aksheephuntress Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 .....This was big news, for us Alaskans to hear....interesting proposal...I hope it works out- -Would be nice if something like this could be implemented for ALL americans, though... http://www.adn.com/politics/story/407821.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 Sure looks like a very socialistic program that would never die once it got started! What happens whent the "surplus" is gone and the people want this program to continue! Remember it is the taxpayer who has already paid to create the "surplus"! Bad idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aksheephuntress Posted May 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2008 ...Yeah, Orlan, I can see your point in a lot of ways... -But...the governor is just trying to figure out the best way to offset the utility crunch for her state...I like this idea, better than the one that was origionally going to be implemented...(proposed by one of the other republicans..)..that of "lump sums" of $500/each distributed next month to every man, woman and child in Alaska...so many families would probably blow the $(especially their children's share) on stupid stuff....like alcohol, or drugs... -I know, it seems like a socialistic program...but- well; the governor is just trying to get some of the massive amount of wealth the state has gotten ,generated by the high oil prices, back to benefit the people...better that ALL Alaksans gets some, then the state just using the extra funds to pump into(or, perhaps, inflate or create)- already existing welfare programs...?? ...Also greatly helps the struggling small business owner, to keep their shops/ offices running...or even open! ...And...helps the commercial fishermen, with their boat fuel costs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted May 17, 2008 Report Share Posted May 17, 2008 I think it's a great idea, for all the same reasons Kathleen mentioned above. It would be better to see them do something like this with the surplus, rather than give it to some silly program, that only affects a minority . I sure could use it to off-set my fuel prices, and then I wouldn't have to pass so much on the the customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJL Posted May 17, 2008 Report Share Posted May 17, 2008 Sure looks like a very socialistic program that would never die once it got started! What happens whent the "surplus" is gone and the people want this program to continue! Remember it is the taxpayer who has already paid to create the "surplus"! Bad idea! 100% dead on. The surplus is the result of over-taxing. The idea of issuing "energy debit-cards" is purely socialistic/communistic and is absurd. I'd rather see them reduce taxation by "$100 per month" and let the people be in charge of their own money. Sarah Palin is smokin hot and a tremendous leader, however, she might want to re-think this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativetexan Posted May 17, 2008 Report Share Posted May 17, 2008 I think the money should be re-directed to fighting crime or updating infrastructure. Crime costs me money. Poor infrastructure costs me money. If you are going to overtax me, I would rather the money go to something that is going to benefit everyone as whole. Hire more police, fix roads, etc. I certainly don't want to see it going to welfare. The last thing some government mooch needs is more money from us. Getting the money back would be nice, but its not a long term solution. Unfortunately people will come to expect it, and when it is gone, there will be huge outcry and everyone will be back where they started...whining...and people that are beneficial to government will start losing jobs because people are narrow minded, and don't think any further than what is in front of them. In a nutshell, this gives people a false standard of living and will overall harm the economy in the long run. Keep the money. Build me a nice, safe place to live and raise my kids. I can't believe that with just the drug problems on the streets nowadays that every spare dime is not channeled into ridding communities of them. Build a prison in the arctic for all I care and send the dealers up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted May 17, 2008 Report Share Posted May 17, 2008 I'd rather see them reduce taxation by "$100 per month" and let the people be in charge of their own money. Now that sounds like a much better plan, and one that would be easier resolved when the surplus was gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 Originally Posted by jjl7913 I'd rather see them reduce taxation by "$100 per month" and let the people be in charge of their own money. Good point, but that ain't happening..the rebate is . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 you guys just don't understand. alaska has a permenant trust fund, created by the drilling of north slope oil and the pipeline. the oil is sold mostly to japan, but it is drilled and sold. this created a fund, paid for by oil. the fund is never touched. the INTEREST on the fund gives every alaska citizen about 1200. bucks a year. so, a family of 5 gets 5000 dollars a year. there are no state taxes, state income tax, sales taxes or any other taxes in alaska. so they cannot repay the taxes spent. most land does not have property tax. (very few cities do) so, jjl is worng. it's not giving back taxes. it's giving interest on taxes paid by end users of oil, not alaskans. so it is a good plan, a viable one, and i'm all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJL Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 Thank you for the info Mr. Beilgard. I was totally unaware of this situation and stand corrected. But, I still question the basic logic for this program. If the State is that involved in oil and energy production and distribution, why don't they just cut the price that the consumers are being charged? There-by helping the residents and reducing the surplus. With less paperwork and management cost. This idea of "energy debit cards" is another way for the State to build resident dependency under the guise of fairness and equality. All of which reeks of Liberal/Socialisim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 Thanks for the information Steve, that kind of changes perspectives a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aksheephuntress Posted May 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 .....Yes...Thank you, SteveB.