Another issue..................

[Strut10]

..........of Boone & Crockett's "Fair Chase" magazine.

Fourth (at least) issue in a row that no whitetail entries were registered form the "trophy" state of Pennsylvania. Go figure.

Thanks Gary.

[sskybnd]

does pennsyvania have trophey whitetails, maybe you need to slide a little west into ohio:D

[aksheephuntress]

..........of Boone & Crockett's "Fair Chase" magazine.

Fourth (at least) issue in a row that no whitetail entries were registered form the "trophy" state of Pennsylvania. Go figure.

Thanks Gary.

.....We get B&C quarterly...I've always noticed the Pa black bear records every 5 0r 6 entry...(WOW!...Pa has some awesome bear)..

......but as far as the lack of Pa Whitetail entries....typical, or non-typical.....do you think the institution of the APR by the biologists a few years ago helped....or hindered...the situation??(really curious on your opinion...this is an area I have been out-of-touch with for a long time-)

-Can't imagine this is an oversite of B&C mag- they seem to be pretty thorough and dedicated to publishing all that are officially measured and entered.-or...is an official measurer not submitting something?(I couldn't tell exactly what you meant...)

[Tominator]

does pennsyvania have trophey whitetails, maybe you need to slide a little west into ohio:D

Why? There are no big deer here.

[Strut10]

does pennsyvania have trophey whitetails.....

We're supposed to have oodles of them. That's what we were promised years ago when the new deer "management" program was instituted.

[Strut10]

.....We get B&C quarterly...I've always noticed the Pa black bear records every 5 0r 6 entry...(WOW!...Pa has some awesome bear)..

Yep. One of those from last issue was mine.

......but as far as the lack of Pa Whitetail entries....typical, or non-typical.....do you think the institution of the APR by the biologists a few years ago helped....or hindered...the situation??

What antler restriction has done is raised the bar of the average harvested buck a few inches and (in my area) produced more junk mature bucks and spike bucks than I've ever seen.......ever. It has majorly hindered.

-Can't imagine this is an oversite of B&C mag- they seem to be pretty thorough and dedicated to publishing all that are officially measured and entered.-or...is an official measurer not submitting something?(I couldn't tell exactly what you meant...)

What I meant (see the ":rolleyes:") was that when this whole messed up program was set in place, we Pennsylvanians were basically told that in a few years we'd have a trophy buck behind every other tree. Well..........7 years into the program, we've gone this whole past year without one 160" or better deer registered with B&C. Meanwhile VA and NY and NJ and MA and NC .............all states without any AR or much fanfare over big deer..........have registered multiple bucks. How do ya wanna figure that one??

[JimPic]

It's because the deer aren't getting older.Hunter's are now taking a whole age class of deer out of the system.Everyone sees a 6pt or 8pt and "BOOM".They're not getting any age to them--just a bunch of 2.5yr old's getting tagged every year.Pa. will never be the trophy state that so many hunter's bought into 7yrs ago

[sureshot]

it could be like here in sask, alot of hunters do not enter them, I know of at least 10 170 class bucks which have not been entered, I have at least 7 P&Y bucks not entered, the reason I do not is that there are to many people who hunt to get there name in the book, I mean hunt all year,the name means everything to them supposid hunters, I am not sayign all people with names in the book do this but here to many hunt for the "glory" of getting there name published!one guy on this site enters the animal but puts the hunters name unknown ,I like that idea,

[PAhunter14]

Pa. will never be the trophy state that so many hunter's bought into 7yrs ago

I dont think that many people bought into it they didnt have much choice.

[wtnhunt]

Could be worse Don, your state could impose liberal limits on does allowing 3 a day to be taken, and have no restrictions whatsoever on bucks, other than the 3 antlered deer statewide limit, granted they have 3 inches of antlers. Deer with less than 3 inches of antler and button bucks are counted as antlerless and do not count towards your buck totals. Lucky to see a deer around here make it past 2.5, and somehwhat similar to PA, there is no shortage of hunters here. Deer numbers around here have taken a pretty good hit the past few years and are without any doubt on a decline.

You posted pics of a pretty good mature buck taken off your property. The buck you posted pics of may not have quite made the books, but it was a trophy caliber deer in the eyes of many I am sure. Think Bret might be right too, sure some deer do not get entered for whatever reason. Have an uncle in Imler PA who has some pretty impressive trophies, he tells me there are no big deer in PA, that the big deer are in TN, lol:o:rolleyes:.

[punkinslinger]

Yes it could be worse...could have Booners all over and have every piece of ground leased or owned by outfitters to the point that we all would have only gamelands to hunt...I'll take the lesser of the two evils.

[buckbuster11]

I pretty much stand in agreement with most of your views on AR Don, but I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the # of B&C entries or lack there of.

I know there was one shot this past archery in PA that was measured in the 175" range I believe, don't know if it was officially entered or not.

I've put my hands on a few racks over the years that would give B&C a run for their money, but none of those have ever been entered to the best of my knowledge.

I personally know only a handful of guys at most that would even bother entering a buck of that size into the book. Most of the local deer hunting crowd around here wouldn't even know the first clue about measuring deer. I'm sure that's a big part of it.

[shockwave]

If things keep going at the rate they are now, were gonna have more bear than deer...

