Can a Muslim...........

[Guest Andrea]

CAN A MUSLIM BE A GOOD AMERICAN?

( *****got this in an email)

This is something I've wondered about for some time now: How & why do the Muslims hate us & everyone else so much? Doesn't their God teach them to love?

Can a good Muslim be a good American?

I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans.

Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.

If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above statements, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.

Pass it on, Fellow Americans.

This war is MUCH bigger than most Americans know or can understand

[Steven]

I didn't write this, I found it after a short search after reading Andrea's post. I do, however agree with it for the most part...

Recently someone came up with an explanation as to why someone of the Islamic faith cannot possible be a good American. This is in response to that ignorance. The writer asks..

"Can a good Muslim be a good American?" In doing so, he sets himself up for a fall.

"Consider the following:" And of the Christian Fundamentalist, consider the following as well.

"Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia."

And of the Christian Fundamentalist...Theologically- NO Because his allegiance is to God, the Sun God of Egypt. This is why God is Most High (At Noon), Jesus can be seen as an archetype Son of the Sun God and the Gospels are the account of a one year trip of the Sun Jesus through the signs of the Zodiac, and I ain't kiddn! The origin all gods in the human psyche is the SUN and all that it does for humans. This is why in the Old Testament it says in Malachi that the "sun will rise with healing in his wings," which is statement about the messiah to come. In Revelation, Jesus is also called the "son of the morning star," which of course is the SUN, or the Planet Venus depending. Long story. Don't sweat Allah the moon god.

"Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)"

And of the Christian Fundamentalist...Religiously- NO Because "there is no other name under heaven, (Jesus) by which a man can be saved. There is one true Christian Church and whoever believes on the name of the Lord..Jesus Christ, shall be saved, while others are condemned. Fundamentalist Christians do NOT accept any other religious beliefs as valid to theirs, so no difference here.

"Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran)."

And of the American Fundamentalist...Scripturally NO because his allegiance is to the Ten Pillars of Christianity, which they tend to modify according to the need, and the Bible, which is neither always historically accurate nor inerrant, no matter what they say! There is nothing in America that says you have to be a Bible believing Christian to be a true American. It is freedom of religion here...all religions. If Fundamentalists have their way, we might all want to amend the Bill of Rights to say "freedom FROM religion."

"Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day."

And of the American Fundamentalist...Geographically No because his mental allegiance is to Jerusalem, Israel and the Holy Land at least twice a week, about which they talk all the time as if they have ever been there, know the real history of, or think they would be welcome. Millions of Christian Americans have a soft spot for Rome too...

"Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews."

And of the Christian Fundamentalist...Socially NO because his allegiance to Christianity forbids him to make friends with "the world" (love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, whoever loves the world, the love of the father is not in him.") Paul cursed the Jews in the New Testament, and hoped they'd cut their private parts if they wanted to be circumcised. Martin Luther , a Christian, taught they should be killed like pigs. Lots of places in NT tell the church to have no relationships outside the church. including not being "unequally yoked with unbelievers."

"Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan."

And of the Christian Fundamentalist...Politically No because he must submit to the ministry, ( "obey those that have the rule over you, {ministers}, for they watch out for your souls"). Many Fundamentalist Christians teach and hope for the annihilation of everyone outside of Israel. Christians often attribute anything against them as of the Great Satan Christian fundamentalists call Roman Catholicism, the Great *****, so don't sweat someone calling America or Washington the Great Satan. Paul cursed anyone who did not believe his true gospel and called the people of Crete, liars. Jesus is said to have said the Pharisees were "of your Father the Devil." Name calling envoking the name of Satan to define the enemy is a fundamentalist art form. It's what you do when you are afraid of the unknown.

"Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34)."

And of the Christian Fundamentalist...Domestically no because a fundamentalist Christian is instructed to marry only one which is his property, but cannot talk in church and can only ask her husband bible questions at home. A christian believes if you "beat (spank)a child with a rod, it won't kill him." Fundamentalist Christian women are to keep silence in the church, obey their husbands as unto the Lord, and call him "Lord" as did Sarah (all in NT). They are to give him sex as a part of her duty and submit. The Koran and the Bible sprang from the same culture, which few Fundamentalist Chrsitians realize or think about. In many respects the Taliban are to the Koran what the Fundamentalist Christians are to the Bible. PS...Lots of Fundamentalist Christian men abuse their wives with the word.

"Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt."

