Dawg Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Buckee, Just something to think about. (HOW DO YOU KNOW THE THEIF WAS NOT BAPTIZED?) John the Baptist was Baptizing Unto the remission of sins. You cannot prove he wasn't anymore than I can prove he was. Its a MOTE point. But, still I have MUCH to say about the Theif. First is that he will be in Heaven. Because Christ said he would! :eek:WOW:eek:..........something we FINALLY agree on!! Christ said I was going too Jeepers.......me too!!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Turkey Fife Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 asdf [21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. [22] Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: [23] Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: [24] Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. [25] For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: [26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: [27] Because thou wilt not leave my soul in ****, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. [28] Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. [29] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. [30] Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; [31] He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in ****, neither his flesh did see corruption. [32] This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. [36] Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. [37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? [38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. [40] And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. [41] Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. [42] And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. [43] And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. The church was not established untill Jesus Died on the Cross, when He said it's finished. Most are willing to agree to this. Acts give's us information on how the church Worshiped and Men were Saved. Jesus was raised and Died under the Old Law, Christ's laws came into effect when He Died on the Cross and this is when Peter Preached the first Gospel Sermon. If these men who killed the Son of God were saved like this they why can't You and I be? It just fits! When you see how Paul was Saved in Acts 22:16 and his sins were forgiven at Baptism and he had CALLED on the Lord. Read the Book of Acts. If you are serious about becoming a Christian, you cannot come away from their not at least knowing that Baptism is mentioned a BUNCH for some reason! And if you will Galdly Recieve his word you will be baptized also! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 :eek:WOW:eek:..........something we FINALLY agree on!! Well..............that didn't last long............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Turkey Fife Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 asdf Eph. 1 [18] The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, [19] And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, [20] Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, [21] Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: [22] And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, [23] Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. 5. Membership in the Baptist church has nothing to do with salvation, it has to do with book-keeping. Salvation is between us and God. Well you read it here first. Christ is the Head of the church, he adds to The church, Acts 2:47 He's the saviour of the Body. We are told to baptize people into the church. We have Communion with the church. The church is the Bride of Christ. Christ is it's head. BUT, we can be saved without it. My question would be then why have it at ALL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaTrae Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 I can't sleep. I really wanted to come to this forum and get to know you guys but I'm gonna go ahead and tell you what I believe. I'm pretty sure you'll think I'm crazy also, but it's my understanding, and I must be true to it. I hope my explanation can clear up some of the disagreements. Anyway, I wrote it in MS Word, and pasted it over here. If you don't get physically sick before finishing, I hope you will finish reading it, It's the best I could do in explaining my reason for my belief. And BTW, I do not belong to the ICC, it preys on the young and weak. There is a HUGE difference between the ICC and the mainstream churches of Christ. God bless you all, Trae 1. In Matthew 16:13-19, Jesus promised to build His church. -Verse 18, “ I will build my church.” 2. In Mark 9:1, Jesus said His church would come with power, and that some of them would be alive when His “kingdom” or “church” came! 3. In Luke 24:45-49, right before His ascension into heaven, Jesus told His disciples to wait in Jerusalem until they received that power from on high. 4. In Acts 1:8, the Bible says the power would come when the Holy Spirit of God came. 5. In Acts 2:1-4, the Holy Spirit of God came with power! [/font] a. The apostles spoke in tongues they had never known[/font] b. Those who heard were astonished, even accusing them of being “full of new wine” in verse 13 c. Then Peter stood up and quoted the prophet Joel in verse 17 (if those people would have studied and known Joel’s words, they would have known what was happening) 6. After Peter handled the confusion, he preached the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ! In verse 29 Peter started to quote King David, how that David had foretold of the resurrection of Jesus, -Verse 29-36 7. Then in verse 37 something happened! Until then these people did not believe. They thought Jesus was a fake, a fraud, a deceiver! 