Obama vs McCain

[toddyboman]

Ok I do not follow politics very closely......however I this I should now start to try and follow.

By just reading the first page of posts here you guys seem to not like Obama much......however what backing do you guys have for this...

Or what backing do you have for McCain being better or worse...

I have watched some of the DOC not much but some.....lots of stuff I don't know to agree or disagree cause I don't know what the other side has said or not said....

So any helpful info or links you guys have would be great....

Thanks.

[wtnhunt]

The decision for me is pretty clear and quite simple Todd. I see a candidate which better supports my views over the other.

You really need to look at Obama's very short record since he has been a senator and see how you feel about him. There are a lot of sources out there, you can go here to see Obama's record and information on him and go here and read through on McCain and make the best educated decision for yourself.

[Lead Poison]

The reasons for NOT wanting Obama are so obvious.

Barack Hussein Obama believe and supports the following:

1. Obama is without a doubt a Mega Taxing Liberal. Obama sponsored a bill that would tax Americans giving the money to foreigners!!!!

2. Obama supports baby killing (abortion, even late term abortion in which those babies that survived this evil would not be given medical aid)

3. Obama was a member of a truly RACIST church for over 20 years, never once did he disassociate himself with the racist pastor who married Barack and his wife and baptized his children, until the ugly truth came out about the church during the campaign.

4. Obama is anti-gun, anti-gun maker, anti-gun everything and would bring back the Brady bill. Gun rights will suffer like never before if Obama is elected!

5. Obama has said he will cut funding for development of new weapons systems for the military.

6. Obama has admitted he is friends with known, admitted, terrorist William Ayers, who said he feels he didn't do enough when he bomb the Pentagon and NYC police headquarters and to this very day wishes he had done more!

7. There are numerous terrorists, communists, and leaders of rogue nations that have voiced their support for Barack Hussein Obama-there's a reason for this and it isn't good.

8. Obama has opposed drilling for oil.

9. Obama always critizes America and praises socialist countries.

10. Obama wants socialized healthcare. The government can't keep social security afloat, where will they get the money for socialized healthcare?

11. Obama supports giving aid to illegal aliens!

12. With a Democratic congress, Obama will ruin our economy, our healthcare system and our national security!!!

13. There are numerous other reasons I didn't even mention.

[stevebeilgard]

obama is a phony. he's a socialist, says he'll raise your taxes, voted no on every gun bill presented, loves abortions including partial birth.... i could go on & on, but just think of him as the anti christ. he's close enough imho

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

http://www.realtree.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73611

[toddyboman]

McCain Question.......

I am 100% unsure on whom I am going to vote for...... I am trying to read and learn more about each before I make any decision......

There are things I like about McCain and things I do not like.

There are things I like about Obama and things I do not like.

I was reading about McCain the other day and I read that he voted with President Bush 80 or 90% of the time. Can't remember which.....Well I do not think currently the US is in the greatest of shapes. So I am really shocked to hear McCain say he is going to change things when in fact he has agreed with Pres Bush so often. So if McCain gets elected then it seems to me we are going to be in the same predicaments we currently are..... Anyone else see it this way too.....:confused:

[wtnhunt]

I am 100% unsure on whom I am going to vote for...... I am trying to read and learn more about each before I make any decision......

There are things I like about McCain and things I do not like.

There are things I like about Obama and things I do not like.

I was reading about McCain the other day and I read that he voted with President Bush 80 or 90% of the time. Can't remember which.....Well I do not think currently the US is in the greatest of shapes. So I am really shocked to hear McCain say he is going to change things when in fact he has agreed with Pres Bush so often. So if McCain gets elected then it seems to me we are going to be in the same predicaments we currently are..... Anyone else see it this way too.....:confused:

Todd, go to the links I posted in my first reply in this thread, they should answer a lot of questions that you may have.

This message Obama is trying to put out that Bush and McCain are the same is not accurate, look at the voting records for yourself.

[toddyboman]

Todd, go to the links I posted in my first reply in this thread, they should answer a lot of questions that you may have.

This message Obama is trying to put out that Bush and McCain are the same is not accurate, look at the voting records for yourself.

