Milk River...Montana

[Guest Tatonka]

I'm guessing you've all seen the shows on TV about the deer hunting on the Milk River here in Montana (as a matter of fact, there's a show on tv right now about it.."Whitetail Revelution"). I live here....my house is maybe 3/4 of a mile from the river (near Chinook). The shows you all see on TV are very misleading. While the Milk River has some good hunting in places, it's not like they depict it to be on TV.

The Milk River's headwaters is in Alberta. It meanders through the prairie and crosses into Montana north of Havre, MT. Just west of Havre is Fresno Resevoir, a large dam on the Milk. It then winds its way across Northcentral Montana roughly parelelling U.S. Highway 2. The cover is willows, cottonwood trees, russian olives, rose bushes, etc.

The area they hunt on TV is east of here near Hindsdale Montana. It's a very unique section of the river as it winds it's way along some high ridges on the south side for a few miles. The cover in that section of the river is also much denser than places west. The cover is adjacent to very good crop lands (alfalfa, barley, corn, etc.). A large portion of this section of the river is leased out....This is where Bill Jordan and people like that hunt. What makes this portion of the river so neat is that hunters can get up on the ridge above the river with a spotting scope and watch thousands of acres (and hundreds of deer!!!)....you can pattern a buck to a "T" without ever walking the ground. There are a lot of deer here....a lot!!! I don't know if they plant food plots for the deer on the leased land or not, or if there are just more older deer there but generally speaking the deer I've seen on TV are considerably larger than the deer you'll see in other sections of the Milk. Also, I was talking to a guy who works for the Power Company recently who works in the Hindsdale area. He told me that the portion of the Milk that Bill Jordan hunts is off limits to other hunters who hire the services of the guide in that area. He was talking to some hunters from out of state who had seen the tv shows and had come to hunt with this outfitter. After a couple days of hunting they'd seen very little. While driving down one of the gravel roads with the outfitter the guys spotted a field with a pile of deer out feeding and several large bucks. When they asked why they weren't hunting that spot the outfitter said, "That's reseved for Bill Jordan and his crew". As you might guess, they weren't very happy. The Power Company guy also said that Jordan has his own barn there where he keeps boats, treestands, etc. He has exclusive rights to this property, according to the guy I spoke with.

The Milk River is comprised of almost all private land and most of the parcels are relatively small by Montana standards. Ranchers bring their cattle in for the winter by the time gun season rolls around, which makes access even more difficult. Most of the local hunters hunt away from the river.....up the creek bottoms and out on the prarie. Deer numbers are much lower in these areas, but access is better and from what I've seen the bucks tend to be larger.

The largest bucks in Montana come from west of the big mountains.... It's rough hunting, but the bucks grow old and very big. There's a reason why the Wensel Brothers, Dick Idol, David Morris, etc. live over there instead of on the east side of the Rockies!!!

[Guest chappy]

Interesting...

[davetucker]

i wanna watch this post and see where it goes.it isn't like that in maine only parts are becoming that way.pp;e like that are buying land and posting it and than hunting our lands so the big bucks get big on their land and keep them to their selves!!!

[Guest COACH J.]

Hmm.........

[wtnhunt]

i wanna watch this post and see where it goes.

Ummm yeah, me too.

[Tom2008]

Sounds like this one might get out of hand. I think I'll sit back and watch too.

[Hardwood_HD]

interesting, i am sure this will get even more interesting here soon

[bfletch7441]

So what ... no one's gonna stir the pot about this?!? lol

Looks earily similar to the first post of a high fence argument not long ago.

I'm with the rest of you, I'll just sit back and enjoy the fireworks.

Ben

[JasonLester]

"That's reseved for Bill Jordan and his crew"

So all I need to do is get on his "Crew" No Problem LOL....

Thats the way things go with hunting leases and private property. They have a good spot locked up. If they didn't it probably wouldn't stay good to long. Especialy when you make videos in the area.

Sure would like to get in there to hunt though.

[texastrophies]

I have a friend who has an uncle who has a cousin that has a step father that heard you are wrong on what you said. :D:D

What was your point again?

[lungbuster12point06]

Why would this be controversial? I'm sure the landowner/outfitter gets paid well to lease the area to Jordan, it's not public land so it goes to the highest bidder,what's the big deal?

[bigmoss]

Ya cant see why this thread would get out of hand either, it is just someones thoughts on a hot area where he lives. I have heard worse about IL and Iowa and other places.

