Guest shtr Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 I took the time to share some thoughts on another site and wanted some here to give me thier thoughts. Not looking for a right and wrong or good/bad discussion. Just looking for someone to give me thier insight. here is my own. Well since I have a bit of time on my hands and I am different in mindset than most on either side of the issue as to reasons....I want to get back in the pool I remember that ad (anti-compound) when it ran and hundreds more over a few years until the argument started fading away , mainly because the overwhelming evidence went against the people who were against the compound. (cant discuss the crossbow until we cover the same demons that afflicted ourselves ) The reasoning against the past arguments (today) is hollow because the vast majority of bowhunters were not bowmen previous to this era. Therefore there is a lack of information with which to draw upon to each side of the argument. Even if todays bowhunter were to take the time to study the issue's of the past as it pertains to the anti-compound movement , they could still not grasp the emotion and mindset of that time because you had to live it to know it. That may sound harsh but it really isn't when you consider anything in your own personal life. ??? You could explain the need to restrict logging but if you make your living off the land by harvesting lumber , these reasons are restrictive and senseless :-[ Is it or not? ..... depends on where you stand on the issue Is there a truth which proves the other theory incorrect? Of course but can you change the mind of either person who stand on opposing sides of the question? NO! But why? ??? Because each side has facts that they believe and fact is going to out trump a fact :-[ And this is where we were with the compound debate. It's not that people came to their senses but rather the enemy majority became the majority :-/ Did the majority know better? NO The fact of the matter is that the majority were only half informed compared to their opposition due to the fact that they had only experience one side of the argument. I believe that the minority today were correct back then but what anyone else has done to this point in time has not effected me , so what do I care? (I do care but I can go back to this point later) Today we have the same issue because of the same problems. The compound shooter has taken the place of the traditional archer in seeing anything other than a compound as ******* equipment ;D ;D The Compound shooter(majority) now turns back on the traditionalist and shuns the idea of hunting like Fred Bear and Howard Hill , calling it harmful to the sport and an ineffective means of harvest The irony is thick and blinds us! Dont believe me? I will go to the site of your choice and post a simple thread which questions the use of the longbow as an ethical tool OH.... THE HORROR! Suddenly you will see people posting who have never even posted before and the vast majority will condemn the longbow and spit at it and call it unethical. (by the way....the people who will be calling it unethical will later on tell you that ethics are a personal thing when it comes to their broadheads and such :-/ ) The compound community has alot of strength and therefore can assault many small groups with the combined force of numbers devoid of insight..... in a blind attempt to save and take what few freedom that remain , back unto themselves. This is not the users fault in my own opinion but is the work of brain washing over the last 30 years. Who is responsible? ..... AMO! AMO came about as a way to combine manufactures monies and influence (one in the same) to move agendas in the direction of profits. Nobody was making a living building stick bows (by comparison to todays manufactures) but the compound made that promise and the manufactures jumped right on board. (I dont blame them really) Todays factory assault on the general public of archers is breath taking. Which is to say that they are standing on our collective chests. : Now the big problem for the manufactures is that there are people with emotions attached to those dollars and that is a big nuisance for them......so please stop resisting! ;D You will do what they tell you to do and you will do it when they tell your elected politicians to do it. But.....it's not time yet > (I digress somewhat.....not much though) What I am saying is that it is the manufactures (AMO) that started this fight and won the day and it has never been about what is right or wrong :'( And so.....the children of the corn follow the only master they have ever known and recite the mantra verbatim and pass it along from generation to generation. This is why the debate continues. In order for the debate to stop and one side win and one to lose , people must physically embrace the enemy in their minds in order to examine the facts within. This is what the compound community did not do and have not had to do :'( The traditionalist did have to encounter this and did do this and I think that this is why you will find a more open demeanor toward the crossbow debate than will be found in the compound crowd. ??? It is my opinion that nobody other than the total art crowd who has and does fully indulge the full width and breathe of the archery experience should be considered to have a voice in the debate. I do not have the vast experience with the crossbow with which to consider myself worthy to voice this opinion to a degree that might offer weight to the discussion....sadly. Why? ..... because I do not yet need too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 If you were to use the search function on this site, you'd see a fair amount of threads that discuss this. Sometimes these discussions get heated. Unfortunately there are some "purists" out there that will never fully accept using a crossbow. I don't know why. IMHO, if you want to use one and it's legal, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiganbowhunter_SQ2 Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 If you were to use the search function on this site, you'd see a fair amount of threads that discuss this. Sometimes these discussions get heated. Unfortunately there are some "purists" out there that will never fully accept using a crossbow. I don't know why. IMHO, if you want to use one and it's legal, go for it. Yep, what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Yep, what he said. Yep what he said, and they should allow them during bow season too You're way too analytical shtr You must drive your wife nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Here's my opinion................if it shoots, I'll use it!