Agree or disagree??

[wtnhunt]

Example: You are at your dear friend's house and pick up his new semi-automatic pistol. You pull the mag and then start drawing it and messing around, chambering rounds, putting the mag back, etc. You are standing at the foot of the bed and your friend and his girlfriend are laying there watching tv, you fumble the gun and catch it right at bed level, it goes off and kills the girl. You are distraught. Should you be charged with a crime? You didn't intend to fire the weapon (or crash the car) it was an accident. You are sad, she was your friend, too and your best buddies girlfriend (he was your child in the car). Sure, in retrospect you should have put the gun down (buckled your kid up.)

We all know all the rules about gun safety, but up to the time when that gun went off, the guy had not committed a crime, while the parent had, by not buckling up the kid. I bet most people would be more than willing to charge the kid with recklessly shooting the girl, but still have the issues with the seatbelt thing. You need to remember that these charging decisions set policies and precedents which will be applied to fact scenarios you can't even imagine when you make that decision, which is why I said they should be charged, but then you can adjust the disposition.

HB

Think there is a pretty big difference in reckless behaviour and murder. I would venture to say that the charges in a case like that would not be for murder or manslaughter just as I believe that it should not be manslaughter charges for a seatbelt violation that has been discussed in this thread.

[nativetexan]

I see this happening all of the time. Mostly it is some girl yammering away on her cell phone while her kids are bouncing around in the back seat. When I see that, it is a blatent disrespect for the safety of her kids, and the law. BLATENT. I have no sympathy whatsoever for this lady. The law is clear, and the only person allowed to show mercy is the judge. She knew what she failed to do when she put those kids in the car.

Lets look at one simple word since we are all being lawyers right now.

ac·ci·dent: noun

1.an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents. 2.Law. such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought. 3.any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause. 4.chance; fortune; luck: I was there by accident. 5.a fortuitous circumstance, quality, or characteristic: an accident of birth. 6.Philosophy. any entity or event contingent upon the existence of something else. 7.Geology. a surface irregularity, usually on a small scale, the reason for which is not apparent.

Do with it what you wish.

[Hoosierbuck]

What is your definition of "manslaughter"? In most jurisdictions, I believe that it is a charge where you acted recklessly and someone died as a result, without you having the intent to actually kill anyone. In the gun and seatbelt cases, that is exactly what happened.

AKSH-There is not a set disposition for a crime, there is a broad range a C felony is 2-8 years, and if you have no prior record any or all of your sentence can be suspended. Maybe the mom should get 3 years probation and counseling on how to be a better parent. Anybody got a beef with that?

You can not avoid using your prior decisions as benchmark and gauge in your future decisions, and I am talking about applying statutes, not creating them. If you do not have some level of consistency it gets a little fuzzy as to whether you are being just and fair, which really does not depend (in my office anyway) on how good your lawyer is.

HB

[nativetexan]

What if they were wearing seatbelts and still did not survive? This happens everyday.

Then who do we prosecute?

Accidents happen. It's an unfortunate reality.

Let's be realistic...It's a case by case situation. If someone needs to be prosecuted, they should, and they will be.

There's no law stating a parent who wrecks a car and kills their children can be tried for manslaughter. Absolutely not.

Their is no law, but it can surely be a consequence. Again, based on a case by case scenario. For example: A parent who is driving drunk with their kids in the car, crashes, and kills all of the kids can be tried for manslaughter. Its against the law to drive drunk. Its against the law to drive without a seatbelt on. As the driver, the law states EVERYWHERE, you are responsible for all people in your vehicle. If you fail in that responsibility, don't expect to get away with it if you were breaking the law. Not to mention, if you are insured and someone else caused the accident but passengers were killed in your car that were not wearing seat belts, your insurance (or their insurance) will not cover it. Simply because a law was broken, even though the actual accident may not have been your fault. They might cover the vehicle, but any medical costs for the injured not wearing seat belts will more than likely not be covered.

There is however a process you could pursue to direct where your tax dollars go. How many of us are using it?

Exactly.

That's the problem with finger pointing. Those fingers never meet the proper target because everyone is too narrow-minded to see it should be pointing directly at themselves. I'm not saying you personally Hoosier, but those who are always pointing out everyone else's mistakes while overlooking their own. Relevancy?

