Fred's fizzlin'

[Newarcher]

I must say that I was really excited to see Fred enter the race but he is fizzling.

Whether that is the media keeping mum about him or just him, I haven't heard much and what I heard hasn't been pleasing.

He went and spoke to the Florida GOP and only spoke about 5 minutes...leaving everyone saying "is that it?".

I like him and I really like his message but this doesn't look great at this point.

New

[stevebeilgard]

he sure has been quiet. maybe he can only read scripts.... i too, was anxious to hear whate he had to say, and so far am pretty disappointed

[wtnhunt]

Dont hardly think that I would say he is "fizzlin'" New. Maybe he had other obligations, http://www.usnews.com/blogs/news-desk/2007/10/19/thompson-woos-values-voters.html. Dont think he is losing any ground on Giuliani either.

[Newarcher]

I don't know, wtnhunt.

Here's my point....there is reality and there is perception. I have heard Fred's message before and it is good old common sense that resonates with most people outside of the population centers. Mainstream America will lap it up, I believe. But even as a supporter, my general off the cuff gut feeling about Fred is that he isn't taking the lead and isn't out acting like the front runner. It almost has a feel of hesitancy. Again, maybe the pro-hillary media is suppressing him but just as the media cedes the primary to Hillary, they too seem to be ceeding the primary to Rudy.

I hate to say it, but I am left scratching my head wondering if Fred isn't vying for a VP slot somewhere. I hope I am wrong and I hope that he really picks up some steam and starts making headway.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071022/ap_po/thompson_ap_interview_2

In this interview he almost seems defiant about the expectations of the voters and supporters. Almost like, "my way or the highway". That may squeek him by in the primary but man it will kill him in the general.

New

[wtnhunt]

Here are a few links on this topic that might interest you and anyone else New

http://fredfile.fred08.com/blog/2007/morning-post-debate-reaction/

http://www.fred08.com/virtual/Immigration.aspx

Link to some video clips

http://www.fred08.com/FredCast/FredCastSummary.aspx

[Newarcher]

Here are a few links on this topic that might interest you and anyone else New

http://fredfile.fred08.com/blog/2007/morning-post-debate-reaction/

http://www.fred08.com/virtual/Immigration.aspx

Link to some video clips

http://www.fred08.com/FredCast/FredCastSummary.aspx

Exactly my point.

Instead of being out there trumpeting how the Democrats and other Rrpublicans have no plan for illegal immigration (which IMHO will be the deciding factor in the election--unfortunately a close second to hillary's gender)....Fred is having to answer questions about his perceived laziness and unorthodoxed campaign strategy. It is like the old addage that if you let the sun set on a lie it becomes truth. If the majority of the press on Fred is that he isn't into the campaign and Fred is being asked more about that than his issues...he has lost. I hope he can change this image.

I plan on voting for Fred in the primary....I love the man and and message. I am getting worried though that he isn't doing the right things right.

New

[wtnhunt]

Instead of being out there trumpeting how the Democrats and other Rrpublicans have no plan for illegal immigration (which IMHO will be the deciding factor in the election--unfortunately a close second to hillary's gender)....Fred is having to answer questions about his perceived laziness and unorthodoxed campaign strategy.

Shortly after I posted those links New, I heard on the news this morning that Fred has gotten a little more aggressive on his views of Giuliani and how Giuliani and Clinton are very similar, which is also shown to some extent in one of those links. Think it is expected nowadays to see candidates out attacking their opponents and we have not really seen that from Fred, he answers questions straightforward though every time he is asked, and does not dodge any questions. I don't think it is too late for him to get aggressive in campaigning and on sharing his stances on issues and his plans. Think his style is not to be so vocal with personal attacks as we have seen in the past, but instead to discuss the issues, not sure how that turns into the perception of laziness??? Maybe just maybe voters will appreciate that and it will be reflected in the election.