[njbowhntr]

I think what is trying to be said is that some outfitters across the world save parcels of land for just camera crews and the such. If I am a paying customer like everyone else why should I not be allowed to hunt all the land that the outfitter has to offer. I was told by my outfitter in Quebec on a caribou hunt that certain phone calls are made just prior to the migration getting to their camps. This way the guys with the cameras can be there when the caribou are there. But you and I have to role the dice and pray to hit the migration right. To me that sounds like false advertising.

Now if the guide manages the land for one of the hunting shows we see but does not advertise it as an available lease to hunt, then that is fine. But if he is adding the land into his advertised leases to hunt, then the outfitter is not an honest business person. Therefore someone that we should stay away from as honest hunters.

[Randy]

Why would this be controversial? I'm sure the landowner/outfitter gets paid well to lease the area to Jordan, it's not public land so it goes to the highest bidder,what's the big deal?

My thoughts exactly.

So, what you are saying is the Outfitter leases a parcel of land to Jordan? No other hunters are allowed to hunt it, due to the lease. Hunters see all these deer on the TV show and hire the Outfitter to shoot a great big buck. Unfortunately the hunters didn't shoot anything. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, if you think Jordan is the only one that does this you are sadly mistaken!! I hate to say it but, "it's all about money"!

Think about it, (sorry Steve B ) if you are an outfitter and your job is to but people on "big bucks" and you have repeat customers that "have money" and continue to come back year after year, are you not going to do your best to give them a great hunt? Of course you are, they are paying your bills every year. Seems like a "no brainer"!! Another example, let's pretend for a minute that you are the outfitter. You are taking two hunters out on a deer hunt. You have spent countless hours scouting and you know where there a 7 really good bucks but, 3 out of the 7 are 160" plus. The two regular "Joe blows" after talking to them and getting a feel for their expectations will be ecstatic with a couple 140's". You know that your big tippers are coming in next week, what are you going to do?? It's a business. You need to put bread on the table. I would suspect that if you went to just about any outfitter (again, sorry Steve B) and the outfitter says you better shoot this 140, and you say I have $500 if you can get me a bigger one he'll say, "we can try".

I enjoyed your post and look forward to some of the other responses. Just remember, it's a business.

[Guest mims]

Everyone should be allowed to hunt everywhere. Rise proletariat and such as.

[stevebeilgard]

randy said it pretty well in general, but not the way that i did things. sure, lots of outfitters would let clients shoot a lesser animal. i would not. i had about 200,000 acres leased. about 85% of my hunters got deer. my minimum was a 22" spread. we got lots of 26-28" bucks simply by not over hunting them. i refused to let people shoot a small buck just to fill a tag. i'd let them shoot a doe, but not a smaller buck. and i would NEVER back a hunter off a nice buck, so someone else could come in and shoot it. although i do know that happens in the industry. as for jordan and crew, i'll bet the outfitter allows them to hunt free for the advertising. and i'll bet his other hunters do pretty well, and pay high. i always charged (lots) more for my hunts, because i produce. simple as that. i have 44 years of 100% on antelope, 100% on 6 x 6 elk (or better), and 85% on deer. when i charged $3,000.00 for an antelope or a deer, i'd have hunters tell me they could book a hunt for half price. and i'd tell them that if they want half as good a head, book it. and i'd have to turn down 50 hunters a year, even at my "rip off" prices. so, randy is right. it's a business. i had a good one, and didn't give it away. those who could afford me got what they paid for. in 1986, i was one of two outfitters in the world that had cabelas, bass pro shop, and north american hunt club (outdoor adventures) all booking for me.

[Guest Tatonka]

The point I was trying to make is that only a very small portion of the Milk River is like what people see on TV. Many people think the entire riverbottom is like the area around Hindsdale and it's not....far from it. I'd just hate to see folks spend the time and money to come out here thinking that they'd have the same quality hunt as what they've seen on TV. I ran into a guy from Maryland a couple years ago who did just that....got out here and couldn't find a decent place to hunt.

Last year the landowners in the Hindsdale area who have their land open to hunting got invaded by deer that left the leased ground after the season ended. The F&G held a late season damage hunt....hunters could buy either 4 or 6 tags, I forget which, but as soon as the shooting started the deer hightailed it to the leased ground where no one could hunt, so the damage hunt was pretty much a flop....the deer would leave their "sanctuary" at night and feed in neighboring haystacks, etc. and then be gone by daylight. My son and I went down there to get some meat for the freezer and couldn't even find a doe to shoot....unbelievable. We got to talking to a couple of the landowners and they filled is in on what was going on.

