Heated Marital Debate Over Santa

[TreeStandBowHunter]

I could really care less but my wife didn't want to push the Santa thing on our kids because she didn't want them to question the truth about God after they would finally figure out that Santa is not real. Therefore, no, our kids never believed in Santa. They know that he is a Christmas character but that's about the extent of it. In other words, they know mommy and daddy eat them there cookies on Christmas eve:D

[cinch314]

This is actually a really good debate from both sides. I can see both sides of view. Very interesting, very interesting.

[Swamphunter]

  hogdawg said:

Once again, I never said that folk who tell their children that santa is real will burn in ****. If I did, please quote me. I simply said that the Word of God says that all liars will have their part in the lake of fire. I didn't write the Word of God. I don't mind you all expressing your opinions, I haven't got bent out of shape like it seems some folk have. The reason I said to let it be is because, you ain't going to change my mind and I ain't gonna change any of ya'lls, so why keep going around this never ending cycle? BowJoe did get answers to his question, but why is it that when I express my views I get all but jumped on? Let it be.

..............dawg out.

In all due respect it does sound like your lake of fire comment is condemning us as liars to ****. No, you didn't write it, but you bring it up as a defense for your stance against our opinions. So I burn for letting my kids have a wonderful childhood, I'll deal with it.

Remember the "its ok to believe in the lake of fire, but not Santa comment??"

Ding, ding, ding another winner??

[Nut]

All I keep hearing in my head right now is Johnny Cash singing "Ring of Fire".....

[Dawg]

  Nut said:

All I keep hearing in my head right now is Johnny Cash singing "Ring of Fire".....

That's funny right there.

Swampdude, I see your point. That's just my belief, just as you letting your kids believe in santa is yours.

If you don't believe the Bible.......why pay any attention to what I say?

I apologize if I have hurt anyone's feelings.

............dawg out.

[LifeNRA]

  Finn said:

I think you're wrong. Some of the most joy a child has is anticipating Santa coming and putting out cookies and milk.

Can't imagine depriving my kids of enjoying Christmas the way they did. Let em have fun while they're little....plenty enough time for reality after the age of 8 - 10

Could not have said it better!!! Your child is only young and little once in their and your life! Sooner or later they will figure it out on their own. My daughter is super sharp, she knew after a few years that Santa didn't exist. But we played the game for as long as we could.

A child's life is so short lived, savor the time while you can! Because they grow up sooooooo fast!

[Tominator]

  Ohiobucks said:

Wait a tick....Santa isn't real?!!? :(

:rolleyes:

Have you ever seen God, or Jesus, or the lake of fire, or Satan, or Santa? I'm a firm believer in the first 4 I mentioned, yet I have not personally seen them with my own eyes. I see no harm in letting a child believe in the last one......

Tom's my friend.

[buckee]

I get your point Joe, but at the same time understand and love the smile on a child's face when they get out of bed Christmas morning. There are ways of letting your child know that Santa is Really none other than Mom and Dad's love for their children, than just sitting them down and telling them there is no Santa.

My daughter used to leave "Santa" a cup of cocoa or a glass of milk and cookies or a donut every Christmas eve, before going to bed, even though she knew that it was "Dad" who would drink it up, eat the cookie, and leave a little cotton around the edge of the cup, to look like Santa was there. I've never heard of a child hating their parents for lying to them about Santa Clause ...never:rolleyes:

Don't let your spirituality get so spiritual that you forget how to have fun, and just love your children. You'll lose a lot in the end.

You should be more concerned about Halloween than Santa:p:D

  Quote

...This goes beyond just Santa Claus....it is about a consideration for your wife.

-The love and respect between a husband and wife is ten-fold more important -spiritually and scripturally -than an unnessessary argument between you two ,about Santa Claus...

right on !!

[nativetexan]

I think there are bigger fish to fry here...It's Santa Claus for crying out loud. I would say that the vast majority of us here lived our young lives with this belief, yet somehow we are all fine, and I am not so wrapped up in the word of god that I have to watch every little move I make so as not to end up in the lake of fire. The extent to which the original argument went was really kinda childish on both sides.

Besides, I find it hard to believe that nobody here has never lied to their child, or anyone else for that matter, for any reason at all, good or bad. A lie is a lie according to this thread. Perfection as outlined in our various different "guides" on how we live our lives is not attainable. We are human and all sinners in our own little ways. I can guarantee you that 10 years from now if you could go back and teach the kids differently, the outcome would be the same. Arguing over it is silly, bringing your spouse to tears over it is even sillier. Sometimes not thinking too deep into raising your kids is a good thing. There doesn't need to be a lesson every step they take. It's overwhelming enough being a parent in today's society without having to micro-manage every little tradition, thought, or action in regards to our kids. But that's just me...since i'm entitled.

[johnf]

Let's ask these questions.

What does Santa have to do with the birth of Christ?

Why should Santa be the representation of our saviors birth?

What part of Santa is biblical?

What part of Santa is the truth?

If Santa isn't real, why does God or Jesus have to be?

