First and last post on politics

[fly]

I've read enough on the politics forum to know this is not a thread where differing opinions are welcomed.

However since a lot of people are wondering how Obama could have won I'll present you with this:

I'm not a youth, I'm 37 years old. I'm a white male who supports the NRA. I love to hunt. Ronald Reagan is my hero and I have a great deal of respect and admiration for McCain. I very upset with some of the decisions my states Democratic Governor has made and will not vote to keep him in office. I'm also pro-life and have served our country in the US Army National Guard for 8 years. I own a 300 Rem. ultra mag and I've voted for a republican president every year except this one. So why did I vote for Obama?

I researched all the smear campaigns against Obama and they don't hold up as far as I'm conerned. In the past I've voted republican because of the abortion issue. Well, after 8 years of George W. abortions are still legal. I will not vote for a candidate based on one issue any more. McCain is a fine man, but I disagree with his plan to save our economy. I'm not sure what to do regarding foreign policy. The right thing would have never went to war with Iraq. McCain doesn't talk about that much, whereas Obama has been against it all along. Sorry Palin supporters, but Sarah might be a great mom, hunter, and person, but not a potential president. I lost respect for McCain when he picked her. I saw it as a vote earning move, not a best candidate to serve our country move.

Everyone at the office yesterday was saying well we know who you voted for today. A lot of jaws dropped when I told them.

Anyway, if Obama could gain my support, it's not difficult to see how he won.

[nativetexan]

Enjoy our fully liberal controlled government....

[Gator]

Got any guns you wanna get rid of?

[wtnhunt]

On the comment about differing opinions not being welcomed, I think with anything in regards to politics and or religion and issues around them there is a tendency for feelings to be strongly for or against, I do not think that means that differing opinions are necessarily not welcomed. Actually debate is not debate without two sides and would be somewhat boring if everyone agreed on everything.

You are certainly entitled your opinion flyerla and I for one will never fault someone for making a decision that they researched the true facts and that they felt was truly the right decision for their situation or in the best interest.

I am however kind of curious how so many who have voted for Obama can overlook his record on issues such as guns and abortion.

[Loomis1228]

Flyerla,

I too very much respect your opinion and the homework that you did on Obama. But I too feel like you were missing a few things. According to polling, McCain did not simply pick Palin to gain the female/Hillary votes. Palin was picked because, at the time, she was a governor in Alaska that was known to break the status quo of big government and do what was right for the citizens of her state. She too was a "maverick." I was excited that a woman was picked as a VP running mate. It broke a glass ceiling that I can tell my little girl about when she gets older.

Abortion has been a subject that I was a little wishy-washy on. I was more of a moderate in that area until the day my wife came to me and told me she was pregnant. I wanted nothing more (and I mean NOTHING more) in this life than the birth of a child. It completely changed my view on abortion and turned me into a pro-life supporter and an anti-stem-cell proponent.

The whole George W. Bush thing sometimes blows my mind. I often think that people who watch the network news and read the local and national papers are misinformed about a lot of things. W has done a good job at keeping this country safe from further terrorist attacks. And yes, I do believe that there are a lot of dangerous and whacko people out there that want to hurt us because of our freedoms and liberties. Contrary to what the media will say, W had enough information in order to attack Iraq. I have talked to people who have served multiple tours in Iraq that tell me that it is a BAD place and they believe in operation Iraqi Freedom. A lot of focus has been shifted from Iraq because there is not a lot going on. I wonder why the media doesn't report this. I guess it's because a lot of the insurgents have been driven out, or even killed. We all can thank our brave military.

People will say that we should have been in Afghanistan--take a look and see where we are. They are there. Our military is continually searching and gathering confidential information about Bin Laden. Do we all think that this information is just broadcast during the evening news? I would hope not!

I do hope that our country will grow as a nation under Obama. I sincerely do. But my personal freedoms and liberties, I feel, are going to be strained under this new president. I feel that being homeless and on welfare is going to be the new cool thing to do. I feel that leaving a war zone that is not secure will hurt our homeland security and I feel that my personal wealth that I and generations of my family worked hard for is going to be spread around faster than a stick of butter.

I hope that I'm wrong and I hope that things get better before they get worse.

[davetucker]

There are some great facts that all have shared in this thread!!Loomis hit it on the nail imho!!!(and everyone is entitled to one)!!I will not bash your opinion!!But i to agree with loomis!!My family has worked hard to build our family buisness!! www.reed-reed.com !!I don't want to continue to work hard for someone thats a lazy drug addicted looser!!I believe the terrorism ties obama has and hate to think that he is going to take my ONLY prized hobby i have,hunting and shooting!!Thats just my 2cents!!

