GM is on strike

[craig mack]

They are out on the picket line right now. Man I hate to see this. I work for Chrysler and I hope we dont go. This is not good news for Michigan's economy. They're stuck on retiree health care. I hope they settle soon and get a fair deal.

[mitrrophybowhunter]

I agree

Just talked to my dad right now. He is at home due to the strike, works at the truck plant in Pontiac as skilled trades. I hope they come to a fair agreement soon.

You are right........this is really going to hurt Michigan. Not just the GM people but all the suppliers as well.

They need to come to a fair deal for both parties.

[stevebeilgard]

i'm one who thinks it's the unions that are ruining the country. sorry, guys. i want a choice. i've been union, and i've been non union. i don't see the need for a union any longer. and, fact is, vehicles have gone up 8-10% a year, every year. way ahead of the rest of inflation.

[Shaun_300]

Yeah I heard that on the radio this morning, lots of jobs in jeapordy! I work for GM, but at a dealer so I think I'm safe. There will always be vehicles to fix!

[Mirage]

it cost gm a couple of BILLION dollars when the last strike came up hope they get it resolved real soon.

I like the union and hope the unions get what they want!

[Nick]

Well, best case scenario since we are a supplier for GM is that they lay me off for October and November. IF ya know what I mean.

[Randyman]

As a Union Steelworker for U. S. Steel, i hope they can come together for an agreement that benefits both sides. The Big Three Automakers are some of U. S. Steel's biggest customers, so it benefits me to see this thing resolved in a manner that is beneficial to BOTH parties.

[unioncountyslayer]

They're tired of making ugly trucks.

[Nick]

They're tired of making ugly trucks.

So ugly that they sold more Silverados than the Ford F-series trucks and Dodge Rams.

[snapper]

Heard they've reached a tenitive agreement?

[wtnhunt]

Heard they've reached a tenitive agreement?

Yep, saw an article on that this morning, but have not gone back yet and read the details.

[craig mack]

They say they have reached a tenitive agreement but it still has to be ratified by the members. They havent givin to many details. I just hope its fair for everyone. We dont need anymore jobs leaving this country.

[Michihunter]

2nd shift is back at work.

[unioncountyslayer]

So ugly that they sold more Silverados than the Ford F-series trucks and Dodge Rams.

Hate to tell ya Nick, but you're wrong. Over 500,000 sold last year, more than any other vehicle. Keep dreaming Chevy man. Those "cat eye" headlights really put a dent in chevy's sales.

[Newarcher]

i'm one who thinks it's the unions that are ruining the country. sorry, guys. i want a choice. i've been union, and i've been non union. i don't see the need for a union any longer. and, fact is, vehicles have gone up 8-10% a year, every year. way ahead of the rest of inflation.

Amen buddy....I know a retired GM worker who is laid up with strokes that has 24x7 care all on the GM dime along with a suite of retiree benefits that most working people aspire to have while working. I have never come close.

Unions take from those who built something from nothing and extort it from them. There are high school educated workers on assembly lines right now that make more than I do with a Master's degree. Sorry, the unions tinker with the supply and demand equation and don't let the market work.

Further, unions take the member's money and then often become nothing but a giant political machine that spends the union member's money on candidates the member might not endorse personally.

Unions are PRECISELY one of the largest contributors to the economic problems in Michigan right now.

p.s. if you are union, more power to you. I know some trades and jobs can't be had unless you are union.

New

[PotashRLS]

i'm one who thinks it's the unions that are ruining the country. sorry, guys. i want a choice. i've been union, and i've been non union. i don't see the need for a union any longer. and, fact is, vehicles have gone up 8-10% a year, every year. way ahead of the rest of inflation.

I have to agree. A friend's brother worked for Chrysler. His job was to put 3 gallons of gas into the new vehicles as they came down the line. Thats it!!! He sat until another vehicle came along. He made $45 per hour plus benefits. He is retired in his mid 50s now with a bad back. Unions started out years and years ago for the right reasons, but today they are clearly driving prices beyond our affordability and forcing companies to move overseas. It is the sad truth. Something has to give. God Bless America!

[craig mack]

I always laugh when I hear people say that they know someone who works for the UAW and they do little to no work. I wish those people would come and work at my plant, I guarantee you would walk away with a different view. Dont get me wrong there are a few jobs that are very easy but those are reserved for someone who was injured on the job or for someone with 35+ years of service. And those jobs are going away, they wont be there when I have that kind of time in.

[Newarcher]

I always laugh when I hear people say that they know someone who works for the UAW and they do little to no work. I wish those people would come and work at my plant, I guarantee you would walk away with a different view. Dont get me wrong there are a few jobs that are very easy but those are reserved for someone who was injured on the job or for someone with 35+ years of service. And those jobs are going away, they wont be there when I have that kind of time in.