And of the Christian Fundamentalist...Intellectually no, because he can't accept that the American Constitution was NOT predicated on founding fundamentalist, Old Covenant believing Fathers. I would not use the word "intellectual" with Christian fundamentalists either, as critical thinking or the examining of evidence that runs contrary to their established belief system is not encouraged. This was called the Dark Ages in the European past.

"Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist."

And of the Christian Fundamentalists...Philosophically no because Christianity, Jesus and the Bible do not allow freedom of religion if you take the Old and New Testaments as the only way to be or literally enforceable in our culture today. Fundamentalists look to the commands of "God" in the Old Testament, to kill unbelievers, just as much as they think Islamics do in reading the Koran. Fundamentalist would only tolerate Christian values, which can be atrocious at times, and morality, which can be appalling. True Democracy and Biblical Christianity cannot co exist either. Someone would insist on someone else losing their rights to free thought. "My Kingdom is not of this world, if my kingdom was of this world, then would my servants fight," said Jesus in Matthew. No military solutions were encouraged by Jesus unless there was only one sword per 12 disciples allowed. Turn the other cheek, Love your enemies, don't slay them. Christian Fundamentalism is a good example of the mess you get when you mix Old Testament politics with New Testament sentiments, thinking it takes both to make up a proper Christian text. It's old wine in new wineskins.

"Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic."

And of the Christian Fundamentalist...Every Christian Fundamentalist government is either dictatorial or autocratic too. This statement shows the ignorance of whoever made it up. The Christian Kings of Europe didn't do to badly in the dictatorial or autocratic department, and might we mention the Popes?

"Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names."

And of the Christian Fundamentalists...Spiritually no because the God and Jesus of the Book of Revelation drowns the world in blood, plagues, signs, trumpets, vials and slaughter. The Christian Jesus is loving but no one does what he really says as it really is too hard. The Christian God the father is absent mostly, but is angry, jealous, and is patterned after the war gods of paganism every bit as much. I suggest a good read of Karen Armstrongs. History of God. The Fundamentalist Christian God is 'loving" only to the degree you obey and fall in line. If not, you are toast just as with any other "god" The Jesus of the Gospels is NOT the same being in the book of Revelation. The fundy Jesus comes back with a Rod of Iron to threaten and beat the poop out of those that don't obey and love God #1 the father and God # 2 himself...we won't get into God #3. Monotheism is basically divisive by nature, even if the one God is three, co-this and co-that.

"Therefore after much study and deliberation.... perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish.... it's still the truth."

And of Christian Fundamentalists..Therefore after much study and deliberation..perhaps we should all be very suspicious of ALL, and I Mean ALLLLLLLL Christians in this country. They obviously can't be both good Christians and Good Americans. Call it what you will, it's still the truth.

Side note: Whoever actually came up with this ignorant and insane list of reasons why an Islamic cannot be a good American is deluded, ignorant, self absorbed, mistaken, misinformed and the reason we'll end up with nothing but a sanitation problem to fix and where will we be then? Actually they are FunnyMentalists, which was nicely coined by someone recently.

"If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above statements, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future."

Actually if you find yourself in agreements with the above statements about why a Muslim cannot be a good American, you will have to also conclude that neither can a good Christian fundamentalist be one.

[Guest Andrea]

Well, no wonder you don't believe in God Steven.......if you believe what you just posted then you are truly misinformed as to what a TRUE Christian really is.

Sorry, but what you posted made me laugh. How ridiculous.....

[stevebeilgard]

Well, no wonder you don't believe in God Steven.......if you believe what you just posted then you are truly misinformed as to what a TRUE Christian really is.

Sorry, but what you posted made me laugh. How ridiculous.....

i agree

[Guest Zirkel]

Steven,

+1

Thanks for a great post. The real problem with the world is religous extremism. And there are plenty of them growing right here in Amercia.

Zirkel

[buckee]

his allegiance is to God, the Sun God of Egypt. This is why God is Most High (At Noon), Jesus can be seen as an archetype Son of the Sun God and the Gospels are the account of a one year trip of the Sun Jesus through the signs of the Zodiac, and I ain't kiddn! The origin all gods in the human psyche is the SUN and all that it does for humans. This is why in the Old Testament it says in Malachi that the "sun will rise with healing in his wings," which is statement about the messiah to come. In Revelation, Jesus is also called the "son of the morning star," which of course is the SUN, or the Planet Venus depending. Long story. Don't sweat Allah the moon god.

What a piece of work. God is no Sun God, made up by the Egyptians. The Egyptians never even knew or worshipped my God. They enslaved God's people.

