Missilelock Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 I have a question I have been pondering on & could use a couple good oppinions, or maybe pointed to to some scripture. A local woman was heavily involved in meth. After being saved she got off drugs, & really turned her life around.- spoke about her experience to crowds & in church too. As far as I am able to judge my fellow man,(or woman) I would say her relationship with Jesus was genuine. Well, out of the blue,one day she was found hanged. Official cause of death was self inflicted, although some are not so sure. I was raised in a home that believed that if you committed suicide you would not go to heaven. I cannot remember reading scripture to verify that although I have believed it all my life. Any help out there??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aksheephuntress Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 ...To take one's life has to be one of the ultimate sadnesses for not only our families... -but, for our Creator... -but, I do not think that would keep a saved person from entering Heaven... -I find that hard to believe that our precious salvation is that conditional... - We cannot know what is truly in another man's heart...-or, their salvation... -but- I do pray for that woman's soul- -I'm am so sorry for her , and her family.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Think it is a matter of the perception of believing. As Kathleen points out, you cannot truly know what is in another man or womans heart, however I kind of am under the perception that if one has faith and they know and love Jesus, that they would trust him enough not to take their own life no matter how bad things may be or seem. Sadly sometimes people can do these things while under medical care, too many or certain types of prescription drugs can lead to severe depression even suicide and that person may not have known what they were doing. If she was on something for depression, could be a possibility? Think under those circumstances our father is a forgiving father and would be wrong for any man, myself included to try to make assumptions of their fate. Bet preacherman might be able to give some better insight here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningcustomcalls Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 No where in scripture does it say that if person were to commit suicide they are excluded from heaven. I was taught that also as a child, and believe it was a scare tactic to prevent me from even thinking about suicide. Unfortunately it was bad theology! I commend you for asking such a tough question. Salvation comes through faith and repentance, trusting in Christ to save us from our sins. We are saved by God's grace, an undeserved gift from God. We cannot earn it, no matter how good we are, or how hard we try. Since we cannot earn salvation and it is a gift, I believe we cannot loose salvation by our merits either. There are times when a true believer falls into sin and that sin brings very real consequences to there life and may even dishonor the name "Christian", but I personally do not believe there salvation is taken from them. One other aspect to this story, we cannot take lightly is the fact that this person still struggled with sin. Just because we trust Christ, our temptations and sin nature is not completely removed. In fact it may intensify because we become more aware of our choices and we also have an enemy working against us. She may have still struggled with dark emotions that were brought on by the meth abuse or she may have even relapsed and was so ashamed, she thought suicide was the only way out. Another point to bring up, is the hanging is somewhat debatable. Was this really suicide? But once again, it leads back to the fact we live in world filled with sin and evil. Once again, I commend you for asking such a tough question. The only bad question is the one not asked. God Bless, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 This again, is one of those $64,000.00 questions where if you line 10 preachers or pastors up in a line, you are likely to get 10 different answers. And most of them would stand up and say, "I am right, regardless of what you believe or what you say!" Saying that, I will say this........I have heard arguments on both sides. I have heard people say that if a person commits suicide that he is going to die and go to h e l l and then I have heard people say that if a person commits suicide that this doesn't have any effect on his standing with God. And for years, I sat on the fence not really knowing what to believe and where to stand. Not knowing how to deal with people when they came to me with the question, "What happens to a person if they commit suicide?" I, like others, have my own opinion and that is that a person can be saved and commit suicide. I have studied the Bible and have read of those who committed suicide; but where their soul is depends upon their relationship with the Lord. Just like it does with everyone else, when they die. I can be perfectly healty and fall over dead, then my fate is determined by what I have already done with Christ. I have accepted Him, then I will go to heaven. If not, well, then you know. Let me say, that I have never had to deal with this in my ministry. For that I am thankful. But I will say this, after doing some study on the subject. I believe that suicide is a deeper problem. I believe that it is a deeper problem that could be brought on by deeper things, such as depression and many other things. Who knows what was going through her mind and life when this happened to her. Who knows the emotions and feelings and things that she was dealing with. We don't know, neither will we ever know. But there had to be something that brought this on..........and I can guarantee you that they were not thinking with their right mind. It is because of this, that when I see a person that is dealing with personal things and personal issues and it begins to effect them in ways that show signs of depression and such, I encourage them to get some help. Because I would rather go to a doctor or a counselor and swallow some pride..............rather than the alternative. I hope this helps. William, thank you for having confidence in me to ask me to respond. If there is anything else that I can do, please let me know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 What you believe depends on your view of salvation. Some religions or denominations would say that the particular sin of suicide is unforgivable because the person was not alive to be forgiven and will spend an eternity in hlll. If you believe in salvation through grace, and grace alone then wherever that person was with the Lord then there they will remain regardless of their last act on Earth. When Christ died on the cross His blood covered every sin in the world that had ever or would ever be committed. When I or anyone else accepts that gift of grace that He gives us, all our sins are covered. The all-knowing creator of the universe knows everything the you've done, are doing or will ever do, and His blood has covered those sins. Before that woman was ever born God knew her story, all of it. When she accepted Him into her heart, he forgave her EVERY sin, even the last one. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 I was also raised to believe that suicide is an "unforgiveable" sin. Mainly because you can't pray for forgiveness afterwards. That being said, while I'm not 100% positive that the bible doesn't cover suicide, it does cover murder. "Thou shalt not kill". And if you ask my opinion, that includes killing yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetailtrax Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 About 10 years ago, my best friend in the whole world committed suicide. He was suffering from deep depression due mainly to relationship issues. Tim was a very spiritual man, the life of the party, a person that everyone loved and wanted to be around because of his lively spirit and strong family and christian values. He was, in my opinion, a true angel sent from heaven! And yet, the pains of depression got the best of Tim and we lost him. As for your original question, I believe in my heart and have no doubts that Tim is in heaven right now. It just seems completely improbable that a man with such a love for the Lord and such a wonderful spirit would find his resting places anywhere but in heaven......regardless of the cause of death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 This is my own take and this is just me, I don't follow or claim one religion. To me, life is a gift from God, so to intentionally take your own would be intentionally turning away from God's gift. I also think life is intentionally filled with suffering to create a challenge for humans to navigate and either sucessfully find God through this challenge or to not. Suicide again, being an example of someone's inability to handle the challenges of their own life. That all said, I've had my own challenges and pulled through, and I'm sure they're comparitively small compared to what others have to go through. I can't say how I'd be able to handle someone elses troubles so I can't say how suicide is viewed in God's eyes. If he is indeed all forgiving, I do tend to believe even a failed soul still has some chance for redemption. I don't believe it's sentenced to an eternity of flames. Just my 2 cents and I'm just saying how I personally feel- no scriptures or other written words to back up my ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierbuck Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I don't have a degree in divinity or anything, but I have an idea in my head, and a belief in my heart. My idea is that those who commit suicide could go to heaven. The determining thing you can do to get yourself to heaven is to accept Christ. Period. You can't earn your way in by being a very good person. It stands to reason, then that the converse also might have some validity, there is no one thing you can do (except rejecting Christ) to assure your exclusion from heaven. We are all sinners and we all die with sins still left on our plate. Think of an unresolved dispute with someone that causes us to bear ill-will toward them-hatred is murder, just like lusting is adultery. Any sin that you do not sincerely repent of is still on the plate. I bet we all have them. The way we become blameless is not through the act of our own repentance, however, but by Christ washing us clean in the blood of the lamb. Suicide would definitely be a sin left on the plate, but I just don't see that having sway when it comes to our final judgment. Like has been stated before, it's the relationship we have with Christ that trumps. HB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest madabouthuntin Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 In the Bible, It tells us that once we have accepted Christ as our personal Saviour that no man (or woman) can take us from him. I will find and give the exact scripture that gives it all, but knowing that and the fact that there is only 1 unforgivable sin (Rejecting God's gift of his son / salvation), I would have to say if this person was TRUELY Born Again, then she is in Heaven. The belief that you must have ALL of your sins confessed to God and have asked forgiveness (this is after salvation) for them at the time of death or you will go to **** can't be. We are wrapped in a cursed Flesh. It causes us to sin daily. Rememer our flesh fights against our spirit and our spirit against our flesh. If we had to have confessed all sins before death, then if you thought 1 bad thought 1 second before death, then you would die and go to ****. I will give the scriture later. Until then, keep your eyes on Christ!!! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest madabouthuntin Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Ok.... I'm back with the verses. I have made the folowing verses in Red for the simple reason that this is Jesus speaking. John 10:28, 29, 30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one Since we are all men (and women), we can't take ourselves out of God's hands. Once we are Saved by his Grace, we are his for Eternity. That means forever and ever! I hope this has helped. I pray that it has. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnpaul Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Well from what I understand is that the only sin that is not forgiven if you are saved is Blastphemy of the Holy Spirit, total denial.. Although suicide is very sad, and I have had a few friends back in school do it on a pack, it is not the unforgivable sin. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I hope and trust that God's precious grace, covers me during my happiness, and joys, as well as my trials and even my depression if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born4it Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 What you believe depends on your view of salvation. Some religions or denominations would say that the particular sin of suicide is unforgivable because the person was not alive to be forgiven and will spend an eternity in hlll. If you believe in salvation through grace, and grace alone then wherever that person was with the Lord then there they will remain regardless of their last act on Earth. When Christ died on the cross His blood covered every sin in the world that had ever or would ever be committed. When I or anyone else accepts that gift of grace that He gives us, all our sins are covered. The all-knowing creator of the universe knows everything the you've done, are doing or will ever do, and His blood has covered those sins. Before that woman was ever born God knew her story, all of it. When she accepted Him into her heart, he forgave her EVERY sin, even the last one. JMHO I couldn't agree more with John here. You've been given some great advice from others as well. God bless, Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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