I have read the link a couple times and keep going back to it to compare. I have read what he voted for and against.

I do understand what Obama is trying to say....A number of sites have/do state that McCain agreed with Bush most of the time....

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/669/

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_john_mccain_voted_with.html

[oldksnarc]

I, for one, don't believe Bush has been a bad President. I believe history will look back and have a totally different picture of him than the democrats try to paint.

He has made some tough decisions and has had the political courage to make unpopular decisions. He's even made decisions most other politicians supported until it was convenient for them to disagree.

He's blamed for us being entrenched in the war on terror - when we should have engaged in it 30 years ago. He's wrong for going into Iraq when he freed a people from a murderous, tyrannical dictator who killed his own people (even his own family members) and provided a safe-haven for other terrorists.

He's blamed for the economy and has little control over it. Congress can affect the economy more than the President. We've had a stronger economy with a rising stock market for the better part of 8 years. He inherited a recession from Clinton and turned it around. The stock market recently had a slump for a few months - but it was only correcting itself for growth without foundation. Last quarter's economic growth was 3.3% - not 4% or 5% some would have liked. But, it was growth.

He's blamed for unemployment - but he doesn't make the hiring decisions of businesses. Can you imagine the number of lost jobs if business/corporate taxes are raised by Obama backed by the dems?

He's blamed for the weather yet has absolutely no control over it - nor will the dems. Only One controls the weather. Global warming started back in the 1700 and 1800s at the biginning of the industrial revolution - not in January, 2001.

These are just a few simplistic examples.

So what if McCain has voted with President Bush 80 - 90% of the time? Don't count how many times - look at whether it was the right vote/thing to do at the time. Whether it was a vote for the right reason.

It's convenient to bash President Bush and blame him for all the ills of the country when he has little actual control over any of it. All he can do is make recommendations on policy and budget - it's Congress who makes the actual decisions and votes. Yes, President Bush can veto but if congress really wanted to they could over-ride him.

The only thing Bush had any real control over was whether or not he got favors from an intern in the Oval Office.

[Dawg]

I am 100% unsure on whom I am going to vote for...... I am trying to read and learn more about each before I make any decision......

There are things I like about McCain and things I do not like.

There are things I like about Obama and things I do not like.

I was reading about McCain the other day and I read that he voted with President Bush 80 or 90% of the time. Can't remember which.....Well I do not think currently the US is in the greatest of shapes. So I am really shocked to hear McCain say he is going to change things when in fact he has agreed with Pres Bush so often. So if McCain gets elected then it seems to me we are going to be in the same predicaments we currently are..... Anyone else see it this way too.....:confused:

It might stay the same with McCain, but it will get worse with Obama.

Here's all the proof I need not to vote for ANY democrat......their national symbol is a jacka**!!!

[crazylegz70]

I, for one, don't believe Bush has been a bad President. I believe history will look back and have a totally different picture of him than the democrats try to paint.

The only thing Bush had any real control over was whether or not he got oral sex from an intern in the Oval Office.

And this type of bashing is exactly why I dont like hearing and advice from anyone that is pushing McCain. All I read about is Obama can't do that, Obama is going to tax too much. Lets give him a chance and see. We gave President Bush a try and look what is going on. There is Def something wrong with the tax statement that MOST people make about Barack Obama. Obama will tax HIGH income people more....WHICH HE SHOULD.

And about your "bush is a good president topic" I agree with you partially, whats not to love

Decreased jobs

higher gas prices

poverty rate increasing

The american dollar diving

recession in general

A war we cant afford

threatening countries with "we will retaliate comments"

[wtnhunt]

And this type of bashing is exactly why I dont like hearing and advice from anyone that is pushing McCain. All I read about is Obama can't do that, Obama is going to tax too much. Lets give him a chance and see. We gave President Bush a try and look what is going on. There is Def something wrong with the tax statement that MOST people make about Barack Obama. Obama will tax HIGH income people more....WHICH HE SHOULD.