[Newarcher]

Shortly after I posted those links New, I heard on the news this morning that Fred has gotten a little more aggressive on his views of Giuliani and how Giuliani and Clinton are very similar, which is also shown to some extent in one of those links. Think it is expected nowadays to see candidates out attacking their opponents and we have not really seen that from Fred, he answers questions straightforward though every time he is asked, and does not dodge any questions. I don't think it is too late for him to get aggressive in campaigning and on sharing his stances on issues and his plans. Think his style is not to be so vocal with personal attacks as we have seen in the past, but instead to discuss the issues, not sure how that turns into the perception of laziness??? Maybe just maybe voters will appreciate that and it will be reflected in the election.

I agree....Fred answers questions like a statesman. He is concise and doesn't have to engage in doubletalk.

I think Fred is our only chance of beating Hillary. If Rudy is the candidate, we will lose. You already have the religious right saying that "even if Hillary is elected as a result, we will not vote for Rudy". That was from James Dobson... http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/17/giuliani.dobson/index.html. Again, darn the result, I will not vote for anyone favoring abortion...even...if...it...means...someone...much...more...left wins. I hate abortion but electing Hillary by staying home won't solve anything. In fact it will make it worse. I love James Dobson but he has to look at the big picture. A Hillary win and this Country will embark down the slippery slope on sloalom skis. Isn't the Christian aim to defeat evil? I firmly believe that Hillary and her beloved Socialism are pure evil so isn't staying home helping evil win the day? Rudy also isn't doing well with the NRA that didn't like his little phone call in the middle of the speech stunt or his confusing the 4th and 2nd ammmendment during the speech (which is what I think the call was...an attempt to save him from the blunder). Rudy might siphon off some of the anti-Clinton liberal vote but not enough, IMHO, to overcome the anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-gun control single issue voters who are looking to make a statement.

My hope is that when Clinton is elected, we hand her a Republican controlled Congress. With the approval rating at 11% and a significant majority democratic Congress that is a real possibility. If she gets in with a Democratic congress, look for severe tax increases and citizenship for the illegals...which will further guarantee Democratic control for a long time.

Sad! So hopefully Fred picks up some steam and rolls over Rudy (who I think would be a great leader but is too liberal to rally the conservatives and single issue voters).

New

[wtnhunt]

Dont know New, seems a lot of the candidates are aiming their sites on Hillary, both republican and democrats alike. She may lose some of her popularity before this is all over with. I hold on to my hopes that Thompson beats Giuliani and gets in the White house.

[toddpipkin]

Have any of you Fredheads taken a real look at Mike Huckabee and/or Duncan Hunter?

Fred has some serious problems with his stance on the blatantly unconstitutional McCain-Feingold act (campaign finance and the blackout of advertising before an election by issue-oriented groups.) The act was passed specifically to stop the NRA (and other similar narrowly focused groups) from using it's clout to get ISSUES before the public, so they would ask questions and get the candidates' TRUE opinions and records on important issues.

[wtnhunt]

Have any of you Fredheads taken a real look at Mike Huckabee and/or Duncan Hunter?

Yep, sure have, but dont think Huckabee or Hunter either one are electable at this point in time.

[Newarcher]

Yep, sure have, but dont think Huckabee or Hunter either one are electable at this point in time.

Exactly.

No candidate is going to be perfect...I like a lot about what Huckabee has to say as well but no one thinks he has a shot. He certainly cannot beat Hillary. Fred is the best shot, despite supporting McCain / Feingold (two absolute traitors to our Country and its Constitution).

I am with you wtnhunt, I am pushing hard for Thompson and perhaps much will change with regards to the election during the general.

If I were Thompson or whomever debates her in the election, I wouldn't miss an opportunity to look right in the cameras and say "Folks, everyone stop what you are doing out there in America and look at me...right here (point to his eyes)....this woman standing beside me is a socialist. I want to make you aware of some of the statements that have been made by Mrs. Clinton that prove she is a socialist". Then I would rattle off her absurd statements about confiscating oil company wealth to provide poor people funding, how some things would have to be taken from some for the benefit of the rest, and so on. There are no shortages of Hillary comments that are 100% socialism. Then I would rattle off what Socialism has brought the world. I wouldn't let up until the last ballot was cast.