8. In the course of this sermon, Peter supplied the evidence in order to convince them that Jesus was the Son of God, the Messiah of prophecy! Notice: In verse 36, they got it! They understood! In verse 37, they were ready to change and asked what to do? Peter answered them in verse 38, with the same response the church must teach in this day and age. And in verse 47, God added them to the church that Jesus said he would build. 9. The church, the one that Jesus said He would build, is a result of the gospel preached and obeyed! Now, if you approached most people who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and asked them if being a member of the church was essential to salvation, most of them would say “NO”. Most of the good people who believe in Jesus - believe that one must accept Christ, but not the church. Just take Christ, leave the church! 10. However if you presented that question in any other way you would probably receive a “YES!" If you asked: “Must one obey the gospel to be saved?” Almost everyone would say yes! 11. Romans 1:16 12. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 – This is the gospel, God’s remedy for our sin problem! 13. Matthew 7:21 a. That verse answers the question “who is going to heaven?” b. Everyone who does the will of Christ. c. So when we obey the gospel of Christ, we obey the will of Christ, and we can live and die in the hope of heaven! 14. 1 Peter 4:17 – In regard to a suffering, not the final judgment. But consider the great question! What will be the end of those who don’t obey the gospel? 15. Paul answers this one in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 a. He’s not coming to make exceptions, or to give second chances, Jesus will return to take vengeance on all who… 16. Someone is going to suffer the vengeance of God. 17. So then what exactly happens when one obeys the gospel? a. What happened when those obeyed the gospel on the day of Pentecost? b. God added them to the church, Acts2:47. c. You see, one cannot obey the gospel of Christ without being added to the church of Christ 18. So when you ask must one obey the gospel to be saved, you have really asked, must one be a member of the church to be saved! It’s the same thing, if you’ve done one then you’ve done the other! 19. Because God takes the saved and adds them to the church! It’s not up to us, it is God’s job to add to His church! How about this one: “Must a person contact the blood of Christ to be saved?” Anyone who believes the Bible would answer yes to contacting the blood. You must contact the blood of Christ to live and die in the hope of heaven 20. Matthew 26:28 – Jesus said… 21. Ephesians 1:7 22. Hebrews 9:12 23. 1 Peter 1:18-19 24. Revelation 1:5 All the power of God to remit our sins is found in the blood of Christ! 25. Remember John 19:34? “forthwith came blood and water” a. It was in His death that His blood was shed b. A person must get to the death of Christ to find the blood of Christ c. But a person can’t go back 2000 years to Calvary so in some like figurative manner mankind must get to the death of the Lord Jesus! 26. Romans 6:1-4, a. So then it is by baptism that we get to the redeeming blood of Christ. b. We must contact the blood of Christ shed in the death of Christ to receive forgiveness. And that is accomplished in baptism! c. Baptism is the culminating act of obedience to the gospel! 27. So then we contact the blood of Christ, by obeying the gospel of Christ, and thus are added to the church of Christ. Remember! Acts 2:47says God adds the saved to the church a. Who are the saved? Those who obey the gospel of Christ. b. Who are the saved? Those who contact the blood of Christ. c. How does one contact the redeeming blood? By obeying the gospel. d. And what does God do when one obeys the gospel of Christ, and contacts the blood of Christ? He adds them to the church! 28. All these questions mean the same thing! Must one contact the blood? Must one obey the gospel? Must one be a member of the church? These are all just different ways of asking the same thing! And the answer to each of them is YES! 29. One might ask, “Must one be reconciled to God in order to be saved?” a. Every one who believes the Bible would say, yes! b. A person must be reconciled to God in order to be saved! 30. Most everyone knows that sin has made a great gulf between God and man. a. In Luke 16:6, Father Abraham tells that rich man – “Besides all this, here is a great gulf fixed between us and you! 31. Isaiah 59:1-2 32. 