And about your "bush is a good president topic" I agree with you partially, whats not to love

Decreased jobs

higher gas prices

poverty rate increasing

The american dollar diving

recession in general

A war we cant afford

threatening countries with "we will retaliate comments"

Truth be told the bashing seems in many cases to be aimed more often at Bush and republicans than it is towards Obama, especially given the obvious media bias, but it does in some effect go both ways. Some of the bashing is totally baseless. Interestingly enough a recent poll showed that 51 percent of the people asked believed that the media was biased and attempting to portray Sarah Palin in a negative way.

While I tend to agree with pretty well all of what oldksnarc says here I am going to try my best to remain as neutral as possible, remember this thread is intended to help someone with answers. I really hope that we can get this thread back on topic and keep it there as an informative thread for those who are seeking to better educate themselves, so lets try and keep on topic here.

The topic is McCain and Obama, not Bush and Obama. McCain is not George Bush, just because they have voted similarly in the past year does not mean they have the exact same ideas nor does it indicate what type of leader John McCain will be or the direction he will take this country in.

As far as the idea of giving someone a chance, that could be said for any candidate. Maybe I should run, think anyone would give me a chance just because I think I know how we need to change our government?

[Hoosierbuck]

Jeeze o pete.

Crazylegs-you just ignore solid facts and references. We can not afford to give the guy a chance. It's not like we can just ask him to go away if we decide it's not working out. Irreparable damage will be done before he is out of office.

About your tax feelings- high income people bear an unbelievably disproportionate tax burden already. Think of it as a "Success penalty." Bush's tax cuts were, as a percentage, lower for the higher income people-ensuring they continue to bear a disproportionately high tax burden, but even a smaller percentage of a large number seems like a ton of cash to regular folks like me, and guys in tough spots like you. Keep in mind, though, that for you, based on your information from another post, a 10-12% tax break (a large percentage by any measure) doesn't amount to very many dollars at all, while 2% to a wealthy person is thousands or hundreds of thousands. How much would Obama have to cut your taxes to make life easy for you? 100% would still only be less than $60/month for you, right? How is that going to make everything better? It might help, a little, but that won't exactly have you living high on the hog, bud. Look at McCain's plans in the links. Why not give him a chance, he is NOT W.

Exactly how much burden are you going to heap onto the Democrat controlled Congress for your shopping list of economic woes? Where are they? They took a five week break when you needed them most. Where is the legislation from the Dems to fix these problems that Bush vetoed to wreck the economy? There wasn't any! They have failed you! By your logic, you gave them a chance, so now it's time to vote all them out and put in other guys.

Decreased jobs thanks in part to NAFTA, a gift from Bill Clinton.

Gas prices rising...due to bullying by foreign powers and our own reserves being off limits due to the Democrat controlled Congress.

A war we can not afford...to lose.

Standing up to bullying foreign powers.

Come on, man, you are smarter than to fall for the whole Democrat party line... If Obama had a parrot is would jsut keep chanting "Change" and "McCain is Bush, AWWWK!" Sounds like the media, doesn't it?

HB

[Hoosierbuck]

Now.. back to the OP...I will tell you about two issues, and my opinions on them.

1) Guns. I like 'em. Obama has voted against gun rights consistently in Illinois and US Senate. That in itself says something, he takes a stand against gun rights when for almost everything else he is merely, "present." His view on guns is shaped by the Democrat party line. Pelosi, Reid, et. al. Not good for us. This is a reflection in part of his view of the Constitution. I believe it means what is says, and should be interpreted as such, and based on the intent of the men that wrote it. This is called strict construction. (I went to law school for that??) Obama believes it's more of a guideline, really, and needs to be "changed" from time to time, you know, updated to keep it hip and fresh. I don't give a damn if liberty and freedom from unwarranted government intrusion are not popular any more, I still want those things. (Is this the "change" he is so enthusiastic about, I wonder?) He will put Judges (Federal judges never get voted out, once appointed they are there until they quit or die) on benches that will reflect his views of the Constitution and wreak havoc on us for decades, perhaps.

