CWD, Scents, and Deer. Some More Facts!

[LifeNRA]

Since some areas are making deer lures illegal. I have been seeing and reading several web sites explaining why these scents are being illegal. Although, I still not agree 100%! There are still some things I need to learn. Thought I would share the info I have found, maybe to help explain why the Nova Scotia is doing what they are doing. I think they are finding that these PRIONS are in the urine.

Soil particles found to boost prion’s capacity to infect

July 6, 2007

by Terry Devitt

The rogue proteins that cause chronic wasting disease (CWD) exhibit a dramatic increase in their infectious nature when bound to common soil particles, according to a new study.

Writing in the journal Public Library of Science (PLoS) Pathogens, a group led by University of Wisconsin-Madison prion expert Judd Aiken reports that prions, the protein agents of a family of fatal brain disorders, bind tightly to a common soil mineral and significantly increase the oral transmissibility of the agent.

The finding is important because it may help explain how chronic wasting disease and scrapie persist in the environment and spread efficiently in animal populations.

"We found a huge difference between infectious agent alone and infectious agent bound to these soil particles," says Aiken, the senior author of the new study and a professor of comparative biosciences in the UW-Madison School of Veterinary Medicine. "We observed an almost 700-fold difference" in the rate of infection.

Prions are an abnormal form of a protein produced normally by the body. Tough as nails, they can persist in the environment for long periods of time and retain their infectious capabilities. It is believed that prions may persist in the soil around the carcasses of dead animals and other locations where infected animals shed the protein in body fluids.

"These disease agents can stay out there for years and stay infectious," Aiken explains. And herbivores such as deer and sheep, which are susceptible to prion infection, tend to consume a fair amount of dirt daily as they graze and forage. They are also known to consume soil as a source of minerals. Mineral licks are frequented by many animals, raising the prospect that the agents may become concentrated in the soil.

Relatively little is known about the routes of prion transmission in animals, but the new Wisconsin study may help to resolve one puzzle: Oral transmission of prions, says Aiken, tends not to be very efficient.

"This is a dichotomy in our field, and maybe (the new research) is part of the answer." In their studies, the Wisconsin researchers looked at the ability of prions to bind to different types of common soil minerals. One, known as montmorillonite, is a type of clay and prions seem to have a special affinity for latching onto the microscopic particles.

"We expected the binding of the montmorillonite to be the highest among the minerals we examined.

However, we were surprised by the strength of the binding," notes Joel Pedersen, a UW-Madison professor of soil science who helped direct the new study.

The Wisconsin team also looked at the ability of the prion to bind to two other common soil minerals: quartz and kaolinite, another common clay mineral.

"We found binding of the abnormal protein to all three," says Aiken, "but the binding to montmorillonite was very avid, very tight. We found it very difficult to remove the prions from the montmorillonite."

Feeding the prion-mineral mix to hamsters, a common animal model for prion disease, Aiken's team expected to see a lower rate of infection than animals dosed with pure agent. Surprisingly, prions bound to montmorillonite were significantly more infectious than prions alone.

"We thought the binding might decrease infectivity," Aiken explains. "In each case, you add montmorillonite and we get more animals sicker and quicker than in the absence of montmorillonite clay."

What is occurring in soils in the woods and on the farm is unknown, says Pedersen, but the new findings may help begin to answer some key questions about how prions survive in the soil and retain their infectious nature, sometimes for years.

In the case of scrapie, the prion disease of sheep, observations of sheep pastures in the United Kingdom and Iceland have shown that animals introduced into pastures that once held infected animals could become infected. Infectivity of prions was also enhanced when they were bound to whole soil.

"Since the 1940s it's been known that 'infected pastures' have the ability to infect new animals," according to Aiken. Pedersen notes that soils are a complex mixture of organic and inorganic components that vary across the landscape and that scientists are just beginning to tease out factors in soils that may contribute to transmissibility. The new study implies, he says, "that some soils may promote the transmission of the prion agent more readily than others."

Why that's the case is unknown, Pedersen explains, but the Wisconsin team is exploring several hypotheses: that the soil particles might somehow protect the prion from degradation in the digestive system, that prions bound to clay might change the route or degree of uptake of the agent, or that the mineral somehow alters the size of prion aggregates, which have been shown to be more infectious than prions alone.

Aiken emphasizes there's still much to learn about routes of prion transmission, and the role of soil is just beginning to be explored.

"Soil is a very complex medium and we don't know what the agent is binding to" in natural or agricultural settings, Aiken says. "We do know that soil is not the only way it transmits. Animal-to-animal transmission is important, too."

In addition to Aiken and Pedersen, authors of the PLoS Pathogens paper include Christopher J. Johnson, Rick J. Chappell and Debbie McKenzie. The work was supported by a grant from the U.S. Department of Defense.

http://www.news.wisc.edu/13918

I will add more as I find them out!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion

http://www.wildlifeinformation.org/Subdirectories_for_Search2/SampleTechs/O_cwd05understprions.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_wasting_disease

Here are 107,000 possibilities in a Google search for PRIONS & CWD.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=prions+and+CWD

Would somebody make this a sticky for a while? Thanks!

