Browning BLR 270 WSM

[Guest ronin]

I just took the plunge with new selk rifle. I bought a Browning BLR lightweight 81 in the new cammo/ stainless version. I topped it off with a Trijicon Accupoint 3X9X40. I don't have any experience with hunting Trijicon products but plenty on the military and law enforcement end. Their optics perform quite well. I hoping the best for my new scope. I opted for the BLR stainless in 270 WSM for compact, easy to use shooting in wet conditions during my elk and deer season. I have found that stainless and plastic is the best way to go where I hunt. The only new issues are the 270 WSM and the Accupoint scope...both of which I have no experience with.

I did a lot of research on the 270 WSM and found it to be a good option for medium size game in just about every situation and many folks think it is a fantastic round for elk,too. I usually hunt with magnum 300 calibers but have recently had a change of heart after exposure to the magnums in the 243 to 25 caliber class. I have been hunting quite a bit with small bullets, 85-115 gr, driven at very high velocities with non-fragmenting Barnes X-bullet varieties and had absolutely stellar results on game. I have shot a number of deer and large boar with my 243 WSSM 85 gr Barnes and dropped them all in their tracks with minimal meat damage and very little recoil or noise in comparison to...lets say...my 300 RUM which my brain loves dearly and my shoulder detests.

My thought is to use the 270 WSM Barnes 130 Gr TSX or the 150 Gr MRX. My gut tells me the 130 Gr might hold have the edge due to the extra velocity. Heck, the energy seems to be in the 130 gr favor after 200 yards, too. Any thoughts in the 270 wsm for elk, bullet selection and the Trijicon scope?

[Strut10]

Sounds like a nice unit to me.......yep.

My first thoughts, as an elk rifle, are that you may wanna go with the heavier bullet (for sectional density's sake) even though the numbers on paper look better for the lighter ball. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that elk are big critters. If you have need of taking a "less-than-broadside" shot..........you're gonna want something that's gonna drive deep. You're going to be asking quite a bit of a .27 caliber. Better have a good, heavy bullet..............even if it's not quite as flat at 300 yards as a lighter one.

[Guest ronin]

My thoughts have been the same as yours and I normally would jump to the heavier bullet, that is, before I started hunting with Barnes. They recommend to drop one weight down from what one normally hunts with and I did just that with everything from deer to elk...just not with the 270wsm. I only take broadside shots anyway so I am leaning towards the lighter bullet. I'm hoping to hear from someone who has used it though. Thanks for the insight.

[EKYhunter]

Congrats on the new gun. Gotta love any Browning! Sounds to me like youre pretty knowledgeable about which bullet to use. I've never used a 270 short mg so I cant be much help there. I know some who have used them on deer and have great success. I've used the 300 short mag and have had excellent success with it. Good luck to ya and I hope you kill a brute!

[Guest ronin]

Yeah, hear ya! Browning rifles are great. I also shoot a 243 wssm on an Abolt platform and absolutely love it. I took a 200 lb mulie in Idaho last year on the run at 220 yards and it fell as soon as it was hit. I used an 85 gr Barnes TSX which entered behind the left shoulder and exited out the neck.

Im really looking forward to the BLR. I have always wanted one but could not decide on the caliber for the longest time. I was really torn between the 270 and 300 wsm.

[woodshed]

I have a 270 WSM on my Model 70. I like it alot. I only have experience with whitetails though. Last years buck entered behind the shoulder and hit the far side shoulder and pulverized it without exiting. Lost the whole shoulder worth of meat. I was using Winchester 150 grains. The deer literally flipped over and landed on the other side of it's body where it stood.

Penetration is obviously not a problem with whitetail. I think I'll try the 130 grains to prevent meat loss if that situation arises again.

Sorry, I'm prob. not very much help though.

[Leo]

Going to a lighter bullet well likely up the meat damage not lower it.

