Ohiobucks Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 first of all, how is it far chase to sit in a tree stand and bait the deer to ya. how is that fair chase? seconed the whole deal with Tred Barta is, how can you say he's and idiot. i persanaliy agree with him that its not fair to use sent killer and be in a tree or ground blind. how can you call him an idot? have you met him? me i have met him. he's a really nice guy who nows alot of stuff about GOOD AND RIGHT hunting. use of a tree stand or ground blind in my opinon is wrong. it's just as bad to me as hunting a high fince. -ron Same type of question could be asked about using a rifle on a deer from 300+ yards out? Is that fair chase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tatonka Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Same type of question could be asked about using a rifle on a deer from 300+ yards out? Is that fair chase? Good point, but it depends on a lot of things. Getting within rifle range on the plains can be a challenge....it's usually spot and stalk as opposed to sitting over a big field in a tower with a rangefinder, commercial rest for your rifle, etc. Having a rifle that will reach out 300 yards and beyond and being able to shoot that rifle accurately under hunting conditions (dealing with the wind, which blows more often than not on the paririe, contending with the excitement of shooting at a large buck, etc.) are two very different things. I've been "within range" many times but have been unable to take the shot for many reasons. Often times the grass, sagebrush, etc. are too high for a sitting or prone shot and I don't know of anyone who can take a shot at long range shooting offhand. Here again, once piece of technology (high powered rifle with a scope) will probably not result in the hunter having an unfair advantage over a deer. Add in a solid rest (bipod, shooting stick, etc.) and a rangefinder and the issue becomes debateable... I've hunted both east and west.....heavy cover from tree stands and wide open prairie. Generally speaking, people from the east who have never hunted the west think that killing a deer on the prairie is a piece of cake, and people from the west who have never hunted the mid-west or east think that waiting in a tree for a buck is also a piece of cake. Sometimes killing a buck on the pairie is a piece of cake, and sometimes killing a buck from a tree stand is also.......sometimes "Lady Luck" smiles on us, but I think most of us know that most of the time neither is the case...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Good point, but it depends on a lot of things. Getting within rifle range on the plains can be a challenge....it's usually spot and stalk as opposed to sitting over a big field in a tower with a rangefinder, commercial rest for your rifle, etc. Having a rifle that will reach out 300 yards and beyond and being able to shoot that rifle accurately under hunting conditions (dealing with the wind, which blows more often than not on the paririe, contending with the excitement of shooting at a large buck, etc.) are two very different things. I've been "within range" many times but have been unable to take the shot for many reasons. Often times the grass, sagebrush, etc. are too high for a sitting or prone shot and I don't know of anyone who can take a shot at long range shooting offhand. Here again, once piece of technology (high powered rifle with a scope) will probably not result in the hunter having an unfair advantage over a deer. Add in a solid rest (bipod, shooting stick, etc.) and a rangefinder and the issue becomes debateable... I've hunted both east and west.....heavy cover from tree stands and wide open prairie. Generally speaking, people from the east who have never hunted the west think that killing a deer on the prairie is a piece of cake, and people from the west who have never hunted the mid-west or east think that waiting in a tree for a buck is also a piece of cake. Sometimes killing a buck on the pairie is a piece of cake, and sometimes killing a buck from a tree stand is also.......sometimes "Lady Luck" smiles on us, but I think most of us know that most of the time neither is the case...... Interesting post. Basically to put it all in a nutshell, Each and every state and \or province has a different type of terrain, deer numbers, number of hunters, and the list goes on and on. We need to trust the guidelines that are in our rulebooks, whether we agree with them 100% or not. We as Taxpayers pay pretty good money to our lawmakers to make these decisions. Again every state is different, if there is a law that you feel needs to be changed due to too much technology, (and i'm sure there are some that need to be changed) we need to take it to an open meeting and discuss our concerns with lawmakers. What might be considered fair chase in one state may very well be impossible in another. Ok, I'm done with this thread now!