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 I personally see no reason that Xbows shouldn't be allowed in regular archery season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shtr Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Yep what he said, and they should allow them during bow season too You're way too analytical shtr You must drive your wife nuts. Sounds like you feel her pain Yeah I know .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Here's my opinion................if it shoots, I'll use it!!!!!!!! Most definately !! It's just another means of hunting ,, nothing more ,, nothing less ... I personally see no reason that Xbows shouldn't be allowed in regular archery season! And ABSOLUTELY !! John and I both have fathers that wouldn't be able to hunt without the crossbow, taking valuable time together in the woods away from us.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shtr Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 If you were to use the search function on this site, you'd see a fair amount of threads that discuss this. Sometimes these discussions get heated. Unfortunately there are some "purists" out there that will never fully accept using a crossbow. I don't know why. IMHO, if you want to use one and it's legal, go for it. well thats why I wasn't asking for a debate. Just wanted to hear some well thought out insight as to both sides of the issue. I believe that if everyone lets down their gloves for just a little while there are better reasons than the ones given in the past. And maybe someone will catch an open mind with something other than opinion expressed as a simple blurb. Hard to believe that these strong heart felt opinions are all based (on both sides) on so little as to insight and instead simply focus on the weapon itself along with emotion. Seriously.....Do you know what I am saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Hard to believe that these strong heart felt opinions are all based (on both sides) on so little as to insight and instead simply focus on the weapon itself along with emotion. Seriously.....Do you know what I am saying? Actually No .. :confused: Hunting is about emotion, without the emotion whats the point ?? And what exactly about the weapon needs to be focused on ?? It's exactly that a weapon in means to take game efficiently ... It's NO different than someone telling you that Semi-Automatic weapons shouldn't be used to hunt with,, they all should be Bolt Actions..now how dumb would that be ??.. :rolleyes: I say if it gets hunters into the woods that other wise wouldn't be able to do so is a good thing, why should it be a bad thing just because someone says so .. that's just nuts.. I'm all for the crossbow hunter,, I think this special season and special handicap permit thing is absolutely ludicrous ... I say if it's legal hunt the way you want and I'll hunt the way I want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shtr Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Actually No .. :confused: Hunting is about emotion, without the emotion whats the point ?? And what exactly about the weapon needs to be focused on ?? It's exactly that a weapon in means to take game efficiently ... It's NO different than someone telling you that Semi-Automatic weapons shouldn't be used to hunt with,, they all should be Bolt Actions..now how dumb would that be ??.. :rolleyes: I say if it gets hunters into the woods that other wise wouldn't be able to do so is a good thing, why should it be a bad thing just because someone says so .. that's just nuts.. I'm all for the crossbow hunter,, I think this special season and special handicap permit thing is absolutely ludicrous ... I say if it's legal hunt the way you want and I'll hunt the way I want... Kinda what I meant. Emotion tied to the weapon itself. As you said....dumb..... if thats the only argument. Although there are people that wont simply point to that fact as if thats all that need be said on the matter....alot do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 We've hashed this debate out several times here since I've been on here. It's kinda like beating a dead horse in these parts. We know who doesn't like it and who thinks it's ok. You missed some really good debates on it, but you're a day late and a dollar short. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbeck Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 I personally wouldn't choose a crossbow over a compound. My bow shoots to well, then on the other hand I wouldn't choose traditional archery equip. over the compound for the reason that I don't feel the confidence in my traditional equip. for taking a whitetail at any range over 10 yards. LOL I believe that we need understanding in our ranks, and from the look of the highways in the morning, understanding is on short supply. My stand would be if A person chooses a crossbow to hunt in archery season, go for it. I would like to see it become a legal weapon for hunting regular archery season here in pa. If someone wants to set a standard for hunting, they should buy there own ground and set guidelines on there property. State ground should be able to be enjoyed by anyone. JMO Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 WHY If the argument for using a crossbow during archery season is simply that the weapon used is of little importance, it is the hunt that counts, then, why have separate seasons at all? Why not just have everyone, using their weapon of choice (rocket launcher?), all hunting during the same time frame? Why should the archery hunters here in Montana have the chance to hunt the elk rut? Why? With the exception of the means of propulsion, shooting a crossbow is nothing like shooting a compound or traditional bow. While both are short range, quiet (hopefully) weapons so are traditional handguns, muzzle loaders and slug guns relatively short range, although a little bit noisier. When it comes to the old argument about the compound versus the traditional bow there was really little to argue about. They are both held and shot the same way, with the only real difference