2) Abortion. Save the baby humans. I have kids. I like them. I like other people's kids, even the bratty ones don't deserve to have been killed before they were hatched. Obama favors a (euphemisism coming) "woman's right to choose." SO DO I! She should be able to choose whether or not she has sex. I will put anyone in prison who denies her that choice, 20-50 for rape. She should be able to choose whether or not she uses contraception. If she botches those two choices, and ends up pregnant when she does not want to be, then I part ways with Obama. He says go ahead and kill it! (Not only that, but with his socialized medicine plan, he will make me help pay for it!) I say, if being pregnant isn't going to kill her, then the baby's RIGHT to be left alone and left alive trumps her "choice."

There, that's two issues I have with Obama; and MCain is a strict constructionist, and wants to save baby humans.

HB

[crazylegz70]

I am not going to continue to argue about this...

You have your beliefs and I have mine....This really has me Pi##### enough to leave these forums....

[wtnhunt]

I am not going to continue to argue about this...

You have your beliefs and I have mine....This really has me Pi##### enough to leave these forums....

We do not all always agree on everything, this is a discussion in a political forum Lance, really no reason to leave and sorry you feel that way.

From what I have seen of the current discussions, the chances of you changing another opinion on here are probably about as likely as them changing yours, probably not very likely to happen.

The current topics are really pretty tame in comparison to some from the past. Several here have said that they understand your situation and tried to give insight and some have even given some suggestions to you, what you choose to do with that is totally up to you.

Try to remember that this is a political forum, do not take these discussions personal.

[Hoosierbuck]

You have asked for opinions and facts, don't get bent out of shape when they are delivered if they don't match up with what you were hoping for. If it bothers you not to have more people agree with you, either ask a different audience or just talk hunting in another of the many rooms here. If you want an open discussion, then by all means continue posting in here, but I was under the impression you were amenable to persuasion and even soliciting information and opinion.

HB

[Dawg]

We do not all always agree on everything, this is a discussion in a political forum Lance, really no reason to leave and sorry you feel that way.

From what I have seen of the current discussions, the chances of you changing another opinion on here are probably about as likely as them changing yours, probably not very likely to happen.

The current topics are really pretty tame in comparison to some from the past. Several here have said that they understand your situation and tried to give insight and some have even given some suggestions to you, what you choose to do with that is totally up to you.

Try to remember that this is a political forum, do not take these discussions personal.

Yea............

You have asked for opinions and facts, don't get bent out of shape when they are delivered if they don't match up with what you were hoping for. If it bothers you not to have more people agree with you, either ask a different audience or just talk hunting in another of the many rooms here. If you want an open discussion, then by all means continue posting in here, but I was under the impression you were amenable to persuasion and even soliciting information and opinion.

HB

What he said..............

Trust me partner, you ain't gonna solve nothing by runnin' off. I've had heated discussions with folk in the religion room.......did it get me "riled up"...of course, did it upset me... a little, did I change the minds of the one's debating me....I doubt it.

All you can do is speak your peace and leave it at that!

P.S. McCain for President!:D

[toddyboman]

Maybe I should run, think anyone would give me a chance just because I think I know how we need to change our government?

WTNHUNT FOR PRESIDENT!!:D:D

[backwoods07]

ALL very valid points. My vote will be Republican, not so much because I like McCain, but because I dislike Obama so much, even though my vote won't matter. Illinois has been a Democratic state since the beginning of time, especially when our own senator is the presidential candidate.

(my political science major says I should have more to say, but it's really not that interesting)

[OUTSIDER]

What is considered high income?? And why should you tax someone more who worked hard to get a degree and a good high paying job?? I view that as discrimination, sorry but I worked hard in college, taking loans, going in the military, saving money, working long hours, etc. to get a good job, sorry I will make a high amount of money within 10 years, but why tax me more?? Do I not deserve to be compensated for what I have suffered and sacrificed for so long? (just means for discussion, no ill manners).

[nativetexan]

Just about every board I have visited in recent months has some sort of topic on the elections. No matter the subject of the board. The one thing that astounds me so much is the one person who takes their ball and goes home. They ask for help in making a decision, then when things turn out the way they have in this thread, the truth comes out. In fact, their mind was already made up a long time ago but somehow they feel unsure and are hoping someone will back them and justify their decision. That, being straight to the point, is insecure and uneducated. Then when they stomp away mad, shows immaturity.