[DocMort]

If they want my guns they can have them, that is if they can outshoot me. If Hussein has ties to terrorist which has been proven I do believe that one day when we are attacked as Biden says we will be this country will not only mutiny but they will take back control that is so rightly the peoples.

[wtnhunt]

If they want my guns they can have them, that is if they can outshoot me.

It has been no secret that the UN wants to disarm the US. Lets hope someone in our government will have a lick of sense. Obama does want to cut our national defenses. Lot of what ifs to consider, lets all hope that it never comes down to a point in this country that we have to deal with the government attempting to disarm us, that would be a very bad situation.

[pendog]

Fly i too have been upset with the seeming lack of repeal of abortion, however did Buch put in several justices that have helped our cause? Yes he did. Will Obama do the same No he won't. We have put ourselves back MANY years because of this.

I will continue to vote righteousness not vote for whomever gets me results. I........ I.......will stand before God and answer to things, i want to go knowing i didn't vote for my money instead i voted for those who could not vote.

And since i am flesh, i voted for my guns! my country! my future!

[morley]

One of the best part of being an American is we can all have a voice and as long as you vote I'll glady listen but than you'll have to listen to me. I personally think overtime Obama will slighty start to impliment his left winged agenda and with a democrat majority we can't stop it. That's just my two cents, and thanks for taking part in our wonderful democratic process! We can do it again in two years. Maybe than the other side will be ready for change, I'll be clinging to my guns and God!

[LifeNRA]

Sorry Palin supporters, but Sarah might be a great mom, hunter, and person, but not a potential president.

I respect your opinion, except for this comment. obo only has 18 months of experience under his belt. Palin has been running the state of Alaska, big difference here! Pretty sure she has more political experience than obo!

Edited November 6, 2008 by LifeNRA

[fly]

I really took a big chance (or at least I thought I was) with this post. What I anticipated in reply was flat out meaness to threats. However, no one posted such a reply. I'm really glad because I like it here on the forums and was hoping someone wouldn't say something that prohibited my continued discussions here.

Perhaps many of you don't care, but for those who might, I respect your opinions as well.

[crazylegz70]

I appreciate your post flyerla simply because you explained what your opinion was and didnt blow up about the responses like I did. I def did the opposite thing and took all of the responses as a attack on me. (BTW, not a good thing to do when you are surrounded by good people.) No matter what your choice was, you seem like a respectable guy and I can appreciate that.

[GWSmith]

...No matter what your choice was, you seem like a respectable guy and I can appreciate that.

I agree with that statement above...

I may not agree with your choices or reasoning for them...but you have every right to your opinion.

As I do...

I did not base my Vote on the current status of the Abortion issue, or the Economic situation this country is/was/and will be for quite some time..in, or the "Smear Campaigns" waged by Both candidates election committees.

Neither candidate had any better chance than any other previous candidates in solving the first two issues. In relation to the last issue stated above...I did not listen to the barrage of mudslinging. I became so completely disatisfied having to listen to that crap in the past I learned to look past it long ago.

This was not a "Fashion Show" election for me. I mean to say that it was not based on how superior one candidate looked in the media than the other.

I have not trusted in the media for quite some time. I learned long ago not to place my trust in the commercialism of what the public gets to see to base my opinion. I did learn however that with my rights as an American I can research the previous voting records of any member in politics.

I like you based my Vote on a personal opinion formed from research of the issues that concern me and my family.

The lifestyle we've become used to and what in our lifestyle we would like to have continue...and the candidate that we both considered would be the best choice to have the majority of those personal concerns addressed properly..based on thier previous voting record.

I became emotionally involved, when considering the issues, enough to do the research.

Then became un-emotional and looked at what thier track record was. It is always the best indicator of future direction while in office. They may not be able to accomplish much of what they set out to do...but they will try to stick to thier stated path for the most part.

Our individual opinions are very important...they get us involved enough to do something about what we care for in our lives.

There is only one thing I feel is more important than our individual opinions...

Those are the facts of what has been done as a matter of public record.

Here is all I will say about the "Race" issue and how much of an influence that played:rolleyes:

Thier "Saviour" does not have the power of God...but he does have a "Public Record" of his actions which was not the concern for most of them. Do they have any idea how "Racist" that makes them look? Do they care more about the color of a persons skin than thier personal voting testimony in public record?