My God made the sun and the moon, and the stars.

Who makes up this trash ?

Geesh, Now I want to see one comparing atheists to being Good Americans. Lets see how that one turns out ... There is a belief among atheist, that all, and I mean all religions, should be wiped off the face of the earth, so that man can be truly Free.

Truly Free means Total Chaos, but they are blinded to that fact.

All morality as we know it today, comes from God. Without him, we would have destroyed ourselves thousands of years ago.

I'm not even going to address the rest of this garbage, because it's a waste of my time.

The truth is, that it's Evil Principalities and Powers, that are the Real enemy to all people everywhere, and all governments in every country.

Those Evil Principalities and Powers have been at work in All countries, since the beginning of time.

[preacherman]

Steven,

+1

Thanks for a great post. The real problem with the world is religous extremism. And there are plenty of them growing right here in Amercia.

Zirkel

would you mind defining "religious extremism"? If that is the problem, then I really want to know what it is, in your opinion.

[Dawg]

That's pretty interesting Andrea.

As far as that other post goes...............I stopped reading at the second sentence of the first paragraph.................................pure garbage.........that is nothing but herosy.

[buckee]

Here's something else to think about.

Can an Atheist be a good American?

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to himself, and he relies on his own understanding and set of rules.

Religiously - no. Because no religion is accepted by an Atheist

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to himself only and will change with the wind.

Geographically - no. Because doesn't Pray to a god, or God, therefore it hardly matters .

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to himself only and makes it very difficult to make friends with Christians ,Jews,any other person of faith, or anyone who doesn't agree with him..

Politically - no. Because he submits to no-one. His authority and understanding, is above others. He is his own spiritual leader, and will teach or wish for the annihilation of all religion.

Domestically - no. Because he has no real solid moral codes, other that that which he believes or has adopted as his own. It can change with the wind.

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot reason, other than through his own understanding. He has no foundation, to base his reasoning on. The name or even the thought of God means, he would have to hand over the self reigns to another, and mean nothing to him. And since the American Constitution is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be a fairy tale, he would change it too, with the wind..

Philosophically - no. Because True Atheism, does not allow freedom of religion, only personal expression. Democracy and Atheism cannot co-exist, because Democracy without a solid foundation, would be lawlessness. An Atheist government would be utter chaos.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving and kind, while the Atheist God comes in all forms of men and woman, since his/her God is themselves.

Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL Atheist in this country. They obviously cannot be both 'good' Athiests and good Americans.

Who is a good American or Canadian for that matter?

Those who believe in what the founding fathers believed, and Hope that God will bless and not curse them for their leaders and their country's deeds. Those with a Godly conscience and a good foundation.

I believe there are some real tough times ahead. None of which man has ever seen before. Hold on to your socks.

[Guest Zirkel]

Just to set things straight, I am a Presbyterian, not an atheist. I believe in the Prince of Peace. What I don't believe in is the blind hatred that so many of the Religous Right seem to think is justififed by their interpretation of the Bible. That is what spurred me to comment on this post.

Peace be with you,

Zirkel

[preacherman]

Just to set things straight, I am a Presbyterian, not an atheist. I believe in the Prince of Peace. What I don't believe in is the blind hatred that so many of the Religous Right seem to think is justififed by their interpretation of the Bible. That is what spurred me to comment on this post.

Peace be with you,

Zirkel

I agree that there are those who take "religion" so to speak way to far. But when you read the Bible and then attempt to match up their lives of hate and despise, they are not what would be referred to as Christians.

But where we have to be careful is making the statement of "hatred" concerning someone who is standing on the principles of the Word of God. I do not "hate" anyone. I love those who are homosexuals and those who believe in abortion and those who do not believe in God and the list could go on and on and on. But I stand and believe and preach that the Bible names these things as sin and blindness in its own right. And I will not back down from where I believe on this thought! I will stand strongly in preaching against these lifestyles. But that doesn't mean that I "hate" them. That is why we must be careful about the word "hate" and "religion" That is just my .02 worth.

[wtnhunt]

Religion means nothing without faith. Extremists of any sort in my opinion are not truly religious, nor do they have faith. Not that I agree with him, and maybe I am wrong, but I think I can kind of see where Steven is coming from.

