2 high fence sinareos. Yes or No?

[LifeNRA]

Don't like either of them, especially the first one. Personally, you wouldn't catch me dead hunting anything behind a fence. I don't care how many acres are in between. Just not my cup of tea.

Ditto!

[HOYTnMUZZYboy]

100% fair chase for me. Only fences i think should be hunted are the ones that keep the cattle or livestock in. I have seen pictures of guys holding the racks of whitetails that could be a moose, and then you read the fine print where they were harvested and it explains it all. I dont think either one of those options are right. IMO. I dont see much "hunting" in that. Just more of a sit and wait for something to come by. Heck i can do that on my deer hunting computer game. I dunno how people can call high fenced operations "hunting".

IMO i think hunting a high fenced "hunting" operation would be like fishing in a stocked pond or lake. You know a big one is gonna come by you just gotta sit there and wait....

.... Just my 2 cents for whatever its worth...

[camocop]

i only hunt public land. i may never shoot a B & C buck but atleast i earn my deer. i do not use guides or shoot penned deer (high fence operations). if you want to be a successful hunter, get in the woods well before the season starts and scout. if you do your homework, you will be successful. good hunters should be determined by hard work not deep pockets.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Again, to everyone who thinks it's so darn easy hunting a high fence ranch, I have to ask "Have you ever tried it?" Do you even know anyone who has personally done it and can give you first hand information?

To help put things into perspective, let me relate a little story about high fences.

I have an acquaintance who lives near Brady, TX and actually raises whitetail deer. He keeps his breeding stock in pens ranging from 2 to 10 acres and sells a few bucks and bred does every year. Several years ago he sold a buck to a man that owned a high fenced ranch. The ranch was "only" 1000 acres and had just been high fenced the previous year. The owner wanted some different genetics brought in, so he purchased this buck, a 1.5 year old 8 point with a 20 inch spread, ear tagged him, and turned him loose inside the high fence. The owner gave explicit instructions to all of his hunters NOT to shoot the ear tagged buck. Well, he didn't have to worry about that, because none of the hunters ever saw the buck that first year.

In fact, the rancher figured the deer had either died, or somehow gotten out of the ranch, but the next fall he put some trail cameras up on his protein feeders and sure enough, there was the ear tagged buck. He would show up almost every night at one of the feeders, but never during the daylight hours.

Anyway, to make a very long story short, this particular buck eventually grew into a true monster. Every year the hunters would hunt this buck relentlessly, and every year he would never show himself during daylight. They finally found him dead, apparently from old age, a couple of summers ago.

Bottom line is that a whitetail deer is plenty smart enough to elude hunters, even inside a high fenced ranch, if it wants to.

[RangerClay]

.

Second, has anyone besides TexasTrophies and me actually been inside a high fenced ranch? I think I'm seeing a lot of uninformed opinions here.

I try to stay open minded but when I see Keith or Allen Warren hunt from blinds over feeders and wait for a trophy buck to get hungry. Then later in show defend Jimmy Houston and cage hunting, it's enough to turn the stomach of an uniformed person like myself.

[wtnhunt]

Again, to everyone who thinks it's so darn easy hunting a high fence ranch, I have to ask "Have you ever tried it?" Do you even know anyone who has personally done it and can give you first hand information?

Have not Mike, might not ever, but I do try to keep an open mind and personally I very clearly see your points. As I said before have nothing against anyone hunting a large acreage high fence.

[Bob LeBlanc]

A fence is a fence, is a fence...

The reasons people put up fences are to keep other people out...and their livestock in.

Put up a fence intended to keep a deer in, and I no longer view it as wildlife...it is livestock. You look at the way these guys 'manage' their deer (herd)...yup...definately livestock.

If the deer are not free to roam...to vacate the country on their whim (not the property manager's)...they are livestock.

Some of them back country bulls and cattle are as wild as any deer...but they are certainly recognized as livestock, aren't they?

As for people with a disability...I don't buy that argument either. Noone has the right to shoot a trophy animal and then be braggart about how good they are, when it is shot inside a pen. What's that?...Not a braggart you say?...Then why the need to shoot a trophy?

Too much emphasis is placed, these days, on the rack on the head, and/or immediate success. There needs to be more emphasis placed on the quality of the hunt and the experience it provides.

I won't shoot a duck on the water (cripples not included)...I don't use dynamite to fish...and I won't shoot livestock.