When so many others before them fought an honorable fight against "Stupidity" and to tear down the walls and look past the color of a persons skin and see the actions, integrity, and love of thier families and this country...

They became what they fought so hard to overcome...."RACIST".

Edited November 8, 2008 by GWSmith

[slugshooter]

flyerla,

I have been around these forums for 5 years now I think. And I can tell you, there are some really great people on here, and some not so great, but do not worry about responses to political beliefs in here, because it is all how you present them to the other members.

I took my licks on here 4 years ago, and honestly, I think a lot of it was me being the first one to really voice an opposing opinion (that I know of) or forcefully support another candidate because I lost my taste for George W. after voting for him in 2000. Many of the things I may have said were out of line, or unsubstantiated, but I also stuck to my beliefs, which gained me respect.

Jump ahead to 4 years later, and some of the beliefs I had back then have changed, and some remain the same, although I may not be so adamant about them. One thing remains the same, no one can deny Barack Obama's cross-over appeal.

Whether someone is happy about the way the election turned out or not, you must recognize that this election was not only historic, but significant. I remember 4 years ago, and I probably even posted it, that I felt that one day, a black man could be president, but I did not feel that it would happen any time soon, or maybe later in my lifetime. Obviously, I was wrong. I felt that maybe there was too much racism left in this country, and while any racism is too much, it is not as rampant as one might have previously believed.

As I have spent the last few days looking over election results, and looking over states and counties where each respective candidate was victorious, I noted some obvious trends. As expected, Obama, no matter in which state, won the counties that were considered urban, or had a large city center. Regardless of whether it was in California or Georgia, Obama won the counties of large cities, and McCain generally won in counties that were more rural, as is usually the case for the Republican contender.

The most notable factor in Obama winning though, was in states where there is a lower than average minority population, or counties that have been Republican strongholds. It was no surprise to me that while Obama won Florida, McCain won in the county here in Florida that I live in. Drive a little further north to Alachua County were the Univ. of Florida is, and Obama wins. Mainly because of the young student population, but also because of the highly educated, advanced degree population that in academia is typically liberal, especially at a large university.

If you can find it though, look at a map of election results from North Carolina that shows the counties. Now, Obama won in Cumberland County, where I lived the last 13 years, and is home to Fayetteville, and Fort Bragg. I though McCain might win there because of the large military presence, but the factors that may have prevented him from winning are this 1) Just because you are stationed in North Carolina, doesn't mean you vote there, 2) A lot of military personnel are frustrated with the war, and 3) The total minority population in Cumberland County is larger than the total white population. Elsewhere in North Carolina, I was not surprised to see that Obama won in Mecklenburg Co. (Charlotte) Wake Co. (Raleigh) and Durham Co. (Durham, with Duke University and a large minority population). What was surprising to me is where Obama also won, counties in the far western part of the state in the mountains that are typically conservative with low minorities, as well as the NW part of the state, and even the coastal regions. Which proved my point. Obama's influence reached in areas that were previously untouched by the Democratic Party. Why this is, I do not know.

The only thing I can speculate, is that when people want change, they are not going to turn to the long time Washington politico, which McCain is. Which leads me into the qualifications part of this reply. In history, some of the most "qualified" persons who became president, are not rated very highly on the effectiveness scale, probably because of their long time experience in bureaucracy. To argue that Sarah Palin did not have the experience needed, one could also say that Obama does not have it either, nor did George W. Bush, or Bill Clinton. Obama went from basically college lecturer, to State Senator, US Senator, and the Presidency, in 6 years. Bush had 8 years as Gov. of Texas, Clinton in Arkansas. Based on this, Sarah Palin was just as qualified as any of them. I will even go out on a limb and say that Reagan did not have the qualifications needed either only serving as Gov. of California.

Let us look at other presidents who had the "qualifications", George H. W. Bush, Congressman, CIA director, Vice-President, and he became a one-termer. Nixon, resigned in disgrace. What I am getting at, is that "qualifications", really don't mean all that much, because if you look at the last 3 presidents, the future one included, none has the "qualifications", but what they did have was that ability to motivate a large group of people to vote for them. All of the are masters at getting elected, and appealing to a wide array of people. The most articulate, and motivation person will be elected, regardless of qualifications. Bush defeated Gore and Kerry, both of whom are about as stiff as a board and have the personalities of a wet mop. Clinton defeated Bush Sr. and Dole, who are not the most exciting of politicians, and Obama defeated McCain. McCain, while I feel was the better choice, had trouble connecting with the people, and unfortunately, his war wounds prevent him from being more animated, but what he lacks in personality, he makes up for in passion, and I truly believe that McCain is passionate about serving the country that he loves and almost died for, but his personality, and the fact that the Republican Party is basically taking the blame for everything that has happened in the last few years made a run for the presidency, by any Republican, almost impossible to win. Would McCain have defeated Hillary, who knows, we'll most likely never know, but it is all in the past now.

