONLY "secrets" are the traditional passwords, signs of recognition, & dramatic presentations of moral lessons.

Freemasonry is open to all men of GOOD character who believe in GOD. We only except those who are moral & who are upright before GOD, and to maintain that path. YES.... you have probably heard/seen something where something was done wrong, and done by someone that was a Mason. I can guarantee he was dealt with for that inwhich he had done. Look in the paper, watch the TV, everyday you see where a priest/pastor/minister/deacons/elders has committed some type of offense. Should the whole Christian realm be disbanded for it? Nothing bothers me more than someone who quotes lines from the BIBLE to put down another person, organizatio, belief, etc., placing themselves/beliefs better. WE are facing that situation right now. A religon that thinks that Christianity shouldn't exsist, and this extremist religon showed that on 9-11.

Masonry is older than these United States, men who helped guide the way to form these United States were Masons. I can guarantee there are words in the Declaration of Independance that are based from Masonry. If Masonry are of bad men, tell me the following are BAD; Eddy Arnold, Roy Acuff, Buzz Aldrin, Gene Autry, Irving Berlin, Ernest Borgnine, Omar Bradley, Richard Byrd, Ty Cobb, George M Cohan, Wm Clark, Davy Crockett, Norm Crosby, Cecil B deMille, Jack Dempsey, Jimmy Doolittle, Sir Alexander Fleming, Gerald Ford, Henry Ford, Ben Franklin, Clark Gable, John Glenn, Arthur Godfrey, John Hancock, Sam Houston, Hubert H Humphrey, Burl Ives, Andrew Jackson, Al Jolson, John Paul Jones, Rupyard Kipling, Fiorello La Guardia, Charles Lindbergh, Douglas McArthur, George C Marshall, Charles MAYO, Wm McKinley, Arnold Palmer, Dr Norman Vincent Peale, JC Penney, John Pershing, Eddie Rickenbacher, Will Rogers, Roy Rogers, Paul Revere, F D R, Teddy Roosevelt, Red Skelton, John Phillip Sousa, Wm Howard Taft, Harry Truman, George Washington, John Wayne...

Also, those "do things for the community" are more outreaching; Shriners=their fundraising goes toward pediactric Shrine hospitals for children who have been severly burned and those with a defect that hinders their ability to walk correctly. NO government funding, No charges to the family for the operations performed-what so ever. The Scottish Rites, raise $'s for centers to assist children with Dyslexia, many local Masonic lodges are doing CHIP packets (children identification) for when (GOD forbid) a child is abducted/lost, this packet is given to Law Enforcement to help in the efforts of recovery.

I myself, collect $'s to be sent to the Farmers & Hunters Feeding the Hungy, at meal fund raising events, have given meal tickets to the less fortuneit (paid by me) so they may enjoy a nice meal. HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE CONTRIBUTED YOURSELVES FOR THE BETTER OF MANKIND ?? WHO AMONG YOU, WHO THINK FREEMASONRY IS WRONG IN SOME WAY, and that your beliefs are better, WHO CAN STAND BEFORE US RIGHT NOW, AND CLAIM THEY ARE FREE OF WRONGDOING/ S I N what so ever ?? Then place your name at the end of this thread!

With all OUR actions on this planet at this time, I can probably safely say that GOD has is head lowered with SHAME because of US !!

GOD Bless these United States, and protect us from OURSELVES ......

[BR44]

TO further, it is mentioned up above that you know FORMER masons, and they have told you things, well, these FORMERS are more than likely someone who has been expelled from the society. To be expelled, you have committed an immoral action. To say THEY have told you something sends up a red flag. Even those who have left (financial problems, unable to feel beneficial because of business/life commitments, etc...) would NEVER devoldge anything of Freemasonry. So.. if you have heard something, you were misinformed, OR you are just stating falsehoods. If you want to back your claim, give me the name of the person and what state he presides, and I can check to see with that states Grand Lodge on this persons status. If not ---clam it or go somewhere else. I come to these forums to exchange ideas, gain knowledge, pass on knowledge, on hunting, to communicate with my fellow hunter. Look guys/gals, it's this type of throat cutting that has PETA setting by letting us self distruct.

If I wanted to hear a bunch of bashing, I'd go to their site. If you feel the need to BASH, get out of OUR lifestyle and join theirs !!

[popgun]

I would like to remind BR44 that we were going to discuss this subject with honor and dignity, and not enter into argument.

Buckee and Hogdawg were stating their opinions based on their beliefs.

BR44, I will whisper a little good counsel in your ear.

I would like to remind you, “that you are not to suffer your zeal for the institution to lead you into argument with those who, through ignorance, may ridicule it.”

As I stated before; I will make every effort to answer specific questions, but I will not argue or attempt to defend an institution that needs no defense.

….popgun

[Dawg]

I still stand on the fact that we all have our own opinions. If you will read my post, you will see that I have stated that I was not downing or "bashing" anybody for being a mason. Like I said we all have our own convictions. You say you do good things......fine......I believe you, but that doesn't mean I have to believe everything you state. The "religion" that I am part of, which is Baptist, isn't liked by A LOT of folk, but do I argue my beliefs? NO! I am not here to satisfy anyone but God. If people like me or not, it matters little. As long as God is satisfied with me. The Bible declares that no one is righteous, no, not one! I never said or do I believe that I am better than you, because I am not. We all are sinners saved by grace. Sir I do not intend for this to cause problems between you, popgun, or myself. Evidently we have one thing in common and that is hunting, let's not ruin that by going back and forth with this babbling. I respect you and popgun for your efforts to help others. This thread was started by one to hear the "opinions" of others and I have stated my "opinion".

God Bless.