...just my 2 cents with a nickle's change...

Bob

[wtnhunt]

A fence is a fence, is a fence...

The reasons people put up fences are to keep other people out...and their livestock in.

Put up a fence intended to keep a deer in, and I no longer view it as wildlife...it is livestock. You look at the way these guys 'manage' their deer (herd)...yup...definately livestock.

This it NOT always true at least not exactly how you put it. Perfect example of this not being the case is on lands owned by government or leased by contractors of the government such as ordnance companies who own very large tracts. The one I mentioned previously in this thread has somewhere in the neighborhood of 38 thousand acres. That is a whole lot of land and I will say that the goal of the arsenal with its fence, while it does keep people out, has nothing to do with deer management, however they do allow a small number of people in to hunt their land. I think in those situations the hunters fortunate enough to be allowed to hunt are still very much so hunters and I will be the first to admit that I might actually be a little envious of them, but would certainly not hold anything against them or view the animals they kill as any lesser just because they were fortunate enough to be able to hunt that ground and I was not. If the ground is large enough that the deer or hunter could wander for miles and never see a fence then the fence really is a pretty insignificant factor in my opinion since deer typically only have a core area of a sq mile anyway.

[Bob LeBlanc]

Put up a fence intended to keep a deer in...

'...to keep a deer in...' is the relevant phrase

wtn,

Your reference is intent on keeping people out...dif'rent beasty. (IMHO)

Bob

[wtnhunt]

'...to keep a deer in...' is the relevant phrase

wtn,

Your reference is intent on keeping people out...dif'rent beasty. (IMHO)

Bob

Yeah, I get that Bob, however I took what you say in the bold below as to mean that any deer inside a fence are still deer inside a fence. Do not really see any other way to take it.

A fence is a fence, is a fence...

The reasons people put up fences are to keep other people out...and their livestock in.

Put up a fence intended to keep a deer in, and I no longer view it as wildlife...it is livestock. You look at the way these guys 'manage' their deer (herd)...yup...definately livestock.

If the deer are not free to roam...to vacate the country on their whim (not the property manager's)...they are livestock.

I understand what you are getting at with intent to manage and livestock, and to some degree would not disagree on smaller high fenced hunting operations, I do however disagree that deer that have larger areas to freely roam than what would typically extend well beyond their core areas to be considered as being livestock since the fence in those type situations in all likelihood are not in any way a significant factor.

I guess in a sense if one wanted to play on words here you could look at some states specific tag drawing practices and management efforts and zones and also preclude that some of these zones where only so many hunters are allowed on a fairly large zone that exceeds the deers free ranging core area, that since these deer are in effect being managed by that state's managers that they are also livestock.

If a deer lives inside a fence it never sees, what is the difference between that and an invisible boundary placed by "managers" that it also never sees. Just a little different way of looking at it I guess.

[Bob LeBlanc]

I understand where you are coming from, too, wtn.

But, typically, fences intended to keep people out are not so high, as example, as those that are intent on keeping deer in.

Up here, anyways, a deer will jump a six or eight foot fence, if it cannot find another way, around or under.

Yes, a deer does spend the majority of its life in its core area, but during the pre-, and post, and the actual rut itself, we know that bucks will roam...and roam significantly. High fences stop that deer from getting out...and stop other deer from getting in (someone mentioned about the guy who had to buy breeding stock...move the fence and he wouldn't have to worry about that !)

I understand that some of these ranches are huge...

I understand that the wildlife they contain can and do act as if they are truly wild...

...but...but...but...they're inside a fence !! They are captive !...and no amount of argument will convince me that that amounts to 'fair chase' (in the sincerest form of the word).

What is to be the argument of the next decade...

"Well...it was on a very, very long leash...Not one of those short leashes that some operations use...and he was a MEAN bugger...almost as if he was wild..." ??

(That last bit is said tongue-in-cheek)

To sum it all up..."to each his own"

Bob;)

Bob

[backwoods07]

Like flyerla said a few posts above mine, the actual killing of the animal is only part of the satisfaction. If you think about it, how many hours do all of you put in before an animal is harvested? Scouting, trail cams, hanging stands, prepping the land and planting food plots, scent elimination, and making the shot are all part of harvesting the deer. If I shot a deer that was more or less presented to me, I wouldn't feel as satisfied hanging it on my wall.

I would never look down on someone who did hunt a high fence. To each his own. It's just a matter of preference.