2 Corinthians 5:19, --- we must be reconciled, our sin has separated us! Man can’t build a bridge to God. God had to build the bridge for us to be reconciled to Him! And He did! From Genesis 3:15, through he rest of the Bible, God is building a bridge for us to cross, by faith in Him. And in the fullness of time, Christ comes into the world, He lives the perfect life, He dies the horrible death, He is buried, and then He is raised from the dead. At that point God’s scheme of redemption is done! His bridge is built! Now all that is left is for mankind to cross that bridge, and the conditions of the gospel are the steps we must take, we must believe (Romans 10:10), repent (Acts 2:38), Confess Jesus as the Son of God (Matthew 10:32), be baptized for the remission of sins (Romans 6:1-4) and live faithfully (Hebrews 11:6). That is how we cross God’s great bridge of reconciliation! If you made it this far, thanks! This last point is a strong one: 33. Consider with me the passage in Ephesians 2:11-16 a. Notice where mankind is reconciled to God - In the one body b. What is this one body? Ephesians 1:22-23 says the body is the church! c.We are reconciled to God in the church, so if you want to be reconciled to God, you must be in His church! It is the place of reconciliation! 34. So being reconciled to God is the same thing as being a member of the church! 35. The question of membership in the church has been answered. YES, membership in Christ’s church is essential to salvation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 I agree with what Bloodman is saying. Listen, I DO NOT believe that you HAVE to be part of the Baptist church to be saved. The Bible doesn't say it so why should I preach it? I DO believe that when one is saved, by calling on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:9-13) he/she is added to the church, the spiritual church in which Jesus spoke of. On the other hand I do believe that being part of a physical church is important. Paul said "forsake not the assembling of thyselves together." There was a physical church in Corinth, Ephesus, Rome, Phillipi, Thessalonica, Pergamos, and many more. So why not be part of one today? Do I believe being part of the Baptist church will get me to heaven? No. It gets me as close to heaven as being a mechanic does, but it is a place that I can go to and have fellowship with fellow christians. Being part of the "church" that Jesus spoke of is what it takes, and to me getting into that church is by accepting Him as Lord and Saviour of our lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 I can really respect a response like that Bloodman. I think where we differ on things is a matter of symantics that doesn't really matter when it comes down to it brass tacks. You believe some things are required for salvation, I think they are commanded, thus required after salvation. I view those things that we do as works, thus interpreting your views as salvation through works not grace. BTW. I don't think your crazy at all...............anymore:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hogdog Preach on brother, preach on........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest swampfox Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Bloodman, I disagree with your conclusions, but they are articulated in a way that I can understand. Thank you for clearly stating and defending your views. I wish Turkey Fife would make his posts as intelligible as yours. You said, "Now all that is left is for mankind to cross that bridge, and the conditions of the gospel are the steps we must take, we must believe (Romans 10:10), repent (Acts 2:38), Confess Jesus as the Son of God (Matthew 10:32), be baptized for the remission of sins (Romans 6:1-4) and live faithfully (Hebrews 11:6). That is how we cross God’s great bridge of reconciliation!" My question to you is this: How can a sinner who is spiritually dead and alienated from God believe, repent, confess, undergo baptism, and live faithfully. These are activities of spiritually living people. A dead man cannot hear the gospel and respond in faith. He is dead. Dead man can do nothing, except stay dead. First a man must be quickened before he can DO anything. He cannot chose God any more than a dead man can chose to undergo a heart transplant operation. Salvation is ALL of grace. Salvation is of the Lord. (Jonah 2:9) Man has the responsibility to respond in obedience once he is quickened, but he cannot quicken himself. Most of us agree that baptism, church membership, good works, etc. are vitally important. Yet they are not instruments of salvation, only signs that follow those who are saved. A few quotes from the reformation period: We are accounted righteous before God, only for the merit of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by Faith, and not for our own works or deservings. Wherefore, that we are justified by Faith only, is a most wholesome Doctrine, and very full of comfort, as more largely is expressed in the Homily of Justification…Albeit that Good Works, which are the fruits of Faith, and follow after Justification, cannot put away our sins, and endure the severity of God's judgment; yet are they pleasing and acceptable to God in Christ, and do spring out necessarily of a true and lively Faith insomuch that by them a lively Faith may be as evidently known as a tree discerned by the fruit. 39 articles of Anglican Church Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love. Westminster Confession of Presbyterian Church Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is not alone. John Calvin Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth, not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death for their whole and sole righteousness by faith, which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God. Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet it is not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love. London Baptist confession of 1689 God must save us first. He must give us the gifts of faith and repentance. Then we can talk about crossing bridges and performing good works and sacraments. I care not for a man-made bridge of reconciliation. Christ is my reconciliation and my salvation, not a system of "do this" and "do that." But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption 1 Corinthians 1:30. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Romans 5:10 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled Colossians 1:21 Repentance and eternal life are gifts from God. "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 They cannot be earned by dead men. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9. Remember, Esau tried to repent, but being dead, he could not. "For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears." Hebrews 12:17 The Protestant Reformation taught us many things, not the least of which is Sola Gratia - by grace alone. Oh, how we need to heed the teachings of the Reformers who recaptured the gospel from the chains of works-based religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 This seems to be a thoughtful debate. Much better guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Turkey Fife Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 asdf Trae: That was a nice piece of work. I totaly agree 100%. They asked a question about the thief and I answered and they don't even respond. This si what they come back with....LoL ( I wish Turkey Fife would make his posts as intelligible as yours.) ;o) A great post like that and they still don't get it.....(Totaly Blows my mind) Question: How do you keep the post and go back in forth to C&P something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Turkey Fife Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 asdf hogdawg 4-Pointer Quote: Originally Posted by Turkey Fife Buckee, Just something to think about. (HOW DO YOU KNOW THE THEIF WAS NOT BAPTIZED?) John the Baptist was Baptizing Unto the remission of sins. You cannot prove he wasn't anymore than I can prove he was. Its a MOTE point. But, still I have MUCH to say about the Theif. First is that he will be in Heaven. Because Christ said he would! :eek:WOW:eek:..........something we FINALLY agree on!! Quote: Originally Posted by buckee Christ said I was going too Jeepers.......me too!!:D What about JOHNF and SWAMPFOX? do you both agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Turkey Fife Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 asdf Johnf: I read your post on the Devo of a Hunter. I remember my mother doing that at the First Baptist church, I was just a young boy and I would get so mad and embarressed. It might have helped mold me to what I am today I don't know. I want to say I am VERY, VERY Sorry you had a rough Life as a Kid. No one should half to go thru what you did. If their were something I could do I would. I did not say all this to say what I am going to say NOW. I really mean it with all my Being and Heart:) You probably don't believe me but I have Tears in my eyes. OK, here it is, Don't get up-set:o:( You talked about study with the JW'S, ME TOO!, I also Studied with the Seventhday Adventist, A Roman Catholic Priest, Many Baptist Preachers and I have Obeyed the Gospel I know a sinner God don't hear, but a Worshiper of Him, He will hear. So please read that Post of Trae's a couple times all of you, Please. Not, to be brained washed but to see if their is any Truth in it. People, I am not making a Cent off this, I am not a preacher. I know if everyone here is saved I might not be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest swampfox Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 What about JOHNF and SWAMPFOX? do you both agree? If the thief had whole heartedly submitted to John's baptism of repentance, it is very doubtful that he would end up a convicted thief three years later. You see, the danger of believing that baptism is expiatorial in its work is that it leads to false conversions. People begin to think that if they have been baptized, or participated in a set of sacraments, or are members of a certain church, then they are OK with God. If baptism is viewed in its Biblical place, as an outward symbol of that which has already taken place inwardly, there will be fewer false professors, at least in principal. John Bunyan, the great gospel preacher and author of Pilgrim's Progress, wrote: Thus I went for the space of two years, crying out against men’s sins, and their fearful state because of them… and did strive also to discover, to condemn, and remove those false supports and props on which the world doth both lean, and by them fall and perish. The false supports and props that Bunyan spoke of are people's reliance on works as instruments of justification rather than on the finished work of Christ alone. If baptism is so inextricably linked to salvation, then why didn't Paul, the greatest of early Christians, go everywhere