PTSD and War Veterans

[slugshooter]

This isn't intended to be an anti-war thread, more of a thought that just popped in my head. Even though I was in the military, I never went to war or a combat zone, so I have no knowledge of what it would be like trying to readjust back into "normal" life here in the states. I know with some Vietnam veterans, I here of PTSD symptoms, nightmares, jumping when they here a car backfire. My father-in-law doesn't talk about his time in Vietnam even with a Purple Heart and Bronze Star, but I know he doesn't like the sight of blood, he jumps when he hears a loud bang, and he won't go anywhere near a nail salon because of the proprietors. I just read a little bit of a story about soldiers at Ft. Benning back from Iraq having to recover from PTSD with their barracks so close to the firing range and it making it difficult for them to recover. Having lived near Fort Bragg for 13 years and being around the Army all the time, I never remember hearing of large groups there having PTSD, but then again, if you are around it then you would have more knowledge of it. My question or thought is this. I don't remember hearing much about soldiers from WWII coming back with PTSD, maybe they did and they just didn't talk about it. I didn't have anyone in my family that served in WWII and I had an uncle in Vietnam but I only met him once that I can remember and he is dead now. Is the surge in PTSD cases because war is so much tougher on soldiers now, or are they just more willing to come forward and say "Hey, I'm really messed up and need help."? Or, are our soldiers today not as tough as they were in WWII? I can understand that back then, men didn't complain about their problems, and kept everything inside. In a lot of ways, I am like that, preferring not to bother anyone with my problems preferring to deal with it on my own.

So, are all these cases of PTSD warranted,or are our soldiers just not as tough as soldiers 50 years ago? Thoughts, opinions. I just watched "300" for the first time yesterday and having studied the Spartans in college I was amazed at their skill and tenacity. Raised to fight and feel no fear and know only loyalty.

[wtnhunt]

This topic kind of hits home with me Marc and I could probably talk about it for quite some time.

My step father is a suffering now disabled viet nam veteran in rapidly declining health, which in part was due to his combat duty. Remembering what he was, I never thought he would be where he is now. He was exposed to agent orange, jumped from choppers with heavy packs and radios and was implanted with some elite troops very early in the conflict in viet nam. He saw some pretty bad stuff from what I have been told, and he would not ever talk about it to us kids, however his nephew(just a year younger than him) who also served in nam said that his uncle Joe(my stepfather) was the real deal, and that he killed and survived where many died. No doubt he saw a lot of blood, watched buddies die and had to kill to survive and there is no telling how that can later mess up a person.

He has understandably had some issues with ptsd in the past. Growing up that is something that, I will never forget, he did snap once with me and it was not nice. He dealt with his issues, never had psych help or complained about it. He has not ever had any issues with noises bothering him like you mention either, however he is hard of hearing from damage to his ears.

I had a good friend when I lived in Florida that served in the first Iraq conflict, he was kind of screwed up when he came back. In comparison from what I understand what he saw was nothing in relation to what took place in viet nam, however any time someone has to kill or anytime someone sees their buddy die, it obviously has the potential to cause some serious issues.

To your question, I guess you are asking if our soldiers are softer mentally than they were in previous conflicts. I guess that might be possible with more modern conveniences that make life easier, however I think any exploits that the media can make now they will, as compared to the time you are comparing to they likely would not have gotten the same type of blown out of proportion attention. Times are obviously a lot different, and I think that has a lot more to do with how ptsd is being portrayed than people might be willing to accept. Thing to remember here is that anyone who is put in a situation to experience what soldiers see in combat has the potential to have issues with ptsd, the difference now is that more is known about the problems or symptoms with ptsd than was in the past, it was not even a term used until the mid 70's, so it would have been kind of hard for a WWII vet to have complained about it.

[stevebeilgard]

i think all armies for all time has suffered ptsd. it is just now, with radio and television, that folks are talking about it. i've known lots of military who simply don't talk. no one i know from ww2 will say a word. some from vietnam will. let's face it, seeing your friends die in battle will leave a mental image, i don't care who you are. a normal human brain is not capable of dismissing stuff like that, and it will be recalled in nightmares.

15 years ago, i'd have said that our soldiers were not very good and would run at the first shot. just a bunch of wimps. since 1991, i stand corrected. we have the best fighting force in history, filled with brave souls ready to die to protect america. our soldiers are just as tough as throughout our history, and i couldn't be more proud.

[slugshooter]

Yep, my father-in-law was also exposed to Agent Orange and his health has been declining also. You should see the amount of pills he has, it basically fills a bathroom windowsill from end to end. I don't deny the horrors that men have to face in war, and I do agree the media do blow things out of proportion. I personally could not imagine having to replay in my mind daily the awful things that you could see in war.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

My father was part of the D-Day landing in Normandy. He made into the hedgerow country before a round from German artillery went off nearby. He was sent back to England where he spent about 2 months getting patched back up. Then they sent him back into combat. He was with his unit, The Railsplitters, until the end. He never showed any signs of mental problems from it, but he did still carry German shrapnel in his hip and back until the day he died.

My uncle was a Marine and fought in a number of battles in the Pacific. He came back highly decorated, but was really messed up mentally. No doubt he was suffering from PTSD. He went downhill to the point where he was literally a wino living on the streets in Oklahoma City. Nobody in the family knew where he was until he died. My father and another of his brothers went to OKC and made arrangements to have him sent back to our hometown where we buried him in the family cemetery.

[OJR]

Just a couple of comments!

During and after WWII, they called it "shell shocked" when a soldier had some problems. Same thing as PTSD.