I want to make sure my comments are not being taken out of context. Union workers work very hard and I would never say a union worker is lazy. Now the union bosses, they are a different story. My wife's uncle I mentioned previously has no knees left after years of putting bumpers on them to bolt them onto cars.

My problem with the union is certainly not with the workers, it is with the concept of the union itself. My problem is this....you start a business with your blood, sweat, tears, and significant sacrifice. You work unGodly hours and don't buy the new cars and take the vacations that your friends and family do. You work your butt off and put your money and your existence on the line. Suddenly, it begins to pay off through growth and you start doing well. You are paying your people well, FMV for their services and providing decent benefits. Suddenly they decide it isn't enough and unionize on you. Once they decide to try to unionize, you are screwed. You can't fire them for it because of federal law. So you can't come to terms and they decide that they will shut your business down via a strike. Eventually, you have to cave to their demands or go out of business. That's wrong folks. That is no different than me extorting your business.

It artificially inflates wages, increases the cost of products to the consumer, and is all around bad for the economy, IMHO.

New

[Michihunter]

I want to make sure my comments are not being taken out of context. Union workers work very hard and I would never say a union worker is lazy. Now the union bosses, they are a different story. My wife's uncle I mentioned previously has no knees left after years of putting bumpers on them to bolt them onto cars.

My problem with the union is certainly not with the workers, it is with the concept of the union itself. My problem is this....you start a business with your blood, sweat, tears, and significant sacrifice. You work unGodly hours and don't buy the new cars and take the vacations that your friends and family do. You work your butt off and put your money and your existence on the line. Suddenly, it begins to pay off through growth and you start doing well. You are paying your people well, FMV for their services and providing decent benefits. Suddenly they decide it isn't enough and unionize on you. Once they decide to try to unionize, you are screwed. You can't fire them for it because of federal law. So you can't come to terms and they decide that they will shut your business down via a strike. Eventually, you have to cave to their demands or go out of business. That's wrong folks. That is no different than me extorting your business.

It artificially inflates wages, increases the cost of products to the consumer, and is all around bad for the economy, IMHO.

New

But what you are forgetting is that the REASON unions were formed originally was because OWNERS extorted their workers.

[Tominator]

Man, maybe this thread should be moved to the political room.

I'm union, but I have to be. To be honest, there are parts that I like, and parts that I don't like. I've seen a few good teachers shoved out of a district because a board member had an axe to grind and went after them. Heck, it just happened this past year. Our softball coach is in the state hall of fame, and district hall of fame, has over 300 career wins, championships out the wazoo, has had a winning season for over 25 years, and a board member (whose daughter happened to not get enough playing time) made life really tough for her, so she resigned. Now what kind of sense is that?

Anyway, I'm off topic. Glad to see the GM strike was resolved so quickly. My dad's a salaried retiree, so he's not affected unless GM goes out of business.

[stevebeilgard]

But what you are forgetting is that the REASON unions were formed originally was because OWNERS extorted their workers.

yep. it was that way. and airplanes had 2 wings, and televisions weren't invented... things have changed

[Newarcher]

But what you are forgetting is that the REASON unions were formed originally was because OWNERS extorted their workers.

No doubt, there was a time when we were stuffing kids into pipes to clean them.

Unions do have their place though. There are some industries like coal mining where I prefer the union be there. Otherwise, workers may be harmed by the mine owners. For situations like that, I have no problems with unions.

Today, unions have become less about protecting the rights of the employees (the government has largely made laws that protect employees) and has become more about protecting itself and politics.

Don't get me started on the NEA, Tominator. It is my personal opinion that the NEA should be classified as a pseudo terrorist organization! Not because of its members but because of its stances on education reform and its protection of substandard teachers who should go. We had one last year. Again, I love teachers and think that they should be paid much more, but I hate that union.

New

[Tominator]

Don't get me started on the NEA, Tominator. It is my personal opinion that the NEA should be classified as a pseudo terrorist organization! Not because of its members but because of its stances on education reform and its protection of substandard teachers who should go. We had one last year. Again, I love teachers and think that they should be paid much more, but I hate that union.

New

I wouldn't get you started on anything New, trust me.

Like anything else, there's good and bad with everything. There's a lot of liberals in the NEA, and I am not one of them. In fact, they are a small minority in my area. I dare say you don't know the half of "education reform." Protecting substandard teachers is on the way out too. On that part, I agree with you. I don't know why anyone would want to be a teacher now. In Ohio, you have to have your master's within 5 years, (unfunded mandate) pass 3 or 4 tests (unfunded mandate) just to teach for the first year, pass another one after your first year (Praxis), and then run the gauntlet of 1 and 2 year contracts until you get your master's. All for the whopping salary of around $30,000 to start. Then, after that, you get to renew your license every 5 years with no chance of tenure. Tenure is a thing of the past in Ohio, so you either teach or you're out, period. If a district (read parents/administration/board) keeps a substandard teacher around, it's their own fault.