[BR44]

I would like to apologise to those for my tongue lashing, especially to buckee, when I was reading this thread last night, I confused your reply to someone elses, I errored on my part in replying and stating such. All the bickering has got the best of me. What I was saying (yes) in a way probably was in defense, but I am one for bringing out the truth in a manner.

People LYING to persicute someone else. Tunnel visioned people standing tall on their ideals, even when wrong: Example: I was in conversation some time ago on politics (parties), & one person stated "even if this person of this party has committed a particular crime, I still wouldn't vote for someone in that party", I excluded which party was stating what as to not start another conflict. But my point is thus, each day it goes from one thing to another, race, religious beliefs & practices, the cars we drive, & so on. My Question is WHY, are we doing this to ourselves??

[buckee]

Apology accepted

To say THEY have told you something sends up a red flag. Even those who have left (financial problems, unable to feel beneficial because of business/life commitments, etc...) would NEVER devoldge anything of Freemasonry.

So, there are no secrets, but there are secrets...Hmmm OK guys. I'm not going to argue.

I believe in Jesus Christ. My Lord and his apostles (who walked, talked and instructed by him,) warned me not to swear by anything in heaven or on earth. There are no secrets in Christianity. He warns me in his word to stay away from stuff like this.

That's all I really have to say about that.

Well said hogdawg

[popgun]

I thank God every day for those men and women who had the courage and intestinal fortitude to take the following oaths.

....popgun

U.S. Military:

"I, {insert name here}, do solemnly swear, (or affirm), that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God." (Note that the last sentence is not required to be said if the speaker has a personal or moral objection)

Canada Public Officials:

"I, NAME, do Solemnly swear (affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors according to law, forever. So help me God"

"I, NAME, do solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm and declare the taking of an oath is according to my religious belief unlawful, and I do also solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm and declare that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second"

American Citizenship:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

American Court Witness:

"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"

I pledge allegiance to the Flag

of the United States of America,

and to the Republic for which it stands:

one Nation indivisible,

With Liberty and Justice for all.

[buckee]

You read it, and I'll either say, I will, or I won't, and my word is my word.

Jesus said, to let your yes' be yes' and your No's, No's, (in other words, be a man of your word)

"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"

Nothing wrong with saying I do, or I will.

In all the instances you mentioned above, a man is not swearing "by" anything, accept his own word or God's word as his witness. All he is saying is, I will do this and that.

What do you swear by when you make an oath in the masons ? If you break that oath, what are the consequences ?

just curious.

[Guest OHjk]

I have been to one funeral as well and it was just as you describe. I also know one person that is a mason and he never says too much about it, but I can't believe that he would be involved with anything satanic.

[BR44]

Guys guys guys ----What we are trying to get thru to you is the only secrets are like recipes.

Call Coke-Cola, ask them what the ingrediances are, and they will tell you, but ask what the actual measurements are. If I asked who you really are (name), where you live (actual address), phone number, etc, would you give that out ? If our explanasion isn't enough, go for yourself to www.tryfreemasonry.com. To who it was that commented about being Baptist and having a view somewhat negative towards freemasonry= Do you know of a George W Truett ? If not, he is a/was a Southern Baptist Leader and a Mason and this is his quote

"The Masonic Fraternity is one of the most helpfully mediating and conserving organizations among men, and I have never wavered from that childhood impression, but it has stood steadfastly with me through the busy, vast hurrying years".

Hey popgun- thanks, we'll have to get together.

[popgun]

What do you swear by when you make an oath in the masons ? If you break that oath, what are the consequences ?

just curious.

The oaths in Freemasonry are similar to the ones listed above, with one hand on the Holy Bible, and promising before the Lodge and God that you will keep your promises.

The oaths taken in Freemasonry have to do with honesty, integrity, fidelity, duty to your fellowman, and the duties a person owes to God, their country, their neighbor, their families, and themselves.

The penalty for breaking these promises is the same as breaking any promise made to anyone outside of the confines of the Masonic Fraternity. (personal conviction, personal remorse, personal repentance, personal forgiveness.)

Whether a man wishes to seek forgiveness with God is his choice.

In addition to this, there is possibility of a Masonic Trial, with penalties ranging from reprimand to suspension to expulsion from the Lodge for un-masonic conduct.

At the present time, anyone who commits a felony is put on trial through the fraternity, regardless of the outcome of the government or civil case.

Many things are considered against Masonic Law, even though there may be no Civil or Government law against such an act; examples would be drunkenness, infidelity, or speaking evil of a brother Mason, or getting into a fistfight with another Mason.

I hope this answers your question.

....popgun

[buckee]

The oaths in Freemasonry are similar to the ones listed above, with one hand on the Holy Bible, and promising before the Lodge and God that you will keep your promises.

For an example then, what are the oaths you have to take to get you from 1 to say 5 in the fraternity.

It's OK...you can tell me, because I have no intention of ever joining, so you won't spoil any surprises for me.

You can PM them to me if you feel uncomfortable airing them in public.

[popgun]

For an example then, what are the oaths you have to take to get you from 1 to say 5 in the fraternity.

It's OK...you can tell me, because I have no intention of ever joining, so you won't spoil any surprises for me.

You can PM them to me if you feel uncomfortable airing them in public.

Sorry buckee, but I can't be any more specific.

Even though you say that you would never join so I would be spoiling nothing for you, you are under no obligations.

If you search the Internet, you will more than likely find out.

I'm sorry that you can't just trust me, that there is nothing there that should scare a good Baptist.

Our Baptist preacher is a member of the Masonic Lodge and we also have a Nazarene Preacher.

You may be surprised to find out that your own preacher may just be a Mason.

How come I haven't heard much about an organization known as Promise Keepers? (probably because I haven't looked it up.)

....popgun