I'm not discouraging anyone from hunting Montana....come on out, but do your homework first.

[stevebeilgard]

i think you are correct, and that this land and outfitter are not good if what you were told about then is true. i'm troubled that jordan would advertise for the outfitter if he's not producing for anyone except him and the cameras.

[elkoholic]

Money talks and it would be of no surprise to me if the Realtree team had a special place locked up. It would be unethical for the outfitter to not be forthright in providing information about his hunting lease and the fact that the average hunter can not hunt the area shown on TV or in videos. No matter, there are a lot of deer in eastern Montana and the deer taken by the originator of this post, Tatonka, is a fine example of what the area has to offer as are his pictures of the surviving deer from this past season. The caveat of this area is that it is mostly private property with limited access. Outfitters have locked up large chunks of property once open to local hunters and all in the name of greed. Private property rights aside, when you lock up property for monetary gain when that gain comes from the hunting of game animals held in trust by the state for the residents of that state there is surely a larger issue here besides greed and questionable advertising. Anyone who watches the hunting shows or buys the videos would have to be very naive to think that the people in the "hunting profession" are not given special treatment and opportunities when hunting with an outfitter. They may consistently take home the "trophies" but they will never get all the tarnish off. Tatonka also mentions that the biggest deer in Montana come from my side of the big mountains. He is probably correct as I have seen several deer that would leave the world record behind (never during an open season when I had an unfilled tag in hand) and most of the land is steep and thickly forested. Since this is National Forest and outfitters are limited and the hunting is tough there are many deer (outside of the populated valleys) that see little or no hunting pressure. An extremely large percentage of hunters "road" hunt and one can get back off the roads and still hunt all day and never see another hunter. The bucks can grow old and large, but there is no supplemental feed or minerals and no removal of "poor" genetics from the herd. It happens naturally here and I like it that way. Unless the Forest Service sells out it should remain that way for a long time to come.

[rhine16]

The point I was trying to make is that only a very small portion of the Milk River is like what people see on TV.

It has always been my dream to bow hunt the Milk River because of what i have seen on the shows. The deer just seem to live in those alfalfa fields for 2-3 hours at sunrise and right before sunset. They also seem to parade down the same trails each day. I may very well be wrong in that thinking, but that is what it seems like.

I guess your post's point was to inform us that we are wrong in this thinking.

[wtnhunt]

i think you are correct, and that this land and outfitter are not good if what you were told about then is true. i'm troubled that jordan would advertise for the outfitter if he's not producing for anyone except him and the cameras.

Kind of figured this was part of the original post intents, knew this would come up eventually.

I don't know for certain, but I really would not think that Bill Jordan would knowingly promote an outfitter knowing that regular everyday people would get to that outfitter and be told that they could not hunt an area as it was reserved for only the realtree camera crew and Jordan himself.

Kind of unusual really, seems in some of the shows roadtrips to be more specific, that Michael does in fact turn the camera on regular every day guys like any of us who happen to also be in camp, which kind of goes against what is being said here. Cannot say as though I recall seeing that at the milk river outfitters, but who knows. Also seems Michael has used a different outfitter in Montana in some of the more recent episodes of roadtrips.

If this is true about the area being reserved, guess it is Bill Jordan's right to tie up the land in a lease or reserve it, but as far as him promoting it and misleading anyone, I just don't think that is in any way something he would do intentionally. Just my two cents.

[rhine16]

Hate to bring this up, but i just watched MB XIV volume 1 again and at the end before they showed the outfitters numbers and such, Bill Jordan says

"One of the most popular things about our Realtree videos is that anyone can go and hunt the outfitters that we hunt."

They went on to say a little more. I don't know what if what was said in this post is true or not, but i doubt Jordan would've said what he did otherwise.

[Guest adrenaline_junky]

I put a lot of effort into my lease land and the land that we own. Just cause we kill big bucks on it every year dosn't mean anyone else has the right to come in and hunt it. I pay my lease every year and my property taxes on our property so that gives no one but myself and whomever i take on the property the right to hunt it. PERIOD!!!! I seen someone else post this same statement. "It is a business who ever has the most money is going to get the lease." The thing is if some people and I'm not pointing any fingers at any of you folks but if some people would just quit trespassing and helping themselves to hunting properties this wouldn't be such a big problem.

This is just my opinion and how I feel about lease land.

[Guest buck killer]

I want to sit bacck and read to. It could get out of hand