We will have a new President in January, but this is America, and while we may not agree with all of our new Presidents beliefs, we did not all agree with Bush's beliefs or policies did we? No one can please everyone, and regardless of whether the next President was McCain, Clinton, Romney, Giuliani, Huckabee, etc. we would all have some issue with some aspect with their presidency.

Obama inspired millions to vote who have never voted before, and regardless of the outcome, it was a victory in democracy. Millions of people came out to vote for the first time for the simple fact that they believed that they had a reason to vote, and that they finally had a voice that would speak for them. I read an article recently about a young black man named Lamont Carolina. He was basically a drifter with no purpose or direction in life, until he happened to find himself at an Obama rally in New York City. Obama inspired him, and he became an active supporter, and began leading his own rallies. Why? Because he was inspired to get involved. What will happen to him, who knows, but maybe in hearing Obama speak, and getting involved, he will have a new direction in life, and possibly make a positive difference in someones life, instead of winding up dead in the streets.

[hogwild63]

"I researched all the smear campaigns against Obama and they don't hold up as far as I'm conerned."

The bipartison websites I checked, the smears were about equal on both sides. If you were offended by the smears against Obama, why were you not offended by the smears against Palin? IMO, the smears were worse and she was just the VP candidate! You have to admit, McCain was smeared as well. It comes with the territory. Right or wrong, the smears against Obama will never reach the heights of those against Dubya.

"I've voted republican because of the abortion issue. Well, after 8 years of George W. abortions are still legal. I will not vote for a candidate based on one issue any more."

The abortion issue will never go away no matter who is president. It's too polarized of an issue. But I believe it will get worse with Obama at the healm.

"McCain is a fine man, but I disagree with his plan to save our economy."

If you voted your pocket book, be prepared to make sacrifices in other areas.

If things get alot better in the economy in his first term, I think it will be blank check time in 2012. Personally, I think things will get much better for the first term. I think we will see the real Obama in the second term.

There is an old saying that if it looks too good to be true, then it probably is. I think he is too good to be true and the issues you mentioned are going to take a beating in 2012. Not that they were my preferences with the Republicans but I took my chances with McCain/Palin.

[DocMort]

Smears against Palin brought her daughters into it for one. Once the news channels started to ask pointed and direct questions towards the Liberals they backed out and banned the media. Obama bin Biden will only make it a few years if he keeps on this road

[Swamphunter]

Here is all I will say about the "Race" issue and how much of an influence that played:rolleyes:

Thier "Saviour" does not have the power of God...but he does have a "Public Record" of his actions which was not the concern for most of them. Do they have any idea how "Racist" that makes them look? Do they care more about the color of a persons skin than thier personal voting testimony in public record?

When so many others before them fought an honorable fight against "Stupidity" and to tear down the walls and look past the color of a persons skin and see the actions, integrity, and love of thier families and this country...

They became what they fought so hard to overcome...."RACIST".

__________________

Well put GW... I heard a female news reporter on Fox make the statement "in a post- racist USA", and thought to myself, she is right. There is no call to refer to whites as racist when we elect a black President. But we all know down deep, it won't end, it is a crutch that is liked to be used by those scumbags, Sharpton and Jackson, everytime OJ murders or robs someone at gunpoint, and it gives a reason to riot and commit other crimes.

[crazylegz70]

To make this a little more positive swampy, i just realized that you retire in a year and 3 months.....CONGRATS!!!!!

[fly]

"I researched all the smear campaigns against Obama and they don't hold up as far as I'm conerned."

The bipartison websites I checked, the smears were about equal on both sides. If you were offended by the smears against Obama, why were you not offended by the smears against Palin?

I think it's poor taste for anyone to use a smear campaign. Offended isn't exactly the right term. I'd say the smear campaigns are what motivated me to reseach certain issues. For example: I couldn't vote for a person who hung around with terrorists no matter how much I agreed with his/her ideas.

[Gator]

I've read enough on the politics forum to know this is not a thread where differing opinions are welcomed.