possibly being the strength required to hold the bow at full draw. When I first started shooting archery equipment there were no compounds yet on the market and the development of fiberglass limbs was the "new" idea. There were no sight pins or peep sights. Ahhh... sight pins, those, in my opinion, were the first major breakthrough which really made shooting a bow and consistently hitting your intended target a much easier task. Given today's compounds, if you take away the sights pins, peep sights and scopes(?) and forced people to become proficient enough to consistently hit their intended target at 20 or 30 yards, then I would be able to guarantee a decline in the number of archery hunters. Enter the crossbow hunter. Remove even more challenges to the sport and more people flock to it because it is easier. More than three decades have passed since I have shot a crossbow. At that time my brother in-law had built one from a kit and had strung a clothes line across a dirt bank and placed clothes pins on it. At 20 yards it was a rare thing to miss the clothes pin you were shooting at. Try that with your compound. Try taking a rest off of a tree branch/stand and holding at full draw for hours with your compound. Try cocking your crossbow once the deer/elk/bear/etc. comes into view. Now, about that warm fuzzy, using a compound allows more hunters to enjoy the outdoors. Feel good sayings like that are preposterous. If you need to shoot and kill something to enjoy the outdoors, you have a problem. If we really want more people to enjoy the sport of hunting then we should go all out. Make any weapon available to man legal to use and whatever "hunting" technique one prefers should be allowed. Seasons? Why? After all, it is the "hunt" that is important. Is it not? Everyone has an argument to back up their believes and probably no one can change their mind. I believe that crossbows have their place in the hunting world, but I do not believe that it is during archery season when used by an able bodied person. It is not about keeping the woods to myself, there are millions of acres here in Montana to hunt, Maybe it is about time and dedication. It is about who you are and where you have been. It is about "hunting". Not how easy you can make it or my way is better than yours. Playing with nature to grow bigger bucks, making everything easier so we do not have to work as hard, and "lets go get the four wheeler" mentality. Life is a challenge. Hunting should be a challenge, with every hunt an adventure. Maybe, some day I will meet one of you hunting on a ridge top here in Montana. I will say hello and no matter what weapon your are carrying I will embrace our hunting heritage together. Good hunting to all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 I have yet to see someone who is anti-crossbow, actually bowhunt during rifle season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 way back when Ohio was first debating a crossbow season i was one of the guys on the other side. we were so uninformed back then and most of us compound guys were dead set against crossbows. that was many years ago. i changed my mind when i came home from the Army for 30 days before i was to go overseas. it was during bow season in Ohio and i sure hadnt practiced with my bow at all. so a friend let me borrow his crossbow i was a little hesitant at first, but when he showed me it was really a close range weapon just like a bow, i accepted his offer and went hunting after about 5 days of practice. im happy to say i shot a nice doe at Salt Fork public hunting ground in Guernsey county. it was my first deer in 3 years and i sure was proud of her. it wasnt until i was on my plane headed to Italy for 2 years that i thought of how biased i had been back when the Crossbow debate was raging in Ohio. im sure glad that it didnt go the way some of us had planned. for me now i say if its legal use it and if it gets more guys a chance to hunt then its got to be good. Shoot Strong Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 I am 100% in favor of crossbows during the archery season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 My stance remains the same. I lived through the anti-compound days and have made the same comparisons and points here that you've made in your post. Just a lot shorter version of it. I still stand with those that have no problem sharing the woods with Xbow hunters during bow season. I have yet to see someone who is anti-crossbow, actually bowhunt during rifle season. I have Leo. Actually several people. Maybe it's a just coicidence, maybe it's not...but they are all traditional bowhunters. I've never met a bowhunter that shot a compound bow that ever bowhunted during gun season yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckslayer Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 I understand and respect everyone's opinions and methodologies on the subject. Like others' said everone has their own opinion. Mine is: I think that crossbows should be allowed to be used during any season, (as is the current law in PA) -- but only by those with a medical condition that prevents them from drawing a compound/traditional bow of legal draw weight. I am just guessing but I bet there would be a bunch of numb-skulls that think a crossbow is like a scoped rifle if they were completely legalized. There would be more who would not practice like compound/traditional archers do because of the scope and gun-like feel of a crossbow. I personally like the elitist feel of being an archery hunter. I currently practice and put my time in, like most people who shoot a compound/tradition equip. and am proud of that work. I know around here there are less slob hunters in the woods during archery season because it is more work than they are interested in. I like it that way. A special crossbow season doesn't bother me but a combined archery/crossbow season I don't approve of. Using a crossbow is like pressing the "Easy" button on practicing and conditioning your body to be adept with a bow; I don't want that to by synonymous with what we now call archery. Also, I do hunt with my compound as well as my rifle during the rifle season Thanks to those who read this... and respect my feelings as I do yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 This topic has come up in here many times. I kind of have mixed thoughts to be honest, and kind of have a to