Christmas question

[Guest swampfox]

eliteone,

I would have no problem being nice to you in the grocery store or sitting around the clubhouse fireplace swapping tales after a deer hunt. But when you come to a discussion board and support a belief that all churches outside of your own are lead by Satan, be prepared to be identified as a cult-member.

You are not the only one who has dug into the Bible. There are many here who have done likewise and come to different beliefs than yourself. I would mention John Calvin, John Owen, Jonathan Edwards, and Matthew Henry to name a few who attained a considerable amount of Scriptural knowledge and understanding. I dare say that there have been and are many in the "Satan-lead churches" who have acquired much more knowledge of the Scripture than you or me? Yet they believe very differently than Armstrong and the World Wide Church of God. By the way, what do you think happened to Edwards, Calvin, Henry, and Owen. Do you think it is possible that these men made it to heaven seeing that they denied many if not all of Armstrong's doctrinal distinctives?

[johnf]

Kevin, I've heard in recent year that the WCG has changed significantly from what I grew up in. I may have spoken out of turn and if I did I apologize. I was born into the church in 1968 and my parents were deacons and later my dad was ordained as an elder. We lived in Southern Ca and my dad frequently went to Pasadena to meeting with HWA and Garner Ted. To say that my family were privy to the inner-workings of the church would be an understatement. When we went to the feast our camp grounds were guarded with military precision from towers about ever 100 yards and there were armed guards everywhere. I'd like to ask a few questions about the church you go to so that I can know about what you believe. There were many things that were dead contrary to the bible and some that there was just no basis for. There were things that the "Angel of Light" told Mrs. Armstrong that were just strange.

1. Is a 30% tithe + offerings still required to be "righteous".

2. Will you become a Spirit being and have the possibility of being god over your own people?

3. Was Christ born with a sin nature?

4. When Christ was resurrected was it the same body that died on the cross?

5. Are you allowed to read the books between John and Revelations? We were not.

6. Do they still teach that Western Europe and the United states anglo Saxons are the lost 10 tribes of Israel?

7. Do they still teach there is not a place where sinners are punished after death or if it's just an eternal sleep out of the presence of God?

8. Do they still teach that "the church" makes up the 144,000.

9. Do they still teach that the only way to be "Saved" is to pick God over death during the tribulation?

10. Do you still have to be prepared to go to the "Place of Safety" at a moments notice?

"The Church" as it was when I grew up in it was based on tyrannical treatment and fear of the world and of the men in the church. Any adult male could pretty much treat any child or woman any way they wanted without any recourse. This was the teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong. Anyone who tells you different is lying.

I've heard "the church" has changed. I certainly hope that it has.

[ParrotHead]

Ok first things first, I’m not going to get into any pissing contest with anyone here, you asked a question and I’m answering it. If you don’t like it, then don’t ask me another one because you’ll probably not like that one either!

Does the Bible designate December 25th as the birth date of Christ? Not that I’ve ever seen but you’ve got to ask yourself this, is setting a day aside every year to celebrate the birth of Christ a good thing or a bad thing? I think it’s a good thing and it could be Dec. 25th or July 1st and I wouldn’t care, I would still celebrate it.

So your kid believes in Santa, big deal. You and your family have sucumb to the commercialization of Christmas, no it’s not a sin. To shower your kids with a whole lot of stuff that they don’t need or want could in some cultures border on greed or gluttony, which do fall under the seven deadly sins as listed by the Roman Catholic Church. I’m not Catholic however.

Now as far a lying goes, The Old Testament and New Testament of the Bible both contain statements that God cannot lie and adds that God hates a lying tongue and forbids men to lie. But what exactly is a “lie” anyway? Webster’s defines it as type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement with the intention to deceive, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, or to avoid punishment. Is telling your child a story about Santa Claus truly trying to deceive your child into believing something that’s not true? Kind of depends on whether you tell them the truth at some point which would lead others to believe that some times telling a lie if justified. The best example I can find of this is below

In the New Testament, Jesus refers to the Devil as the father of lies (John 8:44) and Paul commands "Do not lie to one another" (Colossians 3:9, Cf.Leviticus 19:11). Jesus would seem to tell a lie to the Apostles in John 7:8-10, when He says "Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come," but then later on goes up to attend the same festival. Schopenhauer, in On the Basis of Morality, §17, asserted that lying is permissible at times, quoting this as an example. It is however consistent with the context that Jesus simply changed his mind, deciding only later on to go up to the festival. The Acts of the Apostles tells the story of Ananias and his wife Sapphira, who were killed for trying to lie to God.

While some see these examples as support for the idea that lying can be justifiable as the lesser of two evils, others disagree, arguing that the correct Biblical response is to pray that God will provide a way to avoid the greater evil without lying.

Yeah, I’m pretty confused also.

So here’s the deal. It makes no difference what you believe and what I believe and what denomination we believe it to be under. The day Christians stop celebrating the birth of Christ is the day I concert to some other religion. And in the end, each man is only responsible for his actions and will only be help accountable for his actions. Out of everything evil I could do, I don’t believe celebrating Christmas or giving a 5 year old gifts under the name Santa is going to tick God off too much. It’s all the other crap I do or could do that’s really going to piss him off!