[The Kid]

I think this is a very distastefull comment. I think they are suffuring enough dont you? To loose a child is just horrible!! I always buckle up my child, but i remeber growing up nobody used seat belts and if somebiody died because of it, it was very sad but no charges were pressed.

ya thats makes no sense to me,, why would you want them to watch that

[The Kid]

What if they were wearing seatbelts and still did not survive? This happens everyday.

Then who do we prosecute?

Accidents happen. It's an unfortunate reality.

There's no law stating a parent who wrecks a car and kills their children can be tried for manslaughter. Absolutely not.

There is however a process you could pursue to direct where your tax dollars go. How many of us are using it?

That's the problem with finger pointing. Those fingers never meet the proper target because everyone is too narrow-minded to see it should be pointing directly at themselves. I'm not saying you personally Hoosier, but those who are always pointing out everyone else's mistakes while overlooking their own.

thanks muggs for trying to explain what i was trying to say

[Norm Sauceman]

If the children had their seat belts on and still died then the parent(s) did most everything they could to insure the safety of the children. By NOT making your children wear seat belts you ARE NOT doing everything you can do to ensure the safety of the kids. Falling from bunk beds?? Please, make them sleep on the floor?

In this situation the responsible party for minor children failed to do: 1) What was required by the law. 2) What most responsible people feel would have been everything humanly possible to protect those children's wellbeing with what was at hand.

We all start out in life as ignorant, un-biased, unprejudiced, and unknowing. It is up to responsible, educated humans to teach morals, humility, understanding, safety, common sense and compassion. I see so many times parent failing in all of these aspects because they feel if they did not have to do it or some kind of craziness in their heads that since folks could not do for themselves and see safety belts DO save more children's lives in accidents than not wearing them is some kind of infringement on "freedom"....please, really, please...give me a break.

What if they were wearing seatbelts and still did not survive? This happens everyday.

Then who do we prosecute?

Accidents happen. It's an unfortunate reality.

There's no law stating a parent who wrecks a car and kills their children can be tried for manslaughter. Absolutely not.

There is however a process you could pursue to direct where your tax dollars go. How many of us are using it?

That's the problem with finger pointing. Those fingers never meet the proper target because everyone is too narrow-minded to see it should be pointing directly at themselves. I'm not saying you personally Hoosier, but those who are always pointing out everyone else's mistakes while overlooking their own.

[Norm Sauceman]

huh?

IT WAS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PARENT OR WHOMEVER IS OPERATING THE VEHICLE TO SEE THAT ALL SAFETY PRECAUTIONS ARE MAINTAINED!!!

In this instance, the PARENT failed to make sure the children were wearing safety belts...THE PARENT! The fault of the incident and failure to follow simple laws was on the parent that was operating the vehicle. Could that be vehicular homicide? Maybe. maybe not. Child endangerment? You bet!

What is your definition of "manslaughter"? In most jurisdictions, I believe that it is a charge where you acted recklessly and someone died as a result, without you having the intent to actually kill anyone. In the gun and seatbelt cases, that is exactly what happened.

AKSH-There is not a set disposition for a crime, there is a broad range a C felony is 2-8 years, and if you have no prior record any or all of your sentence can be suspended. Maybe the mom should get 3 years probation and counseling on how to be a better parent. Anybody got a beef with that?

You can not avoid using your prior decisions as benchmark and gauge in your future decisions, and I am talking about applying statutes, not creating them. If you do not have some level of consistency it gets a little fuzzy as to whether you are being just and fair, which really does not depend (in my office anyway) on how good your lawyer is.

HB

[Norm Sauceman]

The real sadness here is folks for years and years failed to wear seat belts. Why? Who knows? Fact is whether you feel it is an infringement on your "rights" or just don't care, ignorance is bliss and some folks are really blissful when it comes to common sense and either their safety or the safety of others.

[The Kid]

so what if the parent buckles their child in the seatbelt,, and then later the child unbuckles himself,,what then,,is the parent at fault here???? Sending a parent to prison for not buckling his or her child is insane, and ridiculous,,,

[The Kid]

so what if the parent buckles their child in,, and later the child unbuckles him or herself, and they crash and the and the child almost dies,, do we charge that child with attempted suicide,,,NO,,,why because its ridiculous and insane!!!

[arrow32]

I agree that minors, who presumably should not be making major decisions themselves concerning their own wellbeing, should be required to wear appropriate restraints like seatbelts or be in a car seat, at all times.

I also believe that adults should not be required by law to wear a seatbelt. If an adult chooses to take those types of risks with their own lives, so be it.

I agree