honest question about shooting fawns?

[Shawn]

in the deer hunting contest and in the deer hunting thread, and bowhunting threads, over the years i've been here i've seen alot of people post threads about shooting fawns and/or button bucks. hey im sure they're tastey and probably like veal. Cant deny good meat. My father and i though dont shoot 6 months olds. IMHO to me its not even fair. I had a Button Buck many of times this year stare at me quite a few times and not know what was goin on or what danger i posed. But let him walk. I am by no means a trophy hunter. I do shoot 1 1/2 year olds but to me when they wind you or see you they know more of a danger us hunters are. By no means do i mean to offend ANYONE BY THIS POST. Even though i know some will become upset. I just ask. How many of you Shoot fawns/button bucks? Or do you think it's right? Or for you qdma hunters, what do you do in this situation? Again, sorry if i offended anyone, i'm just curious about everyone else's opinions.

[Adjam5]

At the QDMA seminar I went to, what was talked about was...

The 80lb mark. That is the trigger weight for doe fawns to become mature enough for breeding. If they do not attain that weight, they will not breed and most likely will have a hard time during the winter months, unless they live in a area that has supplemental feeding. The lead doe is usually the matriarch and teaches the others. It was recommended to shoot the smaller ones, but it comes down to personal preference and what ever is legal.

I have shot a button a buck in the past, but it was a mistake. I thought it was a doe:confused: at 60 yards. It had 1 inch nubbers I couldn't see with the scope. Thats why antlerless in NY is considered, antlers less than 3".

[buckee]

Even though it's legal, I prefer my meat mature. I've shot my fair share of buttons and spifers over the years. Even shot a fawn by mistake once, and the meat was terrible, tasteless, and almost white. I guess that's what ya get from milf fed critters. Not as good as veal by a long shot IMHO.

Anyway, I agree with the original poster here. It's just too easy. We're allowed two deer here, so why not make em both mature, and get as much meat as I can out of the deal, plus, let the little bucks grow up to see what they're going to be also. JMO;)

It might be legal, but these blacktails come small enough, when they're mature, never mind when they're young.

Heck, I don't even like shooting does, with late fawns early in the season..

[Hoosierbuck]

It is almost as much work butchering a yearling as a mature animal, so I'll take the higher yield off the mature animal. Around here the "winter kill" thing is pretty much non-existant because of all the agriculture, so fawn mortality is not a good justification for whacking the babies. Not down on anyone that wants to, but I have my reasons not to make it a routine practice.

HB

[LifeNRA]

I prefer a more mature deer. I had five yearling's all together come under my stand a few weeks ago. I could have taken any of them, but I didn't. It was my choice!

[Tominator]

Depends on the property. There are two properties where the landowner wants deer dead, period. In those cases we try to make certain they are not button bucks, but occasionally, they do get shot. The one deer that I have this year was a button. I knew it was a fawn, but I thought it was a doe fawn.

I wouldn't shoot a fawn if I were off those properties only because there's not much meat on them.

[BowJoe]

I guess that's what ya get from milf fed critters.

I sure hope you meant "milk fed" Buckee. LOL I'm not offended in the least and I think this issue and it's posts have been handled perfectly so far. I have shot several button bucks and only one knowing it was a button buck. I don't intend to kill only small deer and would love to take as many mature does and bucks as a lot on here do. I just don't have as much time or effort put into it as others. But I do enjoy taking an animal for myself and reaping the rewards of good meals that I, myself, my friends and neighbors enjoy. I can get as much deer meat as I can handle if I ask my hunting buddies for it but I would much rather enjoy eating my memories vs. my buddy's. I try to harvest whatever comes by my stand at the start of season just to get the cobwebs out and some fresh venison on the platter. The end of season for me is pretty much the same as the start. I just want meat in the freezer and I don't care what it is. Sorry if I offend but it's my decision and it's legal so to me it's a non issue.

[The Kid]

i too also wonder why some people shoot fawns i can understand button bucks because there sometimes hard to tell if there does or not, but i just don't understand why some people shoot fawns, i just don't understand?????