Stick with the 150s and use a tougher bullet like a Partition, A-Frame, Scirroco or Barnes.

[woodshed]

sorry for the hijack..

Leo,

I'm not technically knowledgable on bullet performance per say. since this thread is about bullet weights and all.

Can you help me understand why the lighter bullet will ruin more meat? Also, in this caliber, 270WSM, the tougher bullet will provide what performance increase on penetration?

Is the loss of meat due to the bullet separating and comming apart? In my example the bullet stayed together and was found just under the skin on the opposite side.

Is it better if the bullet does not exit? I would think that the deer absorbs all the energy that way.

thanks

[Leo]

The amount of energy the bullet sheds as it penetrates the game animal is proportional to the volume of the wound channel it creates. So when a bullet sheds 100% of it's energy by failing to penetrate fully, the wound channel is at maximum volume. This is kind of confusing because volume has length, width and depth. If the bullet blows up too shallow the wound channel is still similar volume but it's much larger in diameter and not as deep as you may need it to be. This is why bullets that are in reality too frangible for the task at hand make some extremely ugly surface wounds and cause tremendous meat damage. If the bullet goes through and stops just under the skin on the opposite side you can be assured of maximum bullet performance. However, if you are dissatisfied with the amount of meat loss this causes it is actually preferable to fully penetrate and shed the excess energy after the bullet exits.

Heavier bullets usually have the advantage of having more kinetic energy and more momentum. Momentum determines the potential force that can be delivered by the bullet during a given time and kinetic energy determines the potential the projectile can produce that force over a given distance (ie. penetration depth).

Higher momentum and kinetic energy translates into better penetration potential only if the bullet construction is sturdy enough (the physical strength of it's materials) and it's natural rate of momentum transfer prevents it from exhausting it's energy too quickly (often related to but not defined by it's ballistic coefficient). The other factor that affects momentum transfer is the speed of the bullet itself. The faster the bullet travels the faster it loses momentum. Lighter bullets typically travel faster and have less momentum so they simply transfer energy more quickly and penetrate less.

For a lighter bullet to equal the performance of a heavier counterpart. The momentums need to be equal. This gives the lighter bullet significantly more energy but that is needed since the lighter faster bullet is at a predisposition to expend more force over the penetration distance than the slower heavier one.

A real tough lighter bullet like Barnes TSX 130gr could take that increase in force and perform essentially equal to a 150gr premium bullet. But for this to occur the velocity of a monolithic bullet like the Barnes actually needs to be 10% higher than it's cup and core counterparts. I don't see that in factory loads. You could probably accomplish this with careful and methodical reloading or you could just buy the premium load 150s and be done with it.

Bottomline, what you are describing in the performance of the 150 you used absolutely indicates to me that the same bullet in 130 version will penetrate less and cause more meat damage (a larger DIAMETER wound channel). The 130 will has less momentum, will lose that momentum more quickly and has less energy to counteract that effect.

Probably more info than you were looking for. I apologize, that's as simple an answer I can come up with for a very complicated question.

[Guest ronin]

Hey Leo, thanks for the in depth post. My whole line of thought on this project was after seeing the deadly consequences of the 243 wssm loaded down with the miniscule 85 gr Barnes TSX. I handloaded them up to about 3700 FPS and the performance was far better, proportionately, than any other hunting bullet I have ever used. Everything from large boar to massive mulies fell within a step to this diminutive combination. I've shot knarley monster boars with everyting from 30 cal to 45/7o's all with various Barnes bullets, but nothing seemed to compare to the results with the baby cousin 243. All of the Barnes bullets performed perfectly without exception but there was something different about the 243. The only thing I can see is a realtively light weight bullet driven at very high velocities with no fragmentation and perfect expansion.