But that's Ohio, so I don't know about other states.

Don't get me started.

[Newarcher]

I wouldn't get you started on anything New, trust me.

Like anything else, there's good and bad with everything. There's a lot of liberals in the NEA, and I am not one of them. In fact, they are a small minority in my area. I dare say you don't know the half of "education reform." Protecting substandard teachers is on the way out too. On that part, I agree with you. I don't know why anyone would want to be a teacher now. In Ohio, you have to have your master's within 5 years, (unfunded mandate) pass 3 or 4 tests (unfunded mandate) just to teach for the first year, pass another one after your first year (Praxis), and then run the gauntlet of 1 and 2 year contracts until you get your master's. All for the whopping salary of around $30,000 to start. Then, after that, you get to renew your license every 5 years with no chance of tenure. Tenure is a thing of the past in Ohio, so you either teach or you're out, period. If a district (read parents/administration/board) keeps a substandard teacher around, it's their own fault.

But that's Ohio, so I don't know about other states.

Don't get me started.

I wouldn't want to be a teacher either....you forgot the part about putting up with other people's disrespectful DNA!

Again, love teachers and HATE THAT UNION.

Specifically, I hate their stance on allowing choice in education. If only we could run public schools like the University system, I think we would be the greatest school system in the world. Why? Well, choice and competition ALWAYS...I repeat ALWAYS...results in better products and better customer service to the recipient. If your child gets a horrible teacher (we had the worst on the face of the planet for 2nd grade last year) and the principal is protecting the teacher from disciplinary action, you leave. When enough students go elsewhere, suddenly that principal has to listen and make the changes. Why...generally speaking...education better in private schools than public schools? Accountability is why. Accountability for the product, the staff, and what the student learns. If you sit and surf the internet all day while the students almost demolish the classroom (it is your last year and you are retiring), then you would be justifyably FIRED. But choice in schools flies in the face of Government dependence which seems the way of most Americans these days......"provide my 'free' healthcare, no matter how bad it becomes", "teach my children no matter how bad their education", "Don't make me responsible for my own retirement--despite the fact that everyone on all sides agrees it will not be there when I get ready for retirement--just keep on deducting those payments from my paycheck".

But again, Tominator, I would be proud to have my child in your class and respect you and all other teachers (well, maybe except for last year's). So please don't take this as a smear of all teachers or even all public school teachers. My problem is more with the administration and the union.

New

[Adjam5]

Less than 11% of American work force is Unionized. For that amount of workers you are blaming the cost increases of everything? PULEEESE.....Very little is manufactured here in the US anymore. Not even heavy durable goods( fridges, wash machs ect) are still being made here. There are no environmental rules in other countries like there are in the US. China can just dump waste in the river, try doing that here in the US. Thats where all the jobs are going.

Maybe all of the unions workers should not make good wages and go on gov't assistance and instead of being solid contributors, to the economy and community of which they live. Union haters would want them to work for migrant wages. There is a standard of living that need to be up kept and thats where unions come in.

The best trained workers in the world are union workers.

And your right about the continued health care of union workers. After they retire they should just die after 25- 35-40 years of service being exposed to all kinds of hazards and health risks, and not cause any more drain on society. Right? Starting with all the UNION workers who responded at Ground Zero...for free.

Any idea of how much they are gonna cost society? The heck with benefits for the retired and sick.

Thats just one example. How about the people working with asbestos/mercury/silica before there were safety standards/knowledge in place? Construction workers working around diesel exhaust all day( a known carcinogen).Sorry see ya... heath care is way too much for ya. Dang unions ruin everything.

See, as much as unions may be a idea of the past, look at how important they are to keeping the robber barons of today in line. No one addressed how much the CEO's make...only the little guy makes too much. Weather or not you want to believe it, unions make it better for everyone. They established minimum wage, health care for workers, worker compensation and OSHA enforcement. All of which the non union benefit from.

So next time you, as a non union worker enjoy ANY kind of worker benefit ; optical, dental, medical, 401K or just something so simple as a bathroom break, thank the unions who brought that standard into everyday jobs.

"Unions the people who brought you the weekend"

Because if it was up the bosses, you'd work a 7 day 18 hour a day all at straight time and have NO bennies.

Unions have a place in todays society...now more than ever. Just ask the office worker who was down sized and had NO union to go cry to. Its happening all over.

For the record... I am a 22 year member of the IBEW, Local 3 NYC journeyman wireman electrician who gets sick every election year. If I vote the union, almost always democrat , I help take guns and hunting rights away from us all, because thats what they do. If I vote republican, I help preserve our hunting and shooting; but I hurt my ability to earn, because republicans are no friends of unions.

Life is no easy task.

I guess it really depends on where your from as to weather or not unions are a good thing. They have done good for myself and my family. I can't knock it. Just the horrible cast of characters/politicians unions have chosen to support.