Under the name of Christianity during the crusades many people were brutally murdered. Those people(self proclaimed christians) really believed what they were doing was right, but I highly doubt that they were people of true faith, and more than likely that they were much like those who are brainwashed by the extremist muslims, which really means they were weak minded. Really in my mind, those people were not in any way Christians at all, likewise the extremist jihadists may not represent the views of all muslims.

There have been plenty of examples in history of one group within a group or another attempting to represent an entire group under false pretenses to accomplish their own goals. The call for jihad by extremist at current is what this thread is all about. Unfortunately I can kind of see where Steven as well as many other people may make connections to different groups and see things as being twisted a bit. Do I believe all non-Christians are evil, absolutely not, however I do believe that they are lost in the sense that they do not have faith. There is a huge difference in being evil and being lost or not having faith. Aside from them not having faith in the God I know and trust and love, exactly where the muslims fit into this I am really not sure as I have not and will not study the koran nor have I checked what is posted to be factual, but think assuming that they are all evil or anti American and out to get us may be just a bit overly cynical.

No doubt the extremist have the goal to wipe out anyone who does not follow them, but to say that everyone in that religious group is evil would be kind of like saying everyone who was a Christian at the time of the crusades was evil because of what was being done there, which I do not hardly think was really the case.

Unfortunately anyone can call themself what they want to, there is no doubt there are self proclaimed christians in churches everytime the church building doors are opened, and those people can still be lost and be the worst of the worst sinners that there are, but a true Christian that knows and trusts in God will be forgiving and loving and not grudge other groups for not understanding them.

[Guest ohbowhntr]

I agree that there are those who take "religion" so to speak way to far. But when you read the Bible and then attempt to match up their lives of hate and despise, they are not what would be referred to as Christians.

But where we have to be careful is making the statement of "hatred" concerning someone who is standing on the principles of the Word of God. I do not "hate" anyone. I love those who are homosexuals and those who believe in abortion and those who do not believe in God and the list could go on and on and on. But I stand and believe and preach that the Bible names these things as sin and blindness in its own right. And I will not back down from where I believe on this thought! I will stand strongly in preaching against these lifestyles. But that doesn't mean that I "hate" them. That is why we must be careful about the word "hate" and "religion" That is just my .02 worth.

Great post, Preacherman!!!

[Steven]

I'm glad somebody actually got the point. Thanks William.

And anybody who took my post seriously, especially those who know me pretty well, should really step back and look at it again.

[davetucker]

i have to agree with william on most of his reply.but i do believe that muslim world is out to destroy america and it's people.It's a fact they (the muslim faith)have said so therselves.No probably not all muslims but the ones that portrayed the act of violence on us on 911 were muslims and worshiped jihad or whatever you call him.I really don't follwo this issue that much because it does make me sick that people out there make women and children tie bombs to themselves and blow them and others to pieces.How can you call that right.Maybe i'm not on the same page as everyone else but when someone associates muslim to americans this is what comes to mind.All i can think about is my young children not living a full life cause some scum who thinks he can take over the world is going to cause world war three!!Sorry for babbling!!

[muggs]

I'm sure both an Atheist and a Muslim can be good Americans, as a matter of fact, I'm not sure why someone's theological views would ever come into play with a person's ability to be a good citizen of the country he or she lives in.

I do find it ironic that Christians always point out that Muslims don't except any religion that doesn't worship Allah. Shouldn't they realize that Christians view religions that don't worship Christ in the same vain?

Just another example of the hate mongering and small minded bigotry mankind creates for themselves under the guise of "religion." I think if mankind as a whole would be mature enough to realize the path to God can't be found by using your religion to give your self importance or by looking down on others, they'd be the better for it.

I believe in God, but I will never follow any man made religion. The amount of blood spilled over these man made religions, the ideas like Catholic indulgence, book burnings, Isquisitions etc... are enough proof to me that mad made relgion has done more to take mankind away from God then it has to bring us closer to him.

Just my two cents, and I'm not trying to attack your thread Andrea. It's just that this line of thinking scares me sometimes.

[Guest Andrea]

Just my two cents, and I'm not trying to attack your thread Andrea. It's just that this line of thinking scares me sometimes.

No problem......you're a Browns fan, enough said. LMBO!!:D:p:D

[dlriggins]

And to think people said this kind of stuff about Japanese and Germans back in WWII

But what is more American than watching your SONY big screen and polishing your hunting rifle with the Mauser action while you hear about how some Muslim extremist killed another American soldier on CNN.

I dont know who is right but I do know this... 50 years from now the winner of this conflict will be praised as the right one by one society and scorned by another.