I really fear that there are so many single women and single mothers willing to fall for Hillary's nonsense that she is almost unstoppable. The middle class is being pinched very hard and many are looking for help....I hope Socialism isn't going to be their answer. God help us I pray.

New

[toddpipkin]

...dont think Huckabee or Hunter either one are electable...

You think Fred is?

[Newarcher]

You think Fred is?

Sure, I think he is. I think he will be a VERY good alternative to Hillary across the heartland and especially in the Southeast. I suspect that half of the liberal Northeast will confuse Law and Order with 24 and think that they are voting for him for American idol!

But you bring up a huge point. Right now, the Republican machine is DEAD. I mean DEAD. I haven't heard anything from the leaders of the party. I mean NOTHING. Dennis Hastert was more vocal than boner. There seems to be zero coordination from the top. Zero drive. Zero communication of their vision. I think that spells significant defeat in the Presidential. Also, there are SEVERAL Republicans resigning their seats in the House that will result in possibly more victories for democrats to get those seats. Then the whole Larry Craig debacle....that guy just needs to disappear from public life. I think that the leaders didn't rally around him and he is out to harm them next year.

New

[wtnhunt]

You think Fred is?

Yep, absolutely. I believe he can and will win the nomination and the election.

I like Huckabee, just dont think he really has the national recognition yet, kind of think that is being reflected in the polls that are out there.

[OJR]

The only way that I would vote for Fred is if he is running against Hillary or Dennis Whatever!

[Newarcher]

See, this is what I am talking about....

http://newsmax.com/insidecover/thompson_ap_interview/2007/10/24/43545.html

Fred's campaign should be like a train picking up steam. "Gee, I dunno what's going on at the local levels". While that may be exactly true...it STILL looks like he is uncoordinated and he is answering questions about why things seem to keep getting derailed.

Charlie Rangle and his Ways and Means Committee just announced their plan for 2009 is to give us the greatest tax increase in US History via letting Bush's tax cuts expire (you know the ones that only affect the upper 1%--despite everyone with kids getting a $1,000 tax CREDIT per child). So kiss all of your tax cuts and credits goodbye and welcome a LOT more new taxes with Hillary's "We're going to take some things away from you for the common good" mentality if she is elected with a Democratic majority congress. The best thing that could happen would be a revolt...which is possible. People are failing right now due to bad mortgages, etc. and any party that talks of taking away the tax cuts the WE ALL KNOW helped us might just backlash. Sending Rangel and Pelosi out before they get that chance would be brilliant. Also, if Hillary is elected, look for the amnesty plan to go through post-haste.

New

[wtnhunt]

"Gee, I dunno what's going on at the local levels". While that may be exactly true...it STILL looks like he is uncoordinated and he is answering questions about why things seem to keep getting derailed.

Where are you quoting this from? Not reading that from the article you linked. Looks like he had some people jump ship, and he has said he is dealing with it and having the people in his campaign deal with what they are supposed to.

[Newarcher]

Where are you quoting this from? Not reading that from the article you linked. Looks like he had some people jump ship, and he has said he is dealing with it and having the people in his campaign deal with what they are supposed to.

I was actually paraphrasing him....his exact comment is:

"You know, the campaign can address that. I can't really address who's doing -- and who was doing _ exactly what at every level of this campaign,"

I forgot the best part of the article is that one of the defectors joined the McCain campaign!

New

[nativetexan]

I think the republicans have future plans based on the failure of today's congress. In essence, falling back and re-grouping.

On the matter of the almost daily announcements of Republican old schoolers retiring, I think they just don't have the energy to put up with another few years of bickering.

This might pave the way for new/smarter republicans to slaughter the dems in the next round of congressional elections and win back both sides.

Who do I blame for the reason our congress is the way it is today? Clinton, Reid, Pelosi, Boxer, Kennedy, Schumer, and a few other liberal elites that prefer drama over common sense and lead this country further away from its foundation.