[98chevy]

I have shot them but not normally. I shot one saturday becuase its legs where broke. I didnt feal bad about shooting it. I know a biolgist who wants us to shoot them. So it depends where i hunt and the situation.(also I never ever shoot one with spots)

[Hardwood_HD]

i would rather take a mature deer but usually early in the season i get antsy and am not very picky, especially with the antlerless tags we get now.. after i get one down then i get picky and only shoot a mature doe or buck.. again towards the end of season if i still have a tag in my pocket i will settle for a young one

[bulldawg]

I still can't get around good, so I will take what comes out, as long as it will dress out close to 100# or better. We have nubby's where I hunt that will dress out 90# plus. The freezer is empty, and I saw a total of 2 deer last year, because I can't get back in to the good stands. So, if it is decent sized, it's down.

Dawg

[wtnhunt]

The little ones get a free pass by me. I will not shoot a fawn, wont shoot a doe who is with a fawn still bearing spots and nursing either.

[slaw]

I'm picky at first part of the season, at least a yearling, but toward the end Ill take whatever comes, cause it taste better than an unfilled tag. Sometimes in the heat of the moment a fawn can look larger than it really is, and when you haven't seen anything, it's easy to get excited and take the shot presented. I've shot my fare share of fawns, but I try not to now days.

[nativetexan]

This is a good topic. One that is discussed in my circles a lot.

But I have to ask, why do we keep apologizing in advance of offending anyone? I don't really see how whackin' a fawn or button buck is offensive. Just curious. Not trying to start any poop.

The only real reason I have ever heard for taking a young deer depends on weight, spots, and how harsh the winter is. Me personally, I prefer something with a little more meat on it.

[PotashRLS]

We've discussed this in our groups before also. Charles Alsheimer has touched on this also in his writings and found that their own aggressive harvest of adult or "big" does caused adverse affects on their deer herd. The matriarch does were not there to teach and raise smart and healthy fawns. It also takes time for recruitment and other does to establish core areas on or around your property again. We saw that ourselves. After a few years of 4 adult does each year off 100 acres, we would see smaller does and fewer twin fawns. I am seriously looking at exploring a doe fawn harvest when the opportunities arise. Your matriach does will still fawn in the spring and fewer buck fawns will be mistaken for does during the November and December months of our hunting season. We also don't shoot lone anterless deer. They usually look adequate in size and usually tend to be buck fawns. It is a great topic for discussion and really gets to the roots of exploring deer management. Just my thoughts.

[MUDRUNNER]

I try to only shoot bigger does,but sometimes it can be hard to tell when things happen fast.It's pretty easy to tell when the fawns are with the doe,but if an early born fawn comes in by itself it can be hard to tell since they can reach a decent size in their first year with all the food available around here.If I determine it's a fawn I will let it walk.There are guys in our group that will shoot fawns and are proud of them and that's fine with me,I'm just a little more choosey.

[Indy-Travis]

I am likely in a small minortiy here, but I used to never shoot fawns, and now I tend to select them for my antlerless harvest, especially if it is them or a old doe. Maybe they wean to forage foods earlier here, but the doe fawns are typically fat, and the meat seems just the same flavor but sometimes more tender. I typically take 3-4 does a year, and typically two or so are young does. I avoid shooting buttons bucks but don't hesitate to shoot fat healthy doe fawns at any stage of the season.

[hutchies]

I have shot 1 personally and it was the first I ever killed with a bow. If a person wants to shoot a fawn I have not problems with it. That is their choice. Shawn, You have to remember here that the guy that hunts and shoots 5-7 year old deer probably wonders why you are killing deer that are 1.5 years old. Would I shoot a fawn if I really needed the meat..............You betcha. As long as I don't have to though I'm not going to intentionally.

[Leo]

We've discussed this in our groups before also. Charles Alsheimer has touched on this also in his writings and found that their own aggressive harvest of adult or "big" does caused adverse affects on their deer herd. The matriarch does were not there to teach and raise smart and healthy fawns. It also takes time for recruitment and other does to establish core areas on or around your property again. We saw that ourselves. After a few years of 4 adult does each year off 100 acres, we would see smaller does and fewer twin fawns. I am seriously looking at exploring a doe fawn harvest when the opportunities arise. Your matriach does will still fawn in the spring and fewer buck fawns will be mistaken for does during the November and December months of our hunting season. We also don't shoot lone anterless deer. They usually look adequate in size and usually tend to be buck fawns. It is a great topic for discussion and really gets to the roots of exploring deer management. Just my thoughts.