However since a lot of people are wondering how Obama could have won I'll present you with this:

I'm not a youth, I'm 37 years old. I'm a white male who supports the NRA. I love to hunt. Ronald Reagan is my hero and I have a great deal of respect and admiration for McCain. I very upset with some of the decisions my states Democratic Governor has made and will not vote to keep him in office. I'm also pro-life and have served our country in the US Army National Guard for 8 years. I own a 300 Rem. ultra mag and I've voted for a republican president every year except this one. So why did I vote for Obama?

I researched all the smear campaigns against Obama and they don't hold up as far as I'm conerned. In the past I've voted republican because of the abortion issue. Well, after 8 years of George W. abortions are still legal. I will not vote for a candidate based on one issue any more. McCain is a fine man, but I disagree with his plan to save our economy. I'm not sure what to do regarding foreign policy. The right thing would have never went to war with Iraq. McCain doesn't talk about that much, whereas Obama has been against it all along. Sorry Palin supporters, but Sarah might be a great mom, hunter, and person, but not a potential president. I lost respect for McCain when he picked her. I saw it as a vote earning move, not a best candidate to serve our country move.

Everyone at the office yesterday was saying well we know who you voted for today. A lot of jaws dropped when I told them.

Anyway, if Obama could gain my support, it's not difficult to see how he won.

I think it's poor taste for anyone to use a smear campaign. Offended isn't exactly the right term. I'd say the smear campaigns are what motivated me to reseach certain issues. For example: I couldn't vote for a person who hung around with terrorists no matter how much I agreed with his/her ideas.

Okay I'm confused, and maybe I am missing something, but in your first post you said you voted for Obama, and in you last post, last sentence you say you couldn't vote for a person who hung around with terrorists............ One name, William Ayers

[Strut10]

............ One name, William Ayers

One other name.........Rashid Khalidi.

[Swamphunter]

To make this a little more positive swampy, i just realized that you retire in a year and 3 months.....CONGRATS!!!!!

Counting em' down brother!

[hogwild63]

If abortion WAS your issue, then...

I think you will be disappointed. I think he will move much faster than ppl thought he would. I do not think Republicans will have not nearly as much influence as he has claimed they will...

Obama reviews Bush orders on stem cells, drilling

Published - Nov 09 2008 11:17AM CST | AP

By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER - Associated Press Writer

President-elect Obama's transition chief said Sunday the incoming administration is looking to reverse President Bush's executive orders on stem cell research, oil and gas drilling and other matters.

John Podesta said the president can use such orders to move quickly without waiting for Congress to act, highlighting the extraordinary powers a president can wield beyond signing legislation approved by Congress. Podesta said people should expect Obama to use those powers to reverse many policies of the Bush administration.

"I think across the board, on stem cell research, on a number of areas, you see the Bush administration even today moving aggressively to do things that I think are probably not in the interest of the country," Podesta said in a broadcast interview.

"There's a lot that the president can do using his executive authority without waiting for congressional action, and I think we'll see the president do that," Podesta said.

President Bush has limited federal spending on stem cell research, a position championed by opponents of abortion rights. Obama has supported the research in an effort to find cures for diseases such as Alzheimer's.

Also, the federal Bureau of Land Management is opening about 360,000 acres of public land in Utah to oil and gas drilling, leading to protests from environmentalists.

"They want to have oil and gas drilling in some of the most sensitive, fragile lands in Utah," Podesta said. "I think that's a mistake."

Podesta also said Obama is working to build a Cabinet that is diverse. That includes reaching out to Republicans and independents _ part of the broad coalition that supported Obama during the race against Republican John McCain.

A top House Republican said there is a willingness to try to work with Obama to get things done. But Rep. Eric Cantor also said to expect Republicans to serve as a check against the power held by Obama and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat from California.

"There is going to be, I think, a willingness to try and get things done," Cantor said. "But at the end of the day I think you will see a Republican Party in Congress serving as a check and a balance against Mr. Obama's power and Speaker Pelosi's power."

Cantor, a Virginia Republican, is running to be the second-ranking Republican in the House _ the job of minority whip.

Cantor and Podesta spoke on "Fox News Sunday."

Edited November 9, 2008 by hogwild63
clean up article

[fly]

I work with people who I know little about. I even serve on several boards with people that for all I know could be terrorists. If someone were to say that I hang around or pal around with these people they would be wrong.

This could go on and on as politics do. At this time I'll be taking my leave from the politics forum and staying within the hunting ones.