I know several people who have PTSD and in some cases, I think they are faking it so they can get a pension and not have to work! I base this on the way that person was before they went to Iraq. They were useless people before they went over there and made the most of milking the system when they returned!

There are however, some who really need help and it is tough to tell which is which!

Overall, the people who are in the military today are some of the greatest people we have ever had to defend us and it is a crying shame the way the politicians use these people so they can blow their own horns! We went to the opening of a new VA clinic here in Lewiston last Friday and Larry Craig was there as a speaker. He was not shy about blowing his horn about getting funding for this clinic. He did do some, but not nearly as much as he claimed. He also has fought several things that could really help the veterans. He used to be for the veteran all the time, but that has not been the case lately. It is going to be real nice to see him get out of office!

[nativetexan]

I think men in history have been much more emotionally tough. Many of those troops were raised by men who lived in tough times during the earlier days of this country. I am sure most of you know of a man in your life (father, grandfather, etc.) that were just tough as nails, and didn't let things like emotion come to the surface in public, and "just do it" wasn't on a shoe commercial, they just did it. Now I am not denying that every single one of those men most certainly had some sort of "mental trauma" from what they saw, lost, or took. I will agree that the media is responsible for bringing to light and embellishing upon all of these different things about society that everyone thinks is "new" and "shocking." When in all actuality, it has been going on since humans were created, and labeled differently as time goes on.

I am also in agreeance that some take advantage of the system. However, this is not new either. "Section 8" comes to mind as a common deference from taking part in combat.

[oldksnarc]

I was 18 when, on my fourth day in-country, RVN, I experienced my first incoming artillery round going off within about 100 feet of me. The ground shook and raised up – the sensation of being frozen in place and unable to move or think was overwhelming. I had heard old-timers and others who had been there before talk about the earth/body/mind/soul shattering experience of your first one. Time and my mind froze in place. I thought to myself, “This isn’t anything like they told me it would be.”

No one, not even those who have been there, can “tell” you what it’s like. There is no way to convey in words enough to explain what it is like to another who has never experienced it. No one, even those who have been there, reacts the same. It took several years for me to not jump at the slightest or startling noise. And my duty wasn’t as bad as that of others. Most saw worse than I did.

It’s not a matter of which generation was tougher and which wasn’t. While there is a distinct difference in the lifestyles and manner of upbringing between those soldiers raised 60-80 years ago, or 50 years ago, or 40 years ago, or 20 or 10 years ago, or now -- a soldier is a soldier. Each reacts and handles their life, and combat experience, differently. Yet, I do believe that warriors from the era of the Spartans and the “300” are different from those of today (meaning modern history – 1700 thru today). Only because that was a totally different time consisting of totally different people, times, values, etc.

During WWI, WWII and Korea PTSD was a by-product of combat duty but, like mentioned, back then it was called combat fatigue or being “shell-shocked.” And, government response was to try and sweep as much of it that they could under the carpet. Ira Hayes, hero of Iwo Jima, suffered from PTSD and died from the effects of it and alcoholism – which was a side effect of PTSD which is a side effect of combat.

However, after Vietnam and all the horror stories and news headlines about returning vets going off the deep-end – Rambo so to speak – the government has had to openly recognize the adverse side-effects of combat – no matter how well-trained a soldier may be it is difficult for one human being (raised in a moral society) to kill another, even if the other is trying to kill/destroy you, without being affected by it. So, from a government standpoint with all of the media exposure, it’s better to get in front of the issue than react to it.

People from every walk of life also experience PTSD in response to calamities in their lives. However, it is usually hidden under the cloak of “stress” which doesn’t carry the stigma attached to PTSD and PTSD being a bigger problem and solely being a soldier’s disease. PTSD is a mental or physical reaction to any traumatic stress in any person’s life. In our society today there is little stigma attached to someone admitting they are stressed and asking for help. There should be no stigma attached to a combat veteran asking similar help for the stress they have experienced. But, the anti-war people will say, “See, we told you so.”

I would never take anything away from any group or era. But, from what I’ve seen (I wasn't there so don't know personally) those in the Pacific campaign had/saw a harder time than those in Europe during WWII. But, again, war is war. I believe those in Vietnam (I was there) had/saw a harder time than those in either Gulf War – 1991 or now. But, again, war is war. Who’s to say who had it worse?

As for the fakers. Each generation has its heroes and those willing to live off the lives of heroes. Every generation or war era has those who are willing to claim duty and hero worship on the backs of those who actually served. Every generation or war era has those who are willing to play the game well enough to claim disability benefits and live the easy life on the backs of those who actually served. While many are in genuine need of benefits and assistance, I believe there are those who claim disability as an entitlement.

So, while there may be differences between the lifestyles and life experiences of yesterday’s soldier and those of today’s soldiers, soldiers are soldiers and warriors are warriors. Today’s soldiers/warriors are no better or worse than yesterday’s. All were called to serve – and served.

On a side note, and again without intending to take away from the valor and glory of the “greatest generation,” Vietnam vets were vilified as baby-killers and war-mongers by anti-war protestors and those deserters who refused to go to war and went to Canada. However, the Great War had its own similar problems. There were anti-war protests in major American cities, draft-dodgers fled the country, and soldiers being called war-mongers and baby-killers were as equally prevalent then as during Vietnam and – more and more – today. The only difference between then and now is the media and government curtailed any anti-American sentiment then. Today, we’re a more open society and more willing to air our dirty laundry.

No one – least of all soldiers – likes war. However, unlike Obama, Clinton and all the other liberals, I’d rather have to fight and kill them there than here. There is no one more anti-war than the soldier/warrior. Yet, they do what they know has to be done.

[slugshooter]

Thank you for that post oldksnarc, and thank you for your service.