JimT Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Re: Abortion I think it should stay the way it is. If a woman wants to abort, let her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion William--having two daughters of my own I agree with you 100%. todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion love. rape. marriage. do you realize this forum would be empty if YOUR mother had an abortion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted January 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion I guess love rape marriage go hand in hand then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion [ QUOTE ] love. rape. marriage [/ QUOTE ] Out of these three that you mention, which one would be most likely to ask for an abortion ????? IMO...love and marriage are in a whole different mind set of their own.....so I think (IMO) the statement that we wouldn't be here today if our mothers had an abortion is highly unlikely if you compare the annual birth rate of today to the rate of abortions as of today the ratio isn't even comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted January 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion My point exactly.. "I" came from a loving married relationship..so I don't see me "NOT" being on the forums... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldawg Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion Why would this forum be empty if my mother had an abortion? She had six kids, and it takes more than that to fill these forums...lol. A sarcastic statement, aimed back at another sarcastic one. But, it was a civil one...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion [ QUOTE ] you man, the law. There is no way a rapist should have any parental claims on the baby of his victim....NO WAY [/ QUOTE ] On that law, no way the rapist is going to have any rights if he is in jail first of all. Second of all he cannot tell the woman/girl what she can or cannot do. If it is my daughter and he comes around he would be wishing he was in jail with bubba. Custody suits and parental right cases as you suggest Luke do go to court and I believe if it came down to the law and a convicted rapist was asking for rights in regards to a child, the courts would not give him any rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion My vote goes to the woman's right to choose. The human population is not going to go extinct if some women get abortions. In fact it may be a better place if a few more got abortions. If the woman does not want the kid in their life, or the pregnancy, I have no problem with her decision of aborting it. Shouldn't kids be in a family where they are wanted, not resented for ruining someome's life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KSNimrod Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion Here's another real life scenario for you: Ever talk with a woman who had an abortion after the fact that felt good about it? I haven't. I know there must be some but I haven't met any. In my opinion the relief that an abortion provides the mother is just a shell game. The stress on her emotional and spiritual makeup is simply deferred until after the fact. At that time the decision has been made and aside from the grace of God expressed through people she is generally without hope and despondant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted January 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion Never said it would be an easy decision. It should NOT be as well...But I also DO NOT believe that a woman should wait more than 3 months to decide...It is when a fetus get more and more able to survive outside the womb that I have a problem with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion [ QUOTE ] Custody suits and parental right cases as you suggest Luke do go to court and I believe if it came down to the law and a convicted rapist was asking for rights in regards to a child, the courts would not give him any rights. [/ QUOTE ] All I can say is don't move to Vermont then...You will be greatly dissapointed and shocked at what the outcome would be... [ QUOTE ] On that law, no way the rapist is going to have any rights if he is in jail first of all. Second of all he cannot tell the woman/girl what she can or cannot do. [/ QUOTE ] And on this part look at the sentencing of this crime just how long do you think he will spend in jail ??? I can tell you he will be out before the baby turns 6...Then his parental visitation rights kick in believe me.....and if you happen to be raising this baby as your own...that ends the day he is released since you are not the biological father of this child you aren't even allowed in the court room....now there's a sad reality...but it's true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion Vermont must have some really whacked laws. So from what I gather by what you are saying here is that the father after spending 6 years in jail could go to court face a judge and take custody away from the mother and the biological grandparents ? Would have to be some kind of sick judge to even consider granting any rights including visitation to a known convicted rapist. Seriously do not see how he could have ANY rights to the child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion As for total custody I don't see this ever happening...but I do know for a fact he is intitled to supervised visitation and is required to pay child support. He is intitled to express how the child is raised and the heatlth welfare of said child and the man raising this child can't adopt this child unless the maggot signs over full custody and waive his rights to said child... Do I agree with this....I think you can tell I'm not....This is going to sound harsh and I'll take alot of flak for this statement but IMO the animal that would comitt such a savage act...should be put down for the defective animal he is...like I said this is JMO.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion [ QUOTE ] should be put down for the defective animal he is...like I said this is JMO. [/ QUOTE ] Can agree with you on that for sure. If there is not any doubt, think capital punishment shouldbe fitting. Back on the laws issue, so what happens while this piece of crap is in jail for the 6 years if he is not able to pay any support. Does he still have any rights ? That entire thing sounds like a screwed up mess to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Abortion There is no way around the fact that he is the Biological father and by law as the rights of a father. He just has no visitation while he is incarserated ( Keep in mind I am speaking of the case I know of first hand ) I'm sure this differs from case to case. As for suport this is paid for by the state until such said maggot get's out and gets a job, in which he will be required to pay this amount back to the taxpayers of that state... Yep it's pretty screwed up I agree, fortunately for my sister this idiot was smart enough to relinguish all of his rights and moved out of state...Not that me and my brother had anything to do with this.... ....OH MY don't turn us in guys... As far as I know he has never been heard from again. Hopefully face down in a gutter somewhere...OOOOps me bad again..I apologize for that last statement.