each his/her own mindset. Up until 3 or 4 years ago, in Tennessee the crossbow was not allowed during the archery seasons unless you were deemed physically unable to hunt with a compound or traditional bow. The law was changed to allow anyone to hunt with a crossbow during the archery seasons. I do agree that you still have to get the deer close with a crossbow, and there are some of the same challenges, but there are also some differences that make it a bit less challenging in my opinion, and for me I will continue to hunt with a modern compound bow unless somethings happens that I am unable to. That said I have nothing against anyone who hunts ethically and legally with any weapon, I however think that with a bow that has to be drawn, held, and shot there is certainly a bit more of an element of challenge than just aiming and shooting. Far as some of the comments made, elkoholic has made a very good reply on the challenges and can see where he is coming from and I agree with him all the way. Also see where Leo is coming from and would say it would be rare in these parts that anyone would put down their guns to hunt in a gun season with archery gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckslayer Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 I do agree that you still have to get the deer close with a crossbow, and there are some of the same challenges, but there are also some differences that make it a bit less challenging in my opinion, and for me I will continue to hunt with a modern compound bow unless somethings happens that I am unable to. That said I have nothing against anyone who hunts ethically and legally with any weapon, I however think that with a bow that has to be drawn, held, and shot there is certainly a bit more of an element of challenge than just aiming and shooting. This really struck home for me William. I agree completely, and really feel strongly for the comment about having nothing against anyone ethically and legally hunting with any weapon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shtr Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 If the argument for using a crossbow during archery season is simply that the weapon used is of little importance, it is the hunt that counts, then, why have separate seasons at all? I have no issue with this approach....do it myself. BUT.... The reason obviously is because the projectile is limited and the equipment is typically limited to 1 shot due to the loading process which makes opportunity limited. Same logic applies to the muzzle loader which has it's own season as well. The compound has far more range potential than the crossbow and it can be loaded far quicker , so by this logic we should have a separate season for the crossbow as well. When it comes to the old argument about the compound versus the traditional bow there was really little to argue about. They are both held and shot the same way, with the only real difference possibly being the strength required to hold the bow at full draw. As I said in my original post , this would be the observation from a modern times bowhunter but the facts of the matter is that there is very little in common between the compound and the longbow. I wont even bother going into it here because it would be off topic but I can assure you that when the compound was being challenged as a primitive weapon there was a truck load of valid information to support those contentions. When I first started shooting archery equipment there were no compounds yet on the market and the development of fiberglass limbs was the "new" idea. There were no sight pins or peep sights. Ahhh... sight pins, those, in my opinion, were the first major breakthrough which really made shooting a bow and consistently hitting your intended target a much easier task. Given today's compounds, if you take away the sights pins, peep sights and scopes(?) and forced people to become proficient enough to consistently hit their intended target at 20 or 30 yards, then I would be able to guarantee a decline in the number of archery hunters. You are starting to make my point right here but as I said....off topic Try cocking your crossbow once the deer/elk/bear/etc. comes into view. Yeah!....good point! I thought you were against the crossbow by the way this started out but I see now that you are well aware of some of the limitations that the crossbow carries with it Now, about that warm fuzzy, using a compound allows more hunters to enjoy the outdoors. Feel good sayings like that are preposterous. If you need to shoot and kill something to enjoy the outdoors, you have a problem. If we really want more people to enjoy the sport of hunting then we should go all out. Make any weapon available to man legal to use and whatever "hunting" technique one prefers should be allowed. Seasons? Why? After all, it is the "hunt" that is important. Is it not? Alright....your obviously suffering something akin to turrets in the written form. I'll wait until you are cogent again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shtr Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 On the whole this is a very good discussion and expression of opinion. I am very happy to see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 I am 100% in favor of crossbows during the archery season. Me too. Crossbows, have been around a lot longer than compound bows, or guns for that matter. They are a bow, string and arrow(bolt), just like any bow is, They are definitely a short-rage weapon. The only thing that makes them different, is that you can pre-cock the string, and the whole thing is mounted on a gun-stock like fixture.......big deal eh They've been legal here in BC during bow-season since day one, and I've never heard anyone complain. If anything, it gets more folks into bow-hunting with a compound or traditional archery equipment. As far as I'm concerned, a cross-bow belongs in the traditional bow category, if anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 On the whole this is a very good discussion and expression of opinion. I am very happy to see it How would you go about fine tuning a crossbow again? :D J/K! I'm in favor of crossbows, I've got no problems with them what-so-ever. My stepdad uses one, a few of my buddies use them, as long as it's legal, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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