We decided when our daughter was born that we would celebrate a Christ filled Christmas. Our daughter had no idea who Santa was until she was in kindergarten. She still doesn't understand why parents lie to their kids, but we've told her not to tell her friends the truth. I don't have a good explanation for her.

As for Christmas morning. My kids know that we love them and we, or Nanna and Pa pa or Meemaw and pa or whoever got them a present. They are no less thankful than if some made up man in a suit got it for them.

It's not the truth, it's not real, it's not biblical. That enough reason for me.

[johnf]

Now that I've read all the post let me say this.

My daughter has the most vivid imagination of any child I've ever seen. You don't need Santa to have an imagination or to grow up a happy person.

Kids imagine being in a cave, or being superman, or the lone ranger or whatever. They do that on thier own. That's not the same as grandma saying (and I've heard this) "if you don't believe in Santa, he won't bring you any presents" That's just flat out a lie and wrong in my opinion.

Call it harmless, call it tradition, call it fun or whatever. In the end it's still a lie.

[buckee]

Yeah, but Superman, Batman, Spiderman, the Lone Ranger, etc, etc are all lies too, and we don't mind our kids strapping a cape on and flying around the yard

[johnf]

  buckee said:

Yeah, but Superman, Batman, Spiderman, the Lone Ranger, etc, etc are all lies too, and we don't mind our kids strapping a cape on and flying around the yard

No one tells them they are real.

[nativetexan]

  johnf said:

No one tells them they are real.

That's kind of a crock man. You don't have to tell a child if it is real or not, they believe it is until told differently. To assume that a child doesn't believe because someone hasn't told them is kinda naive don't you think?

Using the "no one tells them they are real" excuse to the man upstairs to justify not telling a lie is some pretty fancy lawyerin'. Keep in mind that lies can be lived, spoken, or thought. There is more lying going on in our day to day lives that we probably don't even realize we are doing correct? Think about it.

Let me ask this..What if one of your child's friends asks if they think Santa is real? They have been told by you to not tell the truth to their friends, therefore, you have set them up to lie. That is, if we assume our children do everything we ask them too when we are not looking...But that's just a little white lie right?

[wyohunter]

let me ask you a question...... do you even remember finding out santa wasnt real?

[texastrophies]

  Quote

She still doesn't understand why parents lie to their kids, but we've told her not to tell her friends the truth. I don't have a good explanation for her.

  nativetexan said:

Let me ask this..What if one of your child's friends asks if they think Santa is real? They have been told by you to not tell the truth to their friends, therefore, you have set them up to lie. That is, if we assume our children do everything we ask them too when we are not looking...But that's just a little white lie right?

Don't lie yourself, but teach your kids to lie. Almost seems hypocritical. :rolleyes:

[nativetexan]

  wyohunter said:

let me ask you a question...... do you even remember finding out santa wasnt real?

I don't, and i'm sure most everyone else here doesn't either. Especially considering that a kid could give a darn about Santa once they start ripping open presents..

But, here is an interesting article on the origins of Santa from both sides, the "terrible lie" theory and the "innocent childhood memory" theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus

[MCH]

Parents who believe that they're not lying to their children therefore they don't carry on the Santa myth are lying to themselves, in my opinion.

There are MANY times that a parent MUST lie to their children.

This past week with my daughter being in the hospital. She asked if she was going to be OK and without blinking, I told her "Yes, honey. You're gonna be fine." In reality? I was scared to death and was actually worried that she might not be OK, but I couldn't tell her that.

When she was about to get blood drawn, I told her, "It's OK baby. It won't hurt that bad." That's a lie, because it hurt like ****.

As a parent there are many times that you must shield your child from the hard truth.

How many times do you see parents saying to their child, "Son, I really think you should give up t-ball. You can't hit, you can't run and you can't throw."

Or

"Honey, the other kids can run faster than you because you're too fat."

[nativetexan]

Bingo. I would be more suspect of a parent who says they don't lie to their children. How about the inevitable mommy and daddy "getting busted" scenario. For those of you with kiddo's, you may well know what I am talking about. What do you tell them then to prevent them from being scarred for life? Not that I really want to know, just a hypothetical..

[Tominator]

  MCH said:

Parents who believe that they're not lying to their children therefore they don't carry on the Santa myth are lying to themselves, in my opinion.

There are MANY times that a parent MUST lie to their children.

This past week with my daughter being in the hospital. She asked if she was going to be OK and without blinking, I told her "Yes, honey. You're gonna be fine." In reality? I was scared to death and was actually worried that she might not be OK, but I couldn't tell her that.

When she was about to get blood drawn, I told her, "It's OK baby. It won't hurt that bad." That's a lie, because it hurt like ****.

As a parent there are many times that you must shield your child from the hard truth.

How many times do you see parents saying to their child, "Son, I really think you should give up t-ball. You can't hit, you can't run and you can't throw."

Or

"Honey, the other kids can run faster than you because you're too fat."

Kevin's my friend too.

[buckee]

  wyohunter said:

let me ask you a question...... do you even remember finding out santa wasnt real?