I will make my decisions based on the actions of individuals

I believe in Jesus love me hate me, I dont care but if that is the only thing that forms your opinion about me then mabey you are the one who is too narrow minded to be a good American. Oh yeah Jesus was a Jew .... How do Americans feel about Jews?

for what its worth I like you and I dont care Jew Hebrew Arab Muslim atheist Worship the little chubby bald guy because you are free to do so and that is American.

[Missilelock]

Muggs, Christianity is not a man made religion. Its a God made religion, that was manifested when God sent Christ as a man to earth to die for each of us.

William I gotta think if you arent following Christ, then satan is the one in control of your life, therefore there theres plenty of evil in there, whether its showing on the outside or not.... just a thought.

[wtnhunt]

William I gotta think if you arent following Christ, then satan is the one in control of your life, therefore there theres plenty of evil in there, whether its showing on the outside or not.... just a thought.

Guess that is where opinions can differ, and I simply do not agree. There are plenty of people who are not evil out there who do not have Christ in their life. They may very well be lost, but they are not consumed with evil and do not purposefully have any ill wishes or evil thoughts. Being lost and being evil are completely different in my opinion, and the difference is huge. For that matter since you brought this up, Christians will even have thoughts that are evil at times too, but they beg for forgiveness and are forgiven through our saviour, but satan is not in control over their life.

[muggs]

Muggs, Christianity is not a man made religion. Its a God made religion, that was manifested when God sent Christ as a man to earth to die for each of us.

I think you're missing my point. If Christianity is not man made, then why are there so many different Christian denominations? Because, man has different interrpretations of what he believes to the true Christianity or how they believe to follow God, that's why. Case in point- this is one of the best examples of man's interference with God.

And by this I'm not saying Christ didn't exist or that he shouldn't be followed. What I am saying is that with time, man's nature has corrupted God's original intentions.

How many wars has mankind started in what he thought was the name of God- whether that God is Christ or Allah? Again, man going away from God's intentions.

What I'm sayings is a person can be a Christian and never attend a church. Also, I think people use the word "religion" improperly. I've heard people say of a man who doesn't attend a church as "not religious" when in fact he could be more spiritual than some leaders of churches.

To take this a step further, a "religion" is by definition the way you view the world. So even an athiest can have a religion, I would just argue that he's religion would not be a spiritually based one.

[preacherman]

Guess that is where opinions can differ, and I simply do not agree. There are plenty of people who are not evil out there who do not have Christ in their life. They may very well be lost, but they are not consumed with evil and do not purposefully have any ill wishes or evil thoughts. Being lost and being evil are completely different in my opinion, and the difference is huge. For that matter since you brought this up, Christians will even have thoughts that are evil at times too, but they beg for forgiveness and are forgiven through our saviour, but satan is not in control over their life.

I would agree with William on this one! There is none righteous, no not one! That comes from the good book. We all still have the possibility to be evil in nature; because of our human nature and the flesh still living within us. So, to say that a Christian, someone who has been born again doesn't have evil thoughts or do evil deeds is totally wrong!

And also, I agree with William on the thought of not every "lost" person is a bad person. Matter of fact, you go back and study the Bible and the Word gives plenty of accounts of men and women who were not evil in nature; but were still lost. I can't tell you how many people that I have come in contact with in my ministry who are good people, who are not right with God. Matter of fact, I think of a man right now that I know personally who is a friend of mine. He would give me or anyone around him the shirt off his back. He is good to his family and a good citizen of this community; but he is not saved. So, to say that every lost person is always up to evil deeds is not a true statement!

[Missilelock]

I absolutley agree that not all lost people ar up to evil deeds all the time, but i do think the capability to do evil things is in us all. Hopefully as Christians the thoughts will never be manifested into action because of conviiction of the Holy Spirit. With the lost, the only thing stopping the bad things from coming out is fear of the consequenses. I think if you could take away all fear of consequenses, your good lost friends & lost neighbors might not be such nice people anymore???

[wtnhunt]

I think if you could take away all fear of consequenses, your good lost friends & lost neighbors might not be such nice people anymore???

Afraid I would have to disagree with that as well. There is a sense of self satisfaction in doing good for most people, and in doing what is right, people can often make themselves feel better without any relation with God or Christ. Think that all goes back to a persons morals and values.

[preacherman]

I think if you could take away all fear of consequenses, your good lost friends & lost neighbors might not be such nice people anymore???

You take away the "fear of consequences" and we all might not be such good people anymore.