All it takes

[johnf]

Swamp Fox,

That is a great point, "Grace alone" is from the Reformers - none of whom were inspired by God. No where in the inspired Word of God do you find that phrase "Grace alone". If it's not in God's Word, it's not from God.

You can find places that say we are saved by grace, but there are even more that say we are saved by hope, or belief, or repentance, even baptism - 1 Peter 3:21. The only place that says "faith alone" says "NOT by faith alone" - James 2:24.

Trae

I don't really see how you can honestly say that the reformers were not inspired by God. After all, they changed a religion that had been so distorted by the leaders of the church and man's government that I don't think Christ would recognize them as followers. They took it out of the hands of the leaders and gave the word to the people and let the people learn for themselves what God had done for them. Isn't that what Christ did for the Jews and gentiles? He took what had become a distorted religion of the Elite and the self righteous where they made rules that only they could understand and follow. He showed the world what grace was and gave it freely to the world. That's the same thing the reformers did. Jesus did it for the Jews and gave it to the gentiles, Martin Luther did it for all that would accept it.

How can that not be inspired by God?

Just because they didn't write a gospel doesn't mean they weren't inspired by the Almighty.

[johnf]

What does Christ say about Salvation?

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e] 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Well what about the water?

John 7:38

38Whoever believes in me, as[a] the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him."

Where does this water come from? A spicket?

John 4

7When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, "Will you give me a drink?" 8(His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

9The Samaritan woman said to him, "You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?" (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])

10Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

11"Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?"

13Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

15The woman said to him, "Sir, give me this water so that I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water." 16He told her, "Go, call your husband and come back."

[Guest swampfox]

Johnf, I agree that in a certain sense the reformers were inspired by God in the work that they did. God used them to usher in the greatest awakening and revival this Earth has ever seen since the book of Acts. Yet, I think we need to be careful using the word "inspired." The kind or degree of inspiration of the reformer's preaching and writing is different than the inspiration of the preaching and writings of Old and New Testament saints.

[johnf]

The inspiration of God whether it be the writing of the book of Genisis or Revalations is no more or less miraculous than God inspiring one to salvation. IMHO

[Dawg]

The inspiration of God whether it be the writing of the book of Genisis or Revalations is no more or less miraculous than God inspiring one to salvation. IMHO

This I agree with. This is what Jesus came to do, seek and save. While I agree that the inspiration that God gave to those who wrote the Bible is miraculous, our salvation is much more.

[BamaTrae]

Johnf said:

How can that not be inspired by God?

Just because they didn't write a gospel doesn't mean they weren't inspired by the Almighty.

There's a lot of information here that is deeply needed to explain the truth of inspiration.

First, the reformers did not claim that they were "inspiried" of God in the same way that the Biblical writters were inspired. I think that is a huge hurdle for anyone that thinks they were. I am not saying that they did not accomplish a great and wonderful deed. They did, but it was based on the God given intellect and search of the scriptures that guided these great men into their religious understandings.

Second, inspiration is defined in the Holy scriptures for us, and we would do well not to add to the writings of the Book of God. Consider with me these passages:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 - "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

1 Corinthians 2:9-13 - "But as it is written:

“ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,

Nor have entered into the heart of man

The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but words which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

Clearly, "inspiration" declares that God Himself literally gave these men the very words they used to pen the Holy Scriptures. Anything less and the Bible is the work of mere mortals, not God.

Johnf also said:

The inspiration of God whether it be the writing of the book of Genisis or Revalations is no more or less miraculous than God inspiring one to salvation. IMHO

Our Father in heaven miraculously inspired the writers of the Bible. God does not miraculously "inspire" anyone to salvation. That flies in the face of the plan teaching of Scripture. We are to learn from God, "Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me" John 6:43-45.

"Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is" Ephesians 5:17.

"For our boasting is this: the testimony of our conscience that we conducted ourselves in the world in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, and more abundantly toward you. 13 For we are not writing any other things to you than what you read or understand. Now I trust you will understand, even to the end 14 (as also you have understood us in part), that we are your boast as you also are ours, in the day of the Lord Jesus"

2 Corinthians 1:12-14.

So they read distinctly from the book, in the Law of God; and they gave the sense, and helped them to understand the reading" Nehemiah 8:8.

Sincerly,

Trae

[Dawg]

That's a good point Trae.

[BamaTrae]

My mom on the other hand beat me like a red-headed stepchild. I ususally had it coming then too.

I hear ya on this one!!! A big DITTO for me! God bless our Moms, they are the perfect evidence that God is and that He IS love, 1 John 4:8.

:D:D:D:D:D

Trae