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest coloradobuck Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 i apologize to all i afened. it wasnt my place to say what i sayed about eastern hunting. Finn i under stand what your saying and i agree to an extent on what your sayin. i just wish that my spelling and my bad grammer wasnt throne in like that. this is my last post on this subjet. -ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted January 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, overall I think this has been a good discussion with a few transgressions thrown in. Someone, Randy I think, wondered about my years of hunting experience. I have been slinging lead and broad-heads for well over forty years and have hunted from New Jersey to British Columbia. The past 25 years have been here in western Montana for the most part. When it comes to different, legal, methods of hunting there are a few I would never participate in but for those hunters who grew up with those hunting heritages, well, it is normal to them. As far as the technology end of it, I feel that it is important for us, as hunters, to be able to discuss/debate issues that will be addressed in the future. It is better to be involved in decisions affecting our way of life. Trail Cams are but one issue that we may see addressed. Future technology may make it possible for hunters to become completely invisible, scent free and be able to move in complete silence. Do you think this is acceptable? How about game animal detection (species specific) within a one mile radius? I am in favor of drawing a hard line (unless you are in danger of starving). One thing I am pretty sure of is that all of this technology is not making us better hunters. It is allowing us to let our natural skills fade as gadgets do our work for us. Hunt on people. For we must, because that is who we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, overall I think this has been a good discussion with a few transgressions thrown in. Someone, Randy I think, wondered about my years of hunting experience. I have been slinging lead and broad-heads for well over forty years and have hunted from New Jersey to British Columbia. The past 25 years have been here in western Montana for the most part. When it comes to different, legal, methods of hunting there are a few I would never participate in but for those hunters who grew up with those hunting heritages, well, it is normal to them. As far as the technology end of it, I feel that it is important for us, as hunters, to be able to discuss/debate issues that will be addressed in the future. It is better to be involved in decisions affecting our way of life. Trail Cams are but one issue that we may see addressed. Future technology may make it possible for hunters to become completely invisible, scent free and be able to move in complete silence. Do you think this is acceptable? How about game animal detection (species specific) within a one mile radius? I am in favor of drawing a hard line (unless you are in danger of starving). One thing I am pretty sure of is that all of this technology is not making us better hunters. It is allowing us to let our natural skills fade as gadgets do our work for us. Hunt on people. For we must, because that is who we are. Well put elkoholic. One thing I am pretty sure of is that all of this technology is not making us better hunters. It is allowing us to let our natural skills fade as gadgets do our work for us. That is relevant not only in the hunting industry, but in every other aspect of our daily lives as well. Computers, cell phones, video games, GPS units (in cars), calculators, this list goes on and on. BTW, when I asked the question about shooting a deer from 300+ yards out with a rifle, I want you all to know I'm not against it, I was just trying to make a point that some people do think that is not considered fair chase. I just had a conversation with Tominator last week about shooting game at great distances, he's all for it, me not so much. BUT I don't consider it cheating or not fair chase, just not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, overall I think this has been a good discussion with a few transgressions thrown in. Someone, Randy I think, wondered about my years of hunting experience. I have been slinging lead and broad-heads for well over forty years and have hunted from New Jersey to British Columbia. The past 25 years have been here in western Montana for the most part.I guess the point I was trying to make was, have you noticed the deer getting smarter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted January 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 No, Randy, I do not believe the deer are getting smarter. From my experience they appear to be getting dumber, but there are some deer who appear to be smarter. The reason deer appear to be smarter may well be because us hunters are pretty easy to pattern. We may think we are sizing them up when all we are really doing is making it easier for them to avoid us. Sometimes we think too much and deer, not so much. Since my hunting style has no pattern and the deer I hunt have little to fear but road hunters, my forty years of hunting experience, stored away in my head, give me all the advantage needed. If it were not for all the new technology, along with a high number of hunters the deer might put us to shame. Smarter? No, they do not live long enough for that and the ones that survive probably do not care to pass on (if they could) the secret of survival to their rivals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shutter Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 First of all, I didnt read all of the replies, but I did enjoy reading some of the "holier than thou" fair chase comments. I always found it interesting, that back in the frontier days, indians would still chase buffalo over the edge of a cliff, rather than shoot them with their bow. In fact, they were still chasing buffalos over a cliff even after they had access to accurate repeater rifles. I wonder if other indians criticized them saying that hunting via the "buffalo jump" isnt fair chase? Bottom line is, unless you remove the grey matter between your ears, man will always come up with ways to get the edge on prey. Unless you purposely "dumb down" your hunt, there really isnt anything "fair enough" about modern means or techniques of hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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