Trying to prove a theory


hoytman26

Recommended Posts

LIVEWIRE and hoytman, this is really interesting! I did notice you supplied charts with no dates - moon phases only. However, my own experiences, which don't really constitute enough data to be significant, don't support the theory.

Using only the 18 whitetails I've shot which have had 9 points or more (if I include down to 8 points, it gets into a lot of immature bucks), only 6 of them have been during the rut. Almost all the others have been in the early part of the season, before rutting is even a passing thought. The breakdown is like this:

Sept 1 ... 5x5 velvet, 6x5

Sept 2 ... 8x8 velvet

Sept 5 ... 5x5

Sept 8 ... 5x5 velvet, 5x4, 5x5

Sept 11 ... 4x6

Sept 16 ... 4x5

Sept 17 ... 5x5

Oct 12 ... 4x5

Nov 16 ... 5x4, 7x6, 5x5

Nov 17 ... 4x5

Nov 18 ... 7x6

Nov 20 ... 6x6

Dec 4 ... 5x5

Clearly, most of my success has been either during early, calm times or in the rut. Those 6 bucks in November represent 6 different years. Although I don't have a clue as far as what the moon phases were in those years, it seems awfully unlikely they would all have coincided with the appropriate 'rutting moon' activity during that 5 day span(Nov 16-20). I also hunted just as much in the days before and after those 5 days.

I know this is not in accordance with studies by the likes of Dr. James Kroll and others, but those are my observations. I guess you can find exceptions to every rule.

Oh ya - just realizing this is the archery forum.:o These are mainly not archery deer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may throw a monkey wrench into the theory.

My best buck was killed in Kansas on Nov. 20, 2004. He officially scored 184 1/4" gross and 175 1/8" net B&C and yes I did enter him in B&C.

Now...here's the dates of the mature bucks (4 1/2 years old or older) that I've killed in Mississippi just over the past 6 years.

9 point killed on 1/11/03

8 point killed on 11/30/03

9 point killed 1/13/05

6 point (19" spread cull buck) killed 12/15/06

8 point killed 1/9/07

10 point killed 12/17/07

8 point killed 1/5/08

If you really want to know the best time to hunt mature bucks in your area, check with your local taxidermist. He knows when to expect most of the trophy bucks to come into his shop. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LIVEWIRE and hoytman, this is really interesting! I did notice you supplied charts with no dates - moon phases only. However, my own experiences, which don't really constitute enough data to be significant, don't support the theory.

Using only the 18 whitetails I've shot which have had 9 points or more (if I include down to 8 points, it gets into a lot of immature bucks), only 6 of them have been during the rut. Almost all the others have been in the early part of the season, before rutting is even a passing thought. The breakdown is like this:

Sept 1 ... 5x5 velvet, 6x5

Sept 2 ... 8x8 velvet

Sept 5 ... 5x5

Sept 8 ... 5x5 velvet, 5x4, 5x5

Sept 11 ... 4x6

Sept 16 ... 4x5

Sept 17 ... 5x5

Oct 12 ... 4x5

Nov 16 ... 5x4, 7x6, 5x5

Nov 17 ... 4x5

Nov 18 ... 7x6

Nov 20 ... 6x6

Dec 4 ... 5x5

Clearly, most of my success has been either during early, calm times or in the rut. Those 6 bucks in November represent 6 different years. Although I don't have a clue as far as what the moon phases were in those years, it seems awfully unlikely they would all have coincided with the appropriate 'rutting moon' activity during that 5 day span(Nov 16-20). I also hunted just as much in the days before and after those 5 days.

I know this is not in accordance with studies by the likes of Dr. James Kroll and others, but those are my observations. I guess you can find exceptions to every rule.

Oh ya - just realizing this is the archery forum.:o These are mainly not archery deer.

I dont like to compare gun hunts to this due to pressure on the animal and he is more likely to be spooked and on his feet and you can shoot them from 100yds+ This years rut moon was Oct26 and next year its Nov12 16 days apart. WHAT ARE THE YEARS FROM THOSE 6. Do you remember??? And were any of them during gun season and which ones.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look at some of the studies by Al Brothers. IMO the best times to catch big bucks vary widely by region. My best came in Jan of 2007 around 8am and I don't recall moon phase. One thing I do know is that the "RUT" is onset by photoperiods and not cold weather or neccessarily the moon phase. Although the moon is somewhat linked with photoperiods. I know there are alot of theories out there, but there also are alot of variables that have to be input to make the playing field level. Management, Food, Pressure, Location, and yes the Rut.......all of these contribute to a hunters success at bagging a big mature deer and I am not certain that there is a magic time that works everywhere. Just my thoughts, glad to see I am not the only one who has whitetail on the brain 24-7 and sits around looking at data like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hoytman, here's a year summary of the above-mentioned November bucks and the circumstances at the time. The hunting pressure here is quite light compared to other jurisdictions and none of these seemed at all concerned about being out in daylight or of any impending dangers.

Nov 17 1988 - 4x5 - chasing does

Nov 16 1989 - 5x4 - chasing does

Nov 16 1990 - 7x6 - chasing does

Nov 16 1991 - 5x5 - tending a doe; other does nearby

Nov 20 1994 - 6x6 - tending a doe

Nov 18 2005 - 7x6 - nose to ground, on the move

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may throw a monkey wrench into the theory.

My best buck was killed in Kansas on Nov. 20, 2004. He officially scored 184 1/4" gross and 175 1/8" net B&C and yes I did enter him in B&C.

Now...here's the dates of the mature bucks (4 1/2 years old or older) that I've killed in Mississippi just over the past 6 years.

9 point killed on 1/11/03

8 point killed on 11/30/03

9 point killed 1/13/05

6 point (19" spread cull buck) killed 12/15/06

8 point killed 1/9/07

10 point killed 12/17/07

8 point killed 1/5/08

If you really want to know the best time to hunt mature bucks in your area, check with your local taxidermist. He knows when to expect most of the trophy bucks to come into his shop. ;)

Charles Alsheimer also says for the south it is around the 3rd full moon after the fall equinox. So this is also neat to see because this explains why all these deer are so late in the season. Thanks!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest adrenaline_junky

MY biggest buck was taken on November 2nd 2006 in Ohio at 458 PM. He scored 158 6/8 P&Y and had 10 points. I've read that book and agree with the theory, I've always seen the biggest bucks of my carreer right around that second full moon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Charles Alsheimer also says for the south it is around the 3rd full moon after the fall equinox. So this is also neat to see because this explains why all these deer are so late in the season. Thanks!!!!!

Yes I know that's what he says but as you can see my kills don't exactly coincide with that moon phase either. Also, peak rut dates vary greatly across Mississippi. Anywhere from the 1st week of December to the 1st week of February.

Here's a copy of the Mississippi Deer Mean Conception Date Map from our state game department's web site and you'll see what I'm talking about.

MS_Breeding_date_range.JPG

If you'd like to check out their web site regarding this, here's a link. http://www.mdwfp.com/Level2/Wildlife/Game/Deer/deer_breeding.asp

Basically I agree with some other well know deer biologist that believe the conception date for does is basically the same every year for a particular area. It may be skewed a few days one way or the other by the moon phase but not drastically.

BTW, according to this map the mean conception date for the area I hunt is Jan. 2nd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.