I was even tempted to try the 243 wssm/ 85 gr Barnes on an elk but chickened out. So I decided on the 270 WSM with a Barnes TSX as an alternative. I have one box of 140 Gr Winchester Fail Safe cartridges, seems to be the basis for the MRX system, and Federal 130 Gr with the TSX. I also have 130 gr and 140 gr TSX's bullets for reloading later. I'm wondering what velocity I might be able to achieve with both reloads? I like RL 22 quite a bit and I see according to the Barnes #4 manual I can get 3260 FPS with the 130 and 100% case capacity and 3120 with 97% in the 140. I would actually prefer the VLC cause I can squeeze out another 100 FPS with them rather easily but just can't get them any more.

[Leo]

The smaller diameter bullet really reduces the frontal area of the bullet. That smaller area in turn reduces the rate of momentum transfer significantly.

For lack of a better analogy. It's like the 243 is a sharper knife.

I don't know if I'd trust them on elk either. IMO, the 270WSM is a safer choice.

[Leo]

I thought about it and decided I should try and help uncover the mystery of your excellent 243 load.

First off, I want to note that standard factory load velocity for an 85gr bullet in a 243Win is about 3320fps.

That puts its grains-ft/s(GFS) momentum at 85 x 3320=282200

A factory 100gr momentum is 100 x 2850=285000

Your load of 85grs at 3700fps has a momentum of 85 x 3700=314500 (notice this is actually more than 10% higher than the factory 85gr load)

This is also substantially higher momentum than the factory 100gr loads. The TSX is apparently strong enough to be driven like that. That's good otherwise this approach would NOT be so effective.

The energy of a factory 100gr load is 1803 FPE

The energy of a factory 85gr load is 2080 FPE

The fact the energy is higher on the 85gr load indicates the 100gr bullets actually reduce the case capacity some or the pressures in this case go to an unsafe level. This is not true for heavier bullets on all cartridges. On the 270WSM factory loads actually get more energy with the 150gr than with the 130gr load.

On your 243Win load an 85gr TSX at 3700fps produces 2581 FPE

So not only do you have a higher momentum you also have a higher energy than the heavier bullet. Since the toughness of the bullet is there in the TSX it's not that surprising you get much better results with that load than a heavier bullet would give you. Especially since the case of the 243Win appears to not allow you to get more energy out of it with 100gr loads.

I'll let you figure out how fast you'd have to drive a 130gr bullet out of the 270WSM to exceed both the momentum and Energy of the 150gr load. Then you can decide if it's even possible (or even a wise pursuit) with that cartridge. IMO, that's what it's gonna take to achieve similar light bullet performance to what you've experienced in the 243Win.

[RangerClay]

I cannot help you much with your elk question but I do want to say congratulations on your new rifle. I got a BLR this last spring and I love it!

[wtnhunt]

Some great information there Leo. Browning makes some sweet rifles.

Hope you will post some pics of your setup with the scope on it.

[Shaun_300]

Congrats on the new rifle man! Both dad, my brother and I use them for deer hunting, I also use mine for moose. Mine's a .300 WSM, Mike's is a .270 Win and dad's is a .308 Win.

[woodshed]

Leo,

Wow, great explanation. I will stick with the 150 grains then. I have a much better understanding as well.

thank you

[Guest ronin]

I second the motion. Leo, that was a great explanation and helped me to understand why I was getting the results I was. I will have to experiment with the 270 loads but I'm thinking a compromise might be 140 gr TSX or MRX.

My blr arrives today and I'm waiting for UPS...it's gonna be a good day!

[Guest ronin]

The BLR is a very nice rifle. I shot it today and it grouped MOA right out of the box. The Accupoint scope is really a great system. I was surprised how easy it was to get used to a two eye open scope. I've used the ACOg system before but not the 3X9 hunting scope. Super fast target aquisition and very clear optics.

I was shooting 130 gr TSX and 140 Gr Fail Safes. The TSX really coppered the bore far more than most of my other rifles and I'm not sure why. I really like the fail safes...too bad they don't make 'em anymore. Far as I'm concerned, they are a MRX VLC combo.