[Newarcher]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/06/wuspols106.xml

Exactly, his heart isn't in the race. Had he come out and taken the race away from Romney and Giuliani, he would be in first place.

He is talking like someone who got in the race as a joke, as a VP candidate, or as a person wanting to steer the Republicans back to the right.

Sad, but I think he is done. I don't think he has the energy and drive for this.

New

[wtnhunt]

Yep, because an overseas paper publishes such and other papers also happen to post negative comments, we all need to abandon our hopes and start proclaiming this country as socialist republic run under Hillary. That is what you want to hear right New:(.

Really think this kind of continued negativity by you and many like you only will bring forth the doom that you so desperately see coming. A shame so many hold the same type vision and instead of trying to raise hopes, have the same attitude, and they are already giving up:( in effect essentially handing over the reigns of this country to the communist/socialist democrats. If enough believe as you, there is no sense in this country even having an election. Lets all just go on and cry and give up, it is over right, nothing anyone can do about it as it is destined to take place.

[Newarcher]

Yep, because an overseas paper publishes such and other papers also happen to post negative comments, we all need to abandon our hopes and start proclaiming this country as socialist republic run under Hillary. That is what you want to hear right New:(.

Really think this kind of continued negativity by you and many like you only will bring forth the doom that you so desperately see coming. A shame so many hold the same type vision and instead of trying to raise hopes, have the same attitude, and they are already giving up:( in effect essentially handing over the reigns of this country to the communist/socialist democrats. If enough believe as you, there is no sense in this country even having an election. Lets all just go on and cry and give up, it is over right, nothing anyone can do about it as it is destined to take place.

IT HAPPENED ON FOXNEWS wtnhunt.

Really, I think your continued denial is absolutely astounding...almost quixote-esque. I didn't give up on Fred, he gave up on himself. He was my only hope of beating Hillary so yes, I HATE to see him go. But the truth is that he has been running as if he never believed it possible. The voters are telling him--and you--that they don't like the way he is running and he--and YOU--are telling them they are wrong for feeling that way. At some point, if he plans to win, he has to come around to the way the American voter expects him to campaign--even if that is against his desires.

So I really don't care what your opinion of my statements are. You can bury your head in the sand if you would like and call everything all right but that isn't reality. The stories that are running, the voters, and even his supporters are all saying the same thing "His HEART ISN'T IN IT" and his constantly having to answer the questions about his unconventional campaign taticts is eliminating Fred from getting what little message he appears ready to share with us out. When the politician is constantly having to defend himself by saying "I ain't lazy"....he has lost already. So I would submit that your constantly telling Fred's supporters--who want nothing but for Fred to step up and take the election from Hillary--that they are wrong and chastising them for being "NEGATIVE" is really getting a might bit old.

You would call me NEGATIVE and I would say you are ARROGANT. Telling the people who it will take to put Fred in office that they are wrong and being NEGATIVE because they are voiceing legitimate concerns is the height of arrogance. Further, it will ensure that Fred isn't going to make it past the primary at this rate.

[edited to add] I think I will try your technique the next time I make a mistake at work. "No, boss, it isn't that I messed up and sent the customer a piece of software full of bugs....it is that the negativity of yourself and the client has brought about that which you most seek--a product full of bugs". I think I might try that, it is true genius.

New

[wtnhunt]

Really, I think your continued denial is absolutely astounding...almost quixote-esque. I didn't give up on Fred, he gave up on himself. He was my only hope of beating Hillary so yes, I HATE to see him go. But the truth is that he has been running as if he never believed it possible. The voters are telling him--and you--that they don't like the way he is running and he--and YOU--are telling them they are wrong for feeling that way. At some point, if he plans to win, he has to come around to the way the American voter expects him to campaign--even if that is against his desires.