- I didn't realise that a lot of people in other states were'nt aware of Alaska's Permanant Dividend Trust Fund...I didn't mean to cause a big ordeal ,here...(also...I am not the most well-versed person on all the specifics of the PFD, to be able to carry an educated debate/ conversation of it) -Thankyou for helping explain it...-I did want to just add some additional info on it, though that I feel is worth noting, especially to diffuse the assumption that the concept of the PFD might be a government handout.- -Every Alaskan is a SHAREHOLDER in the PFD program, which was mainly pushed through by our past beloved "Bush Pilot Governor", Jay Hammond, in the late '70's's.... -Yes, the yearly payout to each Alaskan,is from the INTEREST from the PFD STOCKMARKET INVESTMENTS.- The actual amount paid out each year is determined by an average of the previous 5 years of stockmarket investment earnings(interest, not principal)-by the fund corporation ... -so every Alaskan is a stockholder, in actuality....it is not a government handout....-and we have to pay taxes on the payout each year.... -SteveB is right...we do not have state income tax....and all of Fairbanks, and Anchorage do not have any sales tax....-but a lot of the smaller towns do...-here in Seward, it just went up to 7%...( 4% for the City of Seward, and 3% for the Kenai Peninsula Borough...) -I don't know what other land /house taxes are like in other states...(and this is an area I really don't know much about)...but our property taxes personally are around $2,400 a year... -Our governor is concerned with individuals, families, and businesses being eased of the severe energy crunch .....and enabling each rightful shareholder to be able to tap into their money in this immediate time of need...-wouldn't it be a little similiar to any one else borrowing from their 401K, if they really needed/wanted to?? -I'll see if I can round up a little more info on the PFD, so the whole thing can be seen in perspective... -and thanks again, SteveB. for helping explain this!...-I didn't know where to start.... .....I just had a humbling thought...-a lot of you are probably wondering..."why is Kathleen bothering to post any of this in the first place, if it only has to do with Alaska..?" -Well...-I don't know...I just like to share things from up here, for information/conversation sake...-and this particular subject- well- I've always thought it would be nice for all Americans to be able to reap the benefits of the oil proceeds up here...not just Alaskans...-I like see other peoples' perspectives...and the whole oil issue is such a nationwide concern, for us all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aksheephuntress Posted May 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 ....Ok...-Wow!...I have just discovered "Wikepedia"...-now, that was fun! ...-ok...here is some more info I feel will be interesting on the subject...-I did have a couple of concerns on the validity of a few things in this "Wikepedia definition", though...-but- basically this gives a helpful overview... -Who writes all these Wikepedia definitions, anyway? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aksheephuntress Posted May 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 ....Ok, this is even better... http://www.apfc.org/theapfc/faq.cfm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativetexan Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 Wikipedia articles are written by anyone with the ability to write. It's actually a pretty good site, but you have to be really careful and look at the sources before you believe what is written. I knew Alaskans received a dividend but I didn't know all of the particulars, so thanks for posting that. Still though, I kinda believe that this "debit card" isn't really a good idea. So many other things could be looked at to reduce costs for people if government would just take the time to sit down and look at it. The more of these little socialist programs that creep into our everyday lives, the more people become accustomed to it, and the more they will expect in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aksheephuntress Posted May 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Wikipedia articles are written by anyone with the ability to write. It's actually a pretty good site, but you have to be really careful and look at the sources before you believe what is written. I knew Alaskans received a dividend but I didn't know all of the particulars, so thanks for posting that. Still though, I kinda believe that this "debit card" isn't really a good idea. So many other things could be looked at to reduce costs for people if government would just take the time to sit down and look at it. The more of these little socialist programs that creep into our everyday lives, the more people become accustomed to it, and the more they will expect in the long run. ...WoW!...-So..-Maybe even I could write for Wikipedia!??! ...No...Really-....=I understand what you are saying....- and it is really HOW the borrowing of the Interest/surplus is carried out....- not the WHY.... -Yes, the very creation of the cards would entail an ironic extraneous expense ....eating away at the earnings to begin with... -This is probably akin to a lot of Native Corporation Dividend Payout problems....:( ...It's hard to know what to do...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 ironic extraneous There ya go with them big words again. I thought we talked about this ...LOL :D:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 There ya go with them big words again. I thought we talked about this ...LOL :D:p yea, what he said. don't be so cosmigorical... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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