You're definitely thinking and should think about it some more. Yearling does and button bucks are your future in managing a piece of property. Everyone agrees with that because it is absolutely true. It's easily a no-brainer.

But just what kind of future they hold for your property is where the arguments start.

This is not just my opinion, on one lease I was part of we actually hired a real wildlife management specialist. He surveyed the property, took a census and laid out a management plan. We got an earful and learned a lot. Letting fawns and buttons walk when you are trying to manage a property is a guaranteed path to mediocrity. The undersize deer are late drops (ie. born very late in the year) they are also primarily the offspring of does that come into their first estrous late in the season. Undersized momma = undersized fawn. These are not the deer you want breeding. These deer start life at a disadvantage and pass it on. The cycle degrades and gets worse and worse every year. Bucks that miss growing antlers their first fall never catch up. That's where two year old spikes come from and three year old four and six pointers. If you are seeing that on a property you are managing, it's not bad genetics. You need to change your management practices and declare war on the little deer. Ugly, unpopular and unpalatable I know but in many cases it is absolutely the right thing to do.

[PotashRLS]

Leo - thats a heck of an argument. Our Wisconsin deer herd is bountiful enough that we do get fawns that are conceived on the 2nd esterous cycle and start out small. Our fawns usually are in the 70-80lb dressed range at the time of our annual 9 day gun season which starts the Saturday before Thanksgiving (this Saturday!). Sound deer management has a lot of aspects that are not the most pleasing to all hunters, but can and will help your local deer herds. Instant gratification is almost always the biggest killer of someone's willingness to participate in a management strategy. Things just don't work that fast.

Ever get into it with a guy who says, "once a spike, always a spike"? I love that conversation. It's always a fun one!!!!!!!!

[zippyswamp]

Well I have yet to see buck fawns at six months with antlers Leo, we life in some of the best whitetail range in Wisconsin, and it ain't happening. They are (nubbins) but not a true antler.

Yes we do have a few spike bucks, but from what we have learned is that it's just a deer that was born late, or had to put all of his food intake into his body to survive, and not into his antlers.

I do agree with Potash though, we went through the thought of harvesting doe fawns rather than adult does for the same reason. We were killing the breeders, those fawns are nothing but eating machines, taking what could have been used for the bucks and the does that were now bread and eating to keep themselves and there growing fetus healthy.

But what you do on your property is yours to do what you think is the best for your deer herd. But I still (think) that if you have a high number of deer, the adult doe is the one to remove, and if you want the deer on your property to know where the best place to winter, where the safest place to hold up away from the preditors are, leave the adult doe and shoot a fawn.

But it's your choice.

[ladydiehard]

Interesting discussion.

My group typically takes a mixture of mature does, doe fawns and a few nubs mixed in that are usually mistaken for does.

My group also takes bucks of any size. During bow season, we have been seeing an abundance of 4 and 6 pointers. Only one of us (that would be me - see my journal for details) has seen what most would call a "trophy" buck. But we won't hold out just in hopes of getting a crack at the trophy. We will fill our buck and doe tags and then fill some bonuses besides.

[Bowtech_archer07]

I will not shoot a fawns or yearlings on purpose. There have been 2 occasions when one has walked by all alone and it was difficult for me to tell the body size on the deer. One time it was my first deer and a fawn that had lost its spots and the other time it was a button buck. Like I said, we try not to shoot fawns or any buck that is less than an 8 pt. wider than his ears, which usually equals out to a 3.5 yr. old. That is how we are trying to manage our herd. I personally do not think less of anyone for shooting a fawn or a 1.5 yr. old or even a 2.5 year old deer as I have done it as well. What I said was just our practice of hunting.

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Depends on the property.

That's the best answer I could give too. Depends on the property and the current situation. A fawn would be the last thing I would shoot...unless of course the situation would warrant it.

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Depends on the property.

That's the best answer I could give too. Depends on the property and the current situation that property is in. Me personally, a fawn would be the last thing I would shoot...unless of course the situation would warrant it. But that is just me;)