So I really don't care what your opinion of my statements are. You can bury your head in the sand if you would like and call everything all right but that isn't reality. The stories that are running, the voters, and even his supporters are all saying the same thing "His HEART ISN'T IN IT" and his constantly having to answer the questions about his unconventional campaign taticts is eliminating Fred from getting what little message he appears ready to share with us out. When the politician is constantly having to defend himself by saying "I ain't lazy"....he has lost already. So I would submit that your constantly telling Fred's supporters--who want nothing but for Fred to step up and take the election from Hillary--that they are wrong and chastising them for being "NEGATIVE" is really getting a might bit old.

You would call me NEGATIVE and I would say you are ARROGANT. Telling the people who it will take to put Fred in office that they are wrong and being NEGATIVE because they are voiceing legitimate concerns is the height of arrogance. Further, it will ensure that Fred isn't going to make it past the primary at this rate.

[edited to add] I think I will try your technique the next time I make a mistake at work. "No, boss, it isn't that I messed up and sent the customer a piece of software full of bugs....it is that the negativity of yourself and the client has brought about that which you most seek--a product full of bugs". I think I might try that, it is true genius.

New

Aside from my last sarcastic reply here, I have tried discussing this in a civil manner. My sole point has been that it is dangerous to make these type continued negative comments. I did not call you a negative person, but did indeed say that your comments and mentality have been so in regards to Mr Thompson and his campaign. Quite clearly I am not the only person to see this.

I am not sticking my head in the sand, I am aware that there are problems with campaigns and I am very aware that Mr Thompson has some hurdles to clear, but that does not mean I am going to say that it is over and stick my head in the sand and cry that Hillary has already won and that we are all doomed. I very well understand that may happen, but I will do what I can to be supportive of the candidate I feel best supports my views and has the best chance of being elected. I have maintained that through this thread as well as other similar threads in the past.

With that, I am officially done with this thread as it is pointless!

[Newarcher]

Aside from my last sarcastic reply here, I have tried discussing this in a civil manner. My sole point has been that it is dangerous to make these type continued negative comments. I did not call you a negative person, but did indeed say that your comments and mentality have been so in regards to Mr Thompson and his campaign. Quite clearly I am not the only person to see this.

I am not sticking my head in the sand, I am aware that there are problems with campaigns and I am very aware that Mr Thompson has some hurdles to clear, but that does not mean I am going to say that it is over and stick my head in the sand and cry that Hillary has already won and that we are all doomed. I very well understand that may happen, but I will do what I can to be supportive of the candidate I feel best supports my views and has the best chance of being elected. I have maintained that through this thread as well as other similar threads in the past.

With that, I am officially done with this thread as it is pointless!

Good, that will give me the last word!

I too have tried to discuss this in a civil manner, except for my highly sarchastic reply to your sarchastic reply.

Clearly you see the hurdles as do I. But, much like you appear to be doing, Fred's campaign is insisting that the problems aren't with his campaign, tactics, or strategy but rather with all the 'haters' out there. That's pretty darned bold when the people complaining are those who are seeking to support him. That simply isn't going to fly as the Republicans realized in 2006. I honestly am dumbfounded with his campaign and can only reconcile it with the fact that Fred never intended to win. I get the strong feeling that he started out with the intention of taking a VP slot. Either way, barring some unforseen major shift in the people or Fred's campaign, he isn't looking like he will make it.

That leaves us with Giuliani or Romney. Of the two, I think Romney has the best chances. Rudy simply can't win the general…with the single issue voters out there. The NRA largely hates him. The Christian right (who I disagree with) won't support him even if it is Rudy versus Hillary….casting their vote for a third party knowing that means Clinton wins. IMHO, Clinton getting there because of their lack of participation or throwing their vote away is akin to Pilot washing his hands after letting the crowd have their way. It doesn't fly if it means Clinton wins….because she is worse than Rudy in degrees. At some point it will become more of a question of who you are voting against rather than who you are voting for if Clinton is the nominee. The Republicans have a very very soft, weak field and aren't likely to garner much momentum at all. Of the pack, Fred is hands down the best but doesn't seem to want it very bad. Almost a "well gee I will go to Washington if the voters really want me to".

Anyway, that's my position. Let's hope I am wrong all around.

New