baptizing people? As for as we know, he only baptized Crispus, Gaius, and the house of Stephanas. In fact, Paul wrote (under God's inspiration) as a lesson to us: "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel." 1 Corinthians 1:17. Yes, we must baptize those whom God, in his sovereign mercy, has elected to eternal life. Like the Lord's supper, this sacrament represents an outward sign of an inward reality. These two sacraments are for our edification. We are commanded to continue these sacraments, but let our faith and trust rest solely in the work of Christ's atonement on the cross, the substance of that which the sacraments are only a shadow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaTrae Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Swamp Fox, There's alot in your post that I'd like to quote and answer, but of course time and space limit my response. I'll try to handle each point in individual posts. But I don't have much time tonight, so I'll have to come back again with more. First your question: My question to you is this: How can a sinner who is spiritually dead and alienated from God believe, repent, confess, undergo baptism, and live faithfully. You presuppose that man has no free-will. I'm not a Calvinist so I don't have to try to fit all my other beliefs into that one "cup." I can think of many in the scriptures who did this very thing, it is a fact that God does hear a sinner, and a sinner CAN change his heart and decide to seek God. 1. The thief on the cross, Luke 23:39-43. Just a few hours earlier he had been cursing Jesus, if anyone was an alien sinner, he was. Yet he believed, and asked for help, (repentance). 2. The Jews in Acts 2, they were some who had crucified Jesus, and yet they were "cut to the heart" by the message Peter brought to them. 3. Saul was in route to put Christians in prison. He was not only able to hear Christ's message, he obeyed it asap (Acts 9). 4. Cornelius was a "good man" but not a Jew, and yet he was seeking God before God ever responded. And when God did respond, Cornelius obeyed, Acts 10. Many use John 9:31 to say that God does not hear the prayers of sinners, but that is a guy who was taught by the Pharisees in error. Did God not hear the prayers of the King of Ninevah? Did He not hear the prayers of King Darius? And of course as stated above Cornelius in Acts 10 is as good an example as there is. The list goes on and on. IMHO, when one hears the gospel God is calling him out of the darkness of sin, (2 Thessalonians 2:14, "...to which He called you by our gospel...) and every one can hear and understand that call. God says so in Ephesians 5:17 -"Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is." Why command people who cannot understand to understand? God made us able to choose. The choice between right and wrong is within us all. God that made possible by giving us the Word. It is the "sword of the Spirit" Hebrews 4:12. And it, the Word of God itself produces faith in man's heart, Romans 10:17. So when any man, good or evil hears the Word of God he has the choice to obey or disobey. Either accept the truth with faith in his heart, or deny the truth and forsake the Lord Jesus. I think we are about to get into a debate about the 5 points of Calvinism. If we are, let's start another thread and name it such. Nevermind, I'll go ahead and start it so this disscussion can continue without that extra information spilling over the point of this thread, "All it takes." Thank you for the kind words to all. And may God bless us all as we reason together from His Word. Trae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Johnf: I read your post on the Devo of a Hunter. I remember my mother doing that at the First Baptist church, I was just a young boy and I would get so mad and embarressed. It might have helped mold me to what I am today I don't know. I think you're thinking of someone else. I don't remember ever posting anything about my mother. I was very poor, but had a relatively happy childhood. I've never been a part of the JW's or 7th day adventist. I did grow up in a group called the World Wide Church of God that completely distorted the new testiment. That's why I've studied to so much, so that I can let go of false teachings through study and prayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaTrae Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Swamp Fox, Man has the responsibility to respond in obedience once he is quickened, but he cannot quicken himself. What do you mean by "quickened?" I think you are speaking about developing faith, and of course man cannot do that alone, the Word of God is the only thing that produces faith in man's heart. Without a Word from God there would be no faith. His Word is another testament to His grace. Romans 10:17, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." Trae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaTrae Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Swamp Fox, The Protestant Reformation taught us many things, not the least of which is Sola Gratia - by grace alone. That is a great point, "Grace alone" is from the Reformers - none of whom were inspired by God. No where in the inspired Word of God do you find that phrase "Grace alone". If it's not in God's Word, it's not from