Guest Gunsmith Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Hi. I decided to hunt with a muzzleloader this coming deer season. I just purchased a TC Triumph in Realtree camo of course, a Nikon 250 3-9X muzzleloader scope in Realtree camo and have the camo TC Gorilla Warne style mount and rings coming from Midway. I'll be real careful not to set it down in the woods or I might lose it. Today I purchased Pyrodex 50/50 pellets, 250 grain TC Shockwave sabot bullets and CCI and Winchester 207 primers. When I get this all together, Should I start at 100 grains before trying 150 grains of Pyrodex? Has anyone had any experience with the Triumph, and if so, what does yours shoot best? The scope is supposedly set up for 250 grain sabots with 150 grains of powder and has aiming points out to 250 yards. Is the Triumph really capable of hunting accuracy out to 250 yards? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Welcome to the forums. You may want to read through this http://www.realtree.com/bluelk/. I shoot a black diamond, my optimal load ended up being 120 grains of pyrodex with the 240 grain tc xtp mags I was using. I started out at 100 grains and worked up in 5 grain increments with each three shot group. Guess that is a downside to using the preformed pellets. Would think in the hands of a capable shooter a modernt inline ml is very capable of effectively killing deer out to 250 and possibly a bit further. My max distance with my setup would be under 200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunsmith Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 New Muzzleloader Shooter Needs Help wtnhunt, thanks for the link, that is great info. Bluelk doesn't like the pellets because he likes to work in 5 grain increments. With the 50 grain and 30 grain pellets I have, I can go up in 10 grain increments from 100 to 150 grains. Would that be too coarse an increment to be able to zero in on an accurate load. I know in centerfire rifles .1 grain can be significant, but we're talking 60 grain loads and velocities of 3100 fps+. I have a pound of Pyrodex, but I'm not confident in my ability to get an accurate weight with a measure. Loading for my 6 PPC at the matches, I have to really watch my technique on the measure to get accurate loads and that is using a very precice micrometer adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailmanmark Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 TC Triumph Good choice. With the 250 shockwaves, my Triumph likes 100g of Triple 7(pellets) with Remington clean bore primers. You get less of a crud ring with these primers. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Your setup is almost exactly the same as my setup. I have an Encore and shoot 100 gr. of Pyrodex using a TC Shockwave. I got MOA results at 100 yards with 100 grs. so I never even tried 150 grs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billkay Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Since you have the Nikon BDC scope you probably ought to try the 250/150 load first to see if it will work for you. It may, or it may not. As far as the scope markings, they will work if that is the combination that shoots in your gun. As far as shooting to 250 yards, I would say the bullet powder combo is capable. The biggest factor involved with a shot that far however is the shooter, not the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunsmith Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 New Muzzleloader Shooter Needs Help Took the Triumph to the range today to just get it sighted in. The wind was blowing about 10 mph gusts to 15, but I coudn't wait to hear it go bang. Started with 100 gr of Pyrodex pellets with the 250 gr Shockwave. Started at 25 yards and first shot was 4" high and 1" left and I ran the crosshairs over to the bullet hole and the next shot hit 6 o'clock on the X-ring, came up and put one 12 o'clock on the X-ring. Moved the target to the 100 yard range and fired 2 shots. 1 1/4" two shot group in the 10 ring, came up 2 clicks and right two clicks and the last shot was in the X-ring. I cleaned after each shot. Overall, I am quite pleased with the Triumph. I'll wait for better conditions and try going up in 10 grain increments from 100 gr and see if it will do better. The bubbas at the range were amazed at a muzzleloader shooting that well. Most of the locals get 3 shots out of 5 on a pie plate at 100 yards and they're good to go deer hunting with their 30-06's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailmanmark Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 For grouping, try running a spit patch between shots to see if you can tighten up the groups. Let us know how it works for you. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunsmith Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 New Muzzleloader Shooter Needs Help The very comprehensive CD that came with the Triumph says to clean with wet and dry patches after every shot, so that is what I have been doing. It sure slows the process, but as a 67 year old retired guy, I guess I can afford the time. It seems that this clean and dry condition is what I will be hunting with so I will continue with it until I determine the best load and establish an accuracy baseline, then I'll try spit patches and no cleaning and determine what degradation in accuracy if any will occur. I worked the annual open sight-in day at my gun club yesterday and talking to some of the more experienced muzzleloader shooters, they recommended Triple 7 powder as opposed to the Pyrodex I'm currently using. If I work up a load with Pyrodex, is it pretty much just switch to the same load with Triple 7, or is it a whole new load workup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Some will not agree, but seems to me that some guns will perform better with a slightly fouled barrel. That is the case for my black diamond. First shot after a good cleaning ALWAYS results in poi being higher in my setup. Tightest shots are those after the first shot, typically shots 2 through ....? so long as a spit patch dry patch are run through will yield the best accuracy in my experience, usually have touching 3 shot groups at 100 yards. When switching powders my guess would be that it would be best not to assume that you are going to have the same accuracy from one powder to another in same charges. Might not hurt to try where you were at and see how it does, but would probably be best to work up the loads. That is part of the fun of ml'ing in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowtechTurkeyHunter Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Triple 7 is a cleaner powder then Pyrodex no doubt about it ... the other thing is that hasn't been mentioned is that you need to break in your barrell and 10 shots wont get it done it takes a few more just need to shoot it more often to "season" the barrell. Your off to a great start though and you are asking all the right questions. To answer your 250 yard question with a Triumph ... yes you can achieve that mark with your triumph but it will take you shooting the 150 gr pellets. Dont be afraid to mix and match your 50 gr and your 30gr I shoot 230 gr of powder and I can hit 20 yard plates all day long but I also shoot a lot. Keep doing the routine you are with your patches between shots thats the most important thing with a new gun. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKYhunter Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Triple 7 is a cleaner powder then Pyrodex no doubt about it ... the other thing is that hasn't been mentioned is that you need to break in your barrell and 10 shots wont get it done it takes a few more just need to shoot it more often to "season" the barrell. Your off to a great start though and you are asking all the right questions. To answer your 250 yard question with a Triumph ... yes you can achieve that mark with your triumph but it will take you shooting the 150 gr pellets. Dont be afraid to mix and match your 50 gr and your 30gr I shoot 230 gr of powder and I can hit 20 yard plates all day long but I also shoot a lot. Keep doing the routine you are with your patches between shots thats the most important thing with a new gun. Steve Please do not shoot 230 grains of powder in a muzzle loader as this would be very dangerous! Most manufactures list 150 as the max and some powder manufactures list 100 grains as max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunsmith Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 New Muzzleloader Shooter Needs Help Murphy was an optimist! Went to the range yesterday with my new Triumph and tried going from 100 gr to 150 gr in 10 gr increments using combinations of 50 and 30 gr Pyrodex pellets. Fired two shots with each load to see if anything looked good. The first two shots at 100 gr were slightly under an inch. Progressing up, each two shot group grew larger, even while cleaning between shots. I scratched my head and tried a 5 shot group with 100 gr and ended up with three clustered in about an inch and two out two and three inches to the left. I did a field cleaning and brought the gun back to the shop for a thorough cleaning. I removed the speed breech and soaked it in Butch's black powder solven while I thoroughly cleaned the bore and breech thread area and treated the barrel with TC Bore Butter. When I inspected the speed breech it has a larger diameter hole forward of the primer and a very small hole just aft of the spherical combustion chamber. The small hole was very constricted with carbon. I cleaned all the residue from the entire flash hole and reassembled everyting using the prescribed anti-sieze grease. Could the restricted flash hole be the cause of the erratic grouping? Would Triple 7 and Remington Cleanbore primers cut down on the carbon buildup in the flash hole? I think I'll drop back and try Bluelk's procedure of starting at 75 gr and working up in 5 gr increments using Triple 7 loose powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grady269 Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 I posted a similar thread to this not having read yours, but I have found the same thing you have. I think the 150g powder load is more Hype than Hunt. My Encore shoots great with 2x50g pyrodex pellets=100g behind a Barnes MZ Expander 250g. Everytime I have pressed it over 100g of powder my groups open up. PS: not a big fan of shockwaves, in my experience they are "fragile" , my2c, some people love em'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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