muggs Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 I just wanted to take a minute to analyze what the University of Michigan gambled by investing into Rich Rob's spread offense (I won't mention what they lost by investing in a guy with no character in Rich Rob- that might be another thread though). In my opinion, the spread is on it's way out...well, not totaling, teams will always use the package, but I think the days of a team running it exclusively are almost over, even with the success of Okie St., Texas Tech, and Mizzou. It's failed horribly at Auburn. Maybe we can even get a little feedback from some UofM fans to see if you guys think it was worth it. Let's see: -Blue Chip QB Ryan Mallet transferred because the offense wasn't suited for him, or vice versa. -Terrell Pryor chooses to sign with the Buckeyes because he knew running the spread 100% of the time would not help him develop the skills needed to be an NFL QB. -The type of QB Michigan is used to recruiting is not the usual type of QB that can run the spread effectively, and Michigan has always been known as a power run team. So basically, they sold their identity (over 100 years worth) for a fad offense. So, Michigan fan, has it been worth it? Your thoughts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Pretty good analysis I would say. I thought Mallet was going to be awesome at Michigan I can't believe they ran him out. Here is the biggest problem I think. Coaches have become way way to full of themselves and the people hiring them allow them to be. You don't bring in a coach and say " Hi I am Rich Rod, here is my system, we are going to run this no matter what because I think I am a superstar" You adapt to what you have on your roster. Spread offense works just fine if you have Steve Slaton and Pat White to run it. When you have a roster full of talent that was built for another system it isnt going to work. Coaches have to adapt to what will work best with the roster they have. Period. Good example is when Mike Tomlin came to the Steelers. He is a huge Cover 2 defense guy, that's how he made his name. However, when he came in here he said look, I like the Cover 2, but I got Dick freaking LeBeau as my defensive coordinator so I'm just staying out of the way. Imagine if the Steelers defense was transferred to the Cover 2 because Tomlin wanted to feel mighty and powerful. How good do you think they would be than/then? Not very. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 In Michigan's defense......it always works in the movies. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Maybe we can even get a little feedback from some UofM fans to see if you guys think it was worth it. There's some of those left? I heard Meechygan wasn't even coming down this year because they couldn't get past Toledo earlier in the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig mack Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 I just want to know how Muggs can say Ohio St and NFL quarterback in the same sentence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted November 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 I just want to know how Muggs can say Ohio St and NFL quarterback in the same sentence? I can say OSU and a lot of things in the same sentence. OSU and Heismann OSU and National Championship OSU and a 5 game winnnig streak against Michigan OSU and signing the top recruit in the country OSU and not lossing to a Div I-AA team OSU and not lossing to a MAC school OSU and a good head football coach (sort of) OSU and talent to the NFL OSU and Big Ten Championships See it's easy. btw Craig- nice dodge.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMn106 Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Muggsy, I do not see how you can base Michigans spread on just one year. If you say he has to have the talent to use it atleast let him recruit 2-3 years so he can have the guys that he wants in there. Just because it does not work at one school (Auburn like you said) does not mean it will not work at another. It is all about personel. Look at what Rich Rod did at WVU when he had his own guys. Michigan can go with the hesimans and national champoinships, talent to the NFL and all that stuff also. It takes time to install a new offense and knew that coming in to the season. That is why I am not shocked at this year. So before you make judgements on if it will work or not, lets wait a couple years. So that way we can see Michigan beat up on OSU because we all know OSU has trouble with spreas offenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted November 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Muggsy, I do not see how you can base Michigans spread on just one year. If you say he has to have the talent to use it atleast let him recruit 2-3 years so he can have the guys that he wants in there. Just because it does not work at one school (Auburn like you said) does not mean it will not work at another. It is all about personel. Look at what Rich Rod did at WVU when he had his own guys. Michigan can go with the hesimans and national champoinships, talent to the NFL and all that stuff also. It takes time to install a new offense and knew that coming in to the season. That is why I am not shocked at this year. So before you make judgements on if it will work or not, lets wait a couple years. So that way we can see Michigan beat up on OSU because we all know OSU has trouble with spreas offenses. Yeah, but was it worth it? That's what I'm asking here. Was it worth losing Mallet? Was it worth losing out on Pryor? Was it worth changing 100 years of philosophy all because Rich Rod runs a spread and can't go away from it until he gets the type of guys he needs to run it? Keep in mind, Rich Rob (I call him that because he robbed the people of West Virginia of their money and a BSC bowl game- it's funny say it with me) was Michigan's third choice behind Les Miles and the guy from Rutgers if I remember correctly. So, was it worth lossing