God. You can find places that say we are saved by grace, but there are even more that say we are saved by hope, or belief, or repentance, even baptism - 1 Peter 3:21. The only place that says "faith alone" says "NOT by faith alone" - James 2:24. Trae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest swampfox Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 In the greek the word quickened is syzōopoieō which means to make alive. "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 2 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses" Colossians 2:13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaTrae Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 In the greek the word quickened is syzōopoieō which means to make alive. "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 2 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses" Colossians 2:13 Excellent, so then wouldn't you say that at the point when God "quickens" a man that man is in a saved state? Trae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaTrae Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 A plan answer to the original statement: Obedient faith motivated by love is all that God requires of man. God provides the grace. “For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men” Titus 2:11. The Holy Spirit furnishes the revelation. “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit” 2 Peter 1:21. Jesus supplies the blood. “For this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins” Matthew 26:28. The obedience of faith is man’s responding to grace by complying with divine revelation in order to be cleansed by blood. Man can talk about believing in God, loving God, trusting God, and depending on God, but until he obeys God, he is merely beating the air with words. Trae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Obedient faith motivated by love is all that God requires of man. God provides the grace. “For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men” Titus 2:11. The Holy Spirit furnishes the revelation. “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit” 2 Peter 1:21. Jesus supplies the blood. “For this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins” Matthew 26:28. The obedience of faith is man’s responding to grace by complying with divine revelation in order to be cleansed by blood. Man can talk about believing in God, loving God, trusting God, and depending on God, but until he obeys God, he is merely beating the air with words. Trae Good point........Jesus said this about this kind of person.... "This people draweth nigh unto me with thier mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest swampfox Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 "Excellent, so then wouldn't you say that at the point when God "quickens" a man that man is in a saved state?" Certainly. When God quickens a man, he is saved. "The obedience of faith is man’s responding to grace by complying with divine revelation in order to be cleansed by blood. Man can talk about believing in God, loving God, trusting God, and depending on God, but until he obeys God, he is merely beating the air with words." I come very close to agreeing with you here. Yet it is God giving us the ability to respond and obey God's command to repent and believe. We cannot muster this up ourselves. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" Phillipians 2:13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Turkey Fife Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 asdf Johnf: I read your post on the Devo of a Hunter. I remember my mother doing that at the First Baptist church, I was just a young boy and I would get so mad and embarressed. I want to say I am VERY, VERY Sorry you had a rough Life as a Kid. You talked about study with the JW'S, ME TOO!, I also Studied with the Seventhday Adventist, A Roman Catholic Priest, Many Baptist Preachers I was talking about Myself and your Testimony, when my Mother would do that in the baptist church. I thought you mentioned that when your mother would get into it with your dad, you would say somenthing and he would HIT you in the head? I also thought you mentioned you studied with the JW's Sorry, I went back and looked and it was BUCKEE, I got mixed up on. Sorry, Buckee you had it so rough. NO TEARS this time...LoL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted October 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 I was talking about Myself and your Testimony, when my Mother would do that in the baptist church. I thought you mentioned that when your mother would get into it with your dad, you would say somenthing and he would HIT you in the head? I also thought you mentioned you studied with the JW's Sorry, I went back and looked and it was BUCKEE, I got mixed up on. Sorry, Buckee you had it so rough. NO TEARS this time...LoL Yes, that would have to have been someone else. I can only remember my mom and dad fighting two times. Once when I was in the 2nd grade and once when I was in HS. My dad only hit me one time and that when I was 18. I had it coming:o. My mom on the other hand beat me like a red-headed stepchild. I ususally had it coming then too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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