Nope:D

I figured it out, but still loved the fantasy of some fat guy with a beard, falling down our chimney, into our coal furnace

[BowJoe]

OK, ok, ok! Maybe I should be a little more vague when I post here because some people think I'm a horrible dictator that makes his wife cry all the time and is on the verge of being a wife beater. First of all, she cries at the drop of the hat and thinks adding a soap opera pause to everything she says some how makes it more meaningful. Second, she's 8 months pregnant and her emotions, both good and bad, flow like a 5 rating river. I do compromise on a lot of things and the fact that we're still married is proof of that. Look up the day I got everything off my chest recently and you'll see why. This has nothing to do with whether I want my daughter to have fantasies or not. I have decided to compromise yet again and let my daughter believe what she wishes to without having to sit her down and crush her dreams. I too believed in Santa but that was quickly dashed by my idiot older brother. I still like Santa impersonators and have no qualms about having my daughter's picture taken with them. It's not a matter of whether I want her to believe in Santa. Most kids seem to anyway unless their parents tell them otherwise or a classmate does. When the time comes to answer her question, I won't lie but I won't exactly tell her he's a fake and that Coca-Cola invented his image to sell more soda and that's why his outfit is red and white. I just want her to trust me and know that I'll tell her the truth when it's right for her to know it. I never said I wouldn't lie to my daughter when it's in her best interest but trying to convince her of a lie about Santa isn't something I want to be a part of. I won't tell her he's fake and crush her little heart but my answer will be that he represents the spirit of Christmas and how everyone should give to others and even those you don't know. I'll let her watch my favorite movies like Polar Express, The Grinch That Stole Christmas, A Christmas Carol, A Christmas Story, all of the claymations from the 60's and let's not forget The Santa Claus, 1,2 and 3. I still love those movies and my daughter will grow up watching them with us every season. I will let her think what she wants to when it comes to Santa. What I really want my daughter to believe is in how I want her to act every holiday season. I am going to make a deal with her as soon as she is able to understand what I am saying. Every year, she will have 1 month from the middle of November to the middle of December to donate toys to other children, or money or her time to help others. For every toy, $10 or day she donates to helping others, she'll get one present from her mommy and daddy. She has a month to do it and 1 weeks before Christmas is the ending period. She can still donate to others but it won't count towards presents. I know this will be flexible and I probably won't stick to this to the exact word but I want her to get the idea that giving is what the season is all about and not just receiving. My wife, whom I discussed this with in an open and honest manner so as not to offend her and other members of the forums who shall remain nameless, has agreed with this wholeheartedly. See... I compromised. By the way, aksheephuntress, since I assume you'll say I'm even meaner for making my 8 month pregnant wife cry who also happens to have MS, she cried and was extremely over dramatic when we met. I've made her cry more often than you can imagine but I think it's more due to her setting herself up to be let down with higher than normal expectations of situations than me just being a big meanie. I mean, after all, look who she married.

[stevebeilgard]

  Finn said:

I think you're wrong. Some of the most joy a child has is anticipating Santa coming and putting out cookies and milk.

Can't imagine depriving my kids of enjoying Christmas the way they did. Let em have fun while they're little....plenty enough time for reality after the age of 8 - 10

i agree. let kids be kids. they will have enough of life's harsh reality as time goes on. besides, you grew up thinking there was a santa, and look how well you turned out....

[johnf]

  nativetexan said:

That's kind of a crock man. You don't have to tell a child if it is real or not, they believe it is until told differently. To assume that a child doesn't believe because someone hasn't told them is kinda naive don't you think?

Using the "no one tells them they are real" excuse to the man upstairs to justify not telling a lie is some pretty fancy lawyerin'. Keep in mind that lies can be lived, spoken, or thought. There is more lying going on in our day to day lives that we probably don't even realize we are doing correct? Think about it.

Let me ask this..What if one of your child's friends asks if they think Santa is real? They have been told by you to not tell the truth to their friends, therefore, you have set them up to lie. That is, if we assume our children do everything we ask them too when we are not looking...But that's just a little white lie right?

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Kids know that superman, lone ranger and others are just movies or cartoons and they play and use their imaginations. We don't have to tell them they're not real because they already know. If they ask, you should always tell them the truth. My daughter plays "Hannah Montana" all the time and she's 11. She knows it's Milie Cyrus and it's just tv. She's just playing. What we've told our daughter about Santa is to tell the truth when you are asked. She doesn't believe in Santa and never has. She doesn't go out spouting it to other kids, we've taught her not to. But if asked she does tell them that she doesn't believe in Santa because her family gives her all the presents she needs.

We all day dream about things. How many times have you been in a deer stand and visualized a monster buck coming in? A child has plenty imagination to deal with without parents lying to them.

I don't think it is our, or our children's, place however to make that decision for another parent.

We do our best to avoid the issue around people who "do Santa" as we put it.

[Guest Finn]

  MCH said:

How many times do you see parents saying to their child, "Son, I really think you should give up t-ball. You can't hit, you can't run and you can't throw."

Or

"Honey, the other kids can run faster than you because you're too fat."

yep, tell the kids that and remember to tell the wife she's getting a little chubby and her hair looks like crap.....absolute honesty is the best policy