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Re: Abortion VH, I understand what your saying but in most states a someone convicted of a violent sex crime wouldnt have a chance, that would be like giving visitation to a pedophile.The court might make that ruling but i would think the social services would raise holy **** about it.It would be along the same lines as giving an abusive father parental custody, it would never fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Re: Abortion [ QUOTE ] The court might make that ruling but i would think the social services would raise holy **** about it. [/ QUOTE ] Social Services....Yeah right,,, there's something left to be disred right there in this state. I think their meaning of SOCIAL is picking up the phone and gossiping with their friend and family members.. And for the likely hood of this ever happening....well sad as it may be it already has and I have a emotionally disfunctional sister and a very confused niece to remind me of this fact on a dailey basis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Re: Abortion My heart goes out to your sister and niece Luke That's just ...what's the word ...astounding, crazy, sinful....I don't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Re: Abortion Oh, VH, you misunderstood me, Im not saying it hasnt happened, Im just saying it wouldnt be the case in most states. [ QUOTE ] but in most states a someone convicted of a violent sex crime wouldnt have a chance [/ QUOTE ] Im sorry to hear about your sister and niece, Like Buckee, said theres no words for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Re: Abortion What a crazy world we live in, that's for sure.... Like I said in my first post on this subject "This debate no matter how you want to go about it is just a double edge sword" the PRO'S and CON'S are about equal so in the end I see NO winners.... And guy's no worries with lots of family support and love they will do just fine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: Abortion This one is heated and I'll kind of stay out but here's a scenario to chew on. "early testing at the doctor tells you that the child will be born with a severe, quality of life diminishing disability" Not Down's syndrome but one that would make the child in ?'s life painful and dependant on others 100% of his/her life. Do you abort the fetus? or do you and your wife carry the baby to term, have the child, spend the rest of your life looking after the child that spends his/her life in a wheelchair, unable to eat on his/her own, unable to communicate, unable to do basically anything except be alive. Do you do this knowing that when you and your wife/husband pass on, the child you spent your entire life looking after will be sent to a home to be in all likelihood visited by very few people if anybody for the rest of their life and to be looked after by strangers? I'm sure I'll be burned at the stake for this one but I think I know what I'd do. And I'd do it because I'm not sure if it is fair for some people to live the lives that they do live. Bring it on.....I know so many of you are waiting to bash me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: Abortion Well, I'm not gonna bash you SaskMan, but here's my take on your thought's. I have heard of some stories that have the same premise as what you brought up, people being told that the child might not live, the mother might not live, the child would be handicapped etc. etc. Instead of aborting the child they believed that everything would trun out fine, and sometimes they are right and often times things turn out just the way they are told they would. It all comes down to personal choice, what you believe, some people regret having an abortion, some people don't. Some women get raped , get pregnant and carry the child full term and some abort it right away. Some may regret carrying the child full term and some may regret not carrying the child. It all depends on one's own personal feeling on the subject and what you feel is right for you or the child. I do not believe in abortion as a method of birth control, but what happens if a woman is on the pill and the man is using a raincoat and the woman gets pregnant, well, they took the responsibility to have sex, but they also tried to prevent an unwanted pregnancy through the means that were available to them and she still wound up pregnant. My fiance's twin sister went through a situation similar to that where she got pregnant on accident even while on the pill, she always had said that she would have an abortion if she got pregnant because she felt she was to selfish to be able to care for a child, well, today she has a beautiful, blond haired almost 4 year old girl. Who's to say someone might feel the same way or differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: Abortion Your scenario here is bound to get some very broadly varied answers. I would say that my wife and I would be really praying alot. Not knowing if the doctors might be making a mistake, I have to take my chances with God on this one and hope and pray the doctors are wrong or that our prayers will be miraculously answered and the baby would be fine. Dont think we could make the decision to abort the life of our child even if the doctors say something is wrong. Doctors can and have been wrong too many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted January 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: Abortion I have hear about people praying and hoping for a miracle that when they found out early that something would be wrong with the child, they just prayed and prayed and asked God to perform a miracle...and it just does not happen that way... It always reminds me of the story of the old man sitting on top of his house. A storm had blown in and was flooding the streets and the water was rising higher and higher on his two-story house. Soon a National Guard Humvee comes trudging through the high water. The dirver shines a light up to the roof and says neighbor, you'd better come down from there, the rain is not going to stop. You are going to drown. The old man says, No, Thats OK, God will take care of everything. So the Gurad leaves...The man just sits on his house praying and praying to God...About an hour later, the water has already come over the first floor of the mans home and a boat comes by. It is the firs chief. HE says, neighbor, you'd better come down form there, get into this boat and let me take to to safety! The man says no, that's OK, God will take care of me...so the Fire Cheif leaves and the man continues to pray.. About an hour goes by, water has almost covered the rooftop of the house..a helicopter comes by abd the man yells down to the old man..Neighbor, you'd better climb this ladder and get into this helicopter!! It is raining till tomorrow and you will die if you do not get up here and let me take you to safety. The old man refused, the helicopter leaves... The man finds himself in front of the pearly gates..when he meets God he asked God..Why did you let me die? I prayed and prayed to you to take care of me!!! You did nothing!! GOD WHY DID YOU LET ME DOWN!!! God replied..when you prayed to me the first time, I sent you a firetruck..you did not go..When you prayed to me the second time, I sent you a boat, you did not go...You prayed to me again..I sent you a helicopter..aparently you did not want to live so I brought you home... What I am trying to say in all this is: IF you get a test early and it shows that there could be a serious problem..get another test and pray about it..if that test turns out the same bad news, maybe get another test..if it turns out the same..maybe God is answering your prayers..if you carry it to term and there are severe problems, it is something you have ot deal with... It is only a choice you can make..but if all the answers are before you..make the right choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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