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

I think the lack of B&C entries is a valid measure of the deer herd's trophy potential. There will always be several from every state or province that don't get entered or just don't qualify because of the goofy fair chase rules, but if PA has previously had several (or numerous) entries each year and now they are getting none, then something is going on.

From what I can gather, the AR's in PA are based strictly on number of points per side. In my opinion, that is the absolute worst possible type of regulation for growing trophy sized bucks. This is guaranteed to remove the 1.5 year old 8 points, which are the very deer that need protecting the most! Those are your future trophies. In the mean time, those stupid 15 - 16 inch wide 6 pointers that are 3 years old get a free pass. You'll do better with no AR than one based strictly on the number of points per side.

[Strut10]

I pretty much stand in agreement with most of your views on AR Don, but I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the # of B&C entries or lack there of.

I know there was one shot this past archery in PA that was measured in the 175" range I believe, don't know if it was officially entered or not.

I've put my hands on a few racks over the years that would give B&C a run for their money, but none of those have ever been entered to the best of my knowledge.

I personally know only a handful of guys at most that would even bother entering a buck of that size into the book. Most of the local deer hunting crowd around here wouldn't even know the first clue about measuring deer. I'm sure that's a big part of it.

Could be.

But I can't think that PA would be any different than any other state as far as the percentage of hunters not wishing to have their deer scored.

[Strut10]

From what I can gather, the AR's in PA are based strictly on number of points per side.

You are correct.

In my opinion, that is the absolute worst possible type of regulation for growing trophy sized bucks. This is guaranteed to remove the 1.5 year old 8 points, which are the very deer that need protecting the most! Those are your future trophies.

What I've been saying since this nonsense was started.

In the mean time, those stupid 15 - 16 inch wide 6 pointers that are 3 years old get a free pass.

Or 6 year old 22 5/8" wide 6-points. Or 3 year old 19" wide 3-points. Or 3 year old spikes. Yup.......I've seen 'em.

[aksheephuntress]

Could be.

But I can't think that PA would be any different than any other state as far as the percentage of hunters not wishing to have their deer scored.

....That's the question I wondered, once you explained where you were coming from (not that you weren't clear to begin with-I just didn't get it, initially)...in your 2nd post.

-I found the article in that (spring '06?) B&C that covers that APR the biologists recomended/had instituted a few years ago in your state...I found the subtitle of Dennis Walrod's article appropriate...and seems to mirror a lot of everyone's opinions on it...."Antler Point Restrictions....A Case of Unintended Consequences".......!

-It's too bad these things go this way, a lot of times...and I can understand your opinion on this- we have some things recomended from time to time up here...that subsequently get adopted in the F&G laws, that really don't make any long-term sense.

-Especially Dall sheep issues. We haven't had an ACCURATE and thorough sheep count since about 1993....(I just now had to erase a bunch more of my opinion on THAT:D:rolleyes:...sorry, I forgot this was your thread!)....Anyway-in response to some of the posts on your thread(and I think you will agree with me)...

: I feel compelled to make a statement on how important it is, for the sake of our nation's hunting future, for us ALL to make an effort to have our harvests measured....and , if known or even thought to be "record book",....that animal deserves to be officially measured and submitted for recording.

...Just about all of us have heard of "B&C", and "P&Y, and even nicknames like a "Booner"....but- it is crucial for us not to forget the trials, struggles, and close call this country experienced in regards to an almost non-existence of hunting ,as we know and enjoy,today.

.....Boone and Crockett and Pope and Young entries are far more than individual bragging rights....it is a national responsibility as hunters that we all readily have measured,then submitted-as detailed as possible-any species we harvest that would make record book minimums.

-I highly recomend any hunter- whether bowhunter, one who hunts with a rifle ,handgun,or with shotgun...and even muzzleloader enthusiast...to actually visit the Boone and Crockett, AND Pope and Young websites....and read how both organizations were formed into being...and to understand the tedius, scientific, almost nationalistic history of these clubs that saved the quality...and most probably existence....of our hunting , here in our country.

-Our respect of, support, and participation in these record-keeping, conservation-minded,fair chase-promoting clubs is crucial....We owe this to the vision and struggles of Theodore Roosevelt and Glen St. Charles; and the many others who contributed to the establishment of these two incredible American ideals.

-Speech over...., had to add it....- hope you didn't mind!

-ps., for Strut......I remember that picture of your B&C black bear- he is awesome!!!-and, thanks for this thread.

[JimPic]

I'm not a big fan of the AR's,BUT...the reason they were instated,along with massive herd reductions,was to get the deer herd back to manageable levels.In some parts of the state,they devastated the habitat.The buck/doe ratio was way off and still is in many parts.They were never intended to make Pa. a trophy state.Hunter's were told they would see bigger racked-buck as a result of the AR's,and now they are.

Personally,I used to see bigger,mature deer before the AR's and HR's

[buckbuster11]

Could be.

But I can't think that PA would be any different than any other state as far as the percentage of hunters not wishing to have their deer scored.

Good point.

[buckbuster11]

This is guaranteed to remove the 1.5 year old 8 points, which are the very deer that need protecting the most! Those are your future trophies. In the mean time, those stupid 15 - 16 inch wide 6 pointers that are 3 years old get a free pass. You'll do better with no AR than one based strictly on the number of points per side.

BINGO!!