John

[Brad6639]

CWD is a joke, Ive played along with the Wi Dnr for 5 years through all of this, and they areant finding many deer at all with the disease, yet they continue to waste millions of dollars each year on it. They have managed to tick off nearly every sort of hunter in Wi to the point people that live here are going to other states to hunt instead of hunting here and playing the game. Im sure there are sick deer out there, and Im sure they are in all 50 states, but it isnt something that is spreading like they said it is. Im sure there are many other diseases that kill deer each year besides cwd.

[LifeNRA]

CWD is a joke, Ive played along with the Wi Dnr for 5 years through all of this, and they areant finding many deer at all with the disease, yet they continue to waste millions of dollars each year on it. They have managed to tick off nearly every sort of hunter in Wi to the point people that live here are going to other states to hunt instead of hunting here and playing the game. Im sure there are sick deer out there, and Im sure they are in all 50 states, but it isnt something that is spreading like they said it is. Im sure there are many other diseases that kill deer each year besides cwd.

This is no joke! Along with every other disease that will kill deer! You honestly think that the Game, or DNR's offices are doing this just to p off the hunters? LMBO!!!!! Be for real! First off, if there is no more deer, these departments will be out of business! So will the hunters!

[NS whitetail]

Thanks for looking that up John, when I get a chance, I'm going to read through it all

[dfol20]

Thanks for the info. It was interesting. I wrote a research paper on Prion diseases and they are very strange. And Brad, if you think the research into CWD is a joke, and a waste of money you are entitled to your opinion. But realize CWD is extremely similar and equally mysterious as many other prion disease that not only affect wildlife but domestic animals and humans. These types of diseases are rare in humans, therefore the ability to study the disease if difficult. However, in wildlife they are much more common, and can be studied more readily. If money spent on researching CWD can protect our natural resources, and also protect people then I think it is worth it.

[Brad6639]

Its easy to sit back and read about it from a different state, but like I said, Ive put up with this for 5 years now. I fully supported it the first two years, but when you are having sharpshooters (some sharpshooters they are, they left a full box of .308 shells laying in our feild), coming by at night and shooting deer at night over bait piles (and then being caught only taking the trophy bucks or bucks in velvet), flying helecopters low trying to herd deer onto landowners properties that do allow the sharpshooters etc, its a problem. The first year they did this, they had earn a buck, and people would go shoot the first antlerless deer they saw, and then hey would register them and just dump them in a pile and drive off. I saw piles of probly 1,000 animals just heaped up to be burned. That is way more of a waste then any disease is, because the majority of them wouldnt have been shot, and the ones that were would have been used. Colorado has had cwd for 35 years, and they are not taking the drastic measures Wi has, we have been featured in tons of magazines and have been made out to be the laughing stock of the nation. Ive lived this, its bad yes, but shooting 100's of thousands of does just to get a buck tag and then heaping the rest is way worse. Im no stranger to this, and I feel bad for the deer, but like any other thing, it will take its course.

P.s. Its so bad here that you often times cant do what you want with a deer because of their strict testing policies. Last year I wanted to do a eauropean mount on my 8 pointer, and was forced into either doing a head mount, or a plaque mount or letting them hold on to my head until they were done testing it (6 to 8 weeks), and then me driving to Milwaukee to go get my head thats mine in the first place. Like my taxidermist really wants to play with a head thats been off a deer and left to rot for 6 to 8 weeks. It also sucks having your deer liscense fee's raised and your restrictions increasing. We have around 15 diffrent tagging options in Wi, and about 10 of them are in my area. Its very sad when you have to call the Dnr to figure out how to tag your deer.

[wtnhunt]

Have seen similar articles in the past. Problem with all this IF the theories hold true, is that deer do use oral secretions in their day to day life and eliminating mineral licks, scents, and other such possible modes of transmission might cut back the number of infected animals, deer will still pass along possibly infected secretions via licking branches, feeding and what have you. So with expecting to slow the transmission the removal of those modes used by hunters might be a good idea if it really is spread that way, however they cannot expect to contain the disease as animals will continue to pass along to each other through their normal day to day feeding and activities.

[LifeNRA]

Its easy to sit back and read about it from a different state

No its not! Because every state AROUND PENNSYLVANIA I believe has found some case of CWD! The just haven't found that one deer yet that has it. But I am sure it will soon happen! Its just a matter of time!

I didn't post this to start any arguments, only to try and help educate on how this disease is capable of being transmitted!

Think about it? Is it possible that the deer lures being made today might have CWD on there property? Are these PRIONS in their fields or pens waiting to be ingested, only to start the process all over again? Again, not trying to start an argument!