Politics is a tough topic. To me, it is tougher than any mental or physical aspect of the most extreme contact sport. If it is to be discussed, then we must have thicker skins in order to sort out the task of decision making.

From the responses I have seen here, the majority is still understandably peeved from the Clinton years. I am included. Clinton was untrustworthy. A basic leadership trait that a president must have. I feel the same about Obama and his constituents. They have resorted to dirty tactics, lies, smear campaigns, and just an overall nastiness as usual to politics. These are not the type of people that I want electing people who make major decisions for the future of this country. Sorry, but that is the utmost in basics about who is backing Obama. Obama couldn't change them if he wanted to, and he doesn't anyway. In the end though, everyone has a right to be the way they are, even if I don't like it. I would hope though that some level of maturity and seriousness would be given to politics so the issues and the facts were not blindsided by such tabloidism as Sara Palin's pregnant teenage daughter.

As far as this board goes it is so obvious, just in title alone, that you can be assured how most people are going to vote. This is a hunting board. Guns and hunting are the biggest topics. To come on here and say "give him a chance" is going to get a rise from those of us who know how a democrat controlled government is going to vote when it comes to one of the most important things people on this board are passionate about.

Vote for Obama, vote away your rights. Especially the ones that give basic reason for this board to even exist. That is not me trying to sway anyone. That is a BASIC fact. Basically.

[nativetexan]

What is considered high income?? And why should you tax someone more who worked hard to get a degree and a good high paying job?? I view that as discrimination, sorry but I worked hard in college, taking loans, going in the military, saving money, working long hours, etc. to get a good job, sorry I will make a high amount of money within 10 years, but why tax me more?? Do I not deserve to be compensated for what I have suffered and sacrificed for so long? (just means for discussion, no ill manners).

No, it is not discrimination. You suffered and sacrificed for your own personal reasons to achieve the level in which you wanted to live. Nobody told you to do it, nobody made you do it. There is no reason to apologize for making money either. This is the land of opportunity. This country gives you the freedom to do so, don't expect to be rewarded also. Your personal gain, your ability to be an upstanding citizen, taking the time to defend your country and those freedoms, and proving that this system works and is the greatest country in the world is your reward. If that is not enough reward, then I don't know what else to tell you.

Taxes are your bill. If you think they are unfair, then use the process and the freedoms granted to you to speak your piece and vote accordingly.

If it means anything, I am glad you have done these things and I respect you for it. I honestly wish more people would follow your path. Don't tarnish it with some sort of feeling of entitlement. To me, it puts you back down in a class of people who sit on their butts waiting for a handout from the government just for living here.

One last thing. Someone, somewhere is giving or has given you your ability to thrive in this country. Even if it was you. But remember, that many more came before you, and many more will come after you. It really kinda irks me that materialism, selfishness, and entitlement have taken first chair over the sacrifices made to keep this country alive. I guess it's a catch 22 in a sense. Please don't fall into this trap of entitlement. If this is not what you were looking for, please refer to paragraph 2.

[OUTSIDER]

Vote McCain!!!

[Bowhntr]

I am 100% unsure on whom I am going to vote for...... I am trying to read and learn more about each before I make any decision......

There are things I like about McCain and things I do not like.

There are things I like about Obama and things I do not like.

I was reading about McCain the other day and I read that he voted with President Bush 80 or 90% of the time. Can't remember which.....Well I do not think currently the US is in the greatest of shapes. So I am really shocked to hear McCain say he is going to change things when in fact he has agreed with Pres Bush so often. So if McCain gets elected then it seems to me we are going to be in the same predicaments we currently are..... Anyone else see it this way too.....:confused:

A truth that the mainstream media continues to leave out is that Obama has voted with Pelosi/Reid and the Democrats NINETY SEVEN PERCENT of the time. They are the congressional leaders of a congress that has the LOWEST APPROVAL rating in history. Not exactly what I would call an agent of change or an improvement.