[Brad6639]

Im not trying to start an argument either, thats the last thing I want, all Im saying is I was super concerned about CWD for two years, and then when I saw what it does and all the money that we have wasted and been ridiculed in every major outdoor magazine, it made me less concerned. It doesnt spread like our biologists thought. I think in 5 years like 146 or so have tested positive. We havest around 400,000 deer per year. When you multiply 400,000 times 5 (5 years), and you come up with 146 confirmed cases, its so minute that it isnt worth talking about. More deer probly get hit by lightning each year then die from cwd. Like i said, Im right in the heart of this entire thing, I have seen what it has become, and to me it isnt worth spending billions of dollars a year to have a handful test positive each year for cwd. I heard that the tests cost 60 bucks per deer, and we have tested millions of them. You do the math on that one, but it is just a pain in Wisconsin's side that the DNR wont drop. The funny thing was back in 2000, there was a brocure that the DNR had out saying how we needed to find a way to reduce the antlerless deer herd, and then the next year CWd comes out and suddenly tons of antlerless deer are getting shot, which we did need, but we didnt need to shoot them and heap them up to be burned and wasted. It is a discrage in Wi and Im against it because nothing is changing and we keep having new laws made every year making it even harder to shoot deer. There basically is no bowseason anymore, they went and let everyone start rifle hunting in the middle of the rut which totally snubs their noses at bowhunters. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and debate is great, all Im saying is Ive lived this for 5 years and seen nothing happening except millions of dollars being wasted and the deer are as healthy as they ever were.

[TreeWalker]

EVERYBODY better keep this is a civil debate, or the minute it becomes heated, this thread will be axed......

CWD is a population disease, and until D&R and G&F departments quit managing for funds, and instead actually manage populations, you are not goinhg to see a reduction in occurences. Why do you think you are starting to see Blue Tongue even in states that have never heard of it before.......the deer herds are populated beyond that of the habitat that is supposed to sustain them.......in turn Mother Nature is doing what man isn't, controlling the deer population through natural disease.......

The banning of baiting and lures will not reduce the rate.....Colorado and Wyoming are proof of that. Nebraska is a perfect example of a state agressively attacking the problem and making giant steps in erradicating the disease....and they still allow baiting and lures......

Remember, CWD was first documented well over 20 years ago........it is nothing new. and recent history has shown that states that have banned baitiing and lures, thinking it is the "cause", have not seen a reduction in cases.............

Colorado or Wyoming (can't remember which without looking)had documented that they beleived the disease was actually being transferred at water holes during dry stretches........and that it could possibly be trasmitted via insect.....flies and mosquitos ?!?!? Adds a whole other dimension doesn't it ?!?!?

Like you LNRA, I know quite a bit about this topic, because I researched CWD extensively and spoke with many wildlife biologists, as we formulated argument to fight a legislative bill this past season, that would have banned baiting.......we won.

Just remember what looks good on paper, ain't necessarily what happens in the wild........deer will congregate whether baiting and luring is banned or not. They are a social animal. And as long has you have to many numbers, you are going to have disease and a rate of transmission........and if by some means we were able to do away with CWD and EHD, it would just be something else.......mother nature just takes care of business.

[LifeNRA]

Just remember what looks good on paper, ain't necessarily what happens in the wild........deer will congregate whether baiting and luring is banned or not. They are a social animal. And as long has you have to many numbers, you are going to have disease and a rate of transmission........and if by some means we were able to do away with CWD and EHD, it would just be something else.......mother nature just takes care of business.

This explains why PA is trying to drop the heard numbers. Maybe they are trying to keep CWD out of PA by means of reducing their numbers. Thing are starting to click now!

[TreeWalker]

If that is the case, then PA ranks with Nebraska as the only two states I know of aggresively trying to control the population, instead of their pocketbooks.....good for them.

Wisconsin would have ranked in there, but they tried only managing those deer that had the disease or were in disease zones, with kill-offs.......I think they are catching on though.

[wtnhunt]

If that is the case, then PA ranks with Nebraska as the only two states I know of aggresively trying to control the population, instead of their pocketbooks.....good for them.

While there is no cases of cwd reported here, parts of this state they are very aggresively trying to control or uh wipe out the population. Last year if I remember correctly there were 15 counties with liberal limits. They expanded the liberal units out to I think 40 counties. We were moved into the liberal unit this year as well where the limits on antlerless deer is up to 3 a day for the entirity of the season. This in a county where it has been suggested that the density is 15 deer per sq mile. With seasons running from late September into early January, there is no question the herd here will take a significant hit.

Tennessee you do not pay per tag, you have your license fees for each type of weapon, if you hunt one of these counties and have license for all three type of weapons you can hunt as much as you want and take as many deer as you want up to 3 a day plus you statewide allowed 3 bucks. Dont think it is about collecting more for tags or fees here, but would not doubt the insurance companies have something to do with this.

[Brad6639]

I just wish Wi would do something diffrent. They have used to same teqnique for 5 years and it has been proven that its not working at all. We have followed their rules that are intended to lower the numbers or "Eradicate" them as they call it. We have played along with thier dumb rules and earn a bucks and all of that, and whats the result, the biggest deer herd We have ever had, and they were the ones that admitted that! We have spent millions of dollars on this, and as a result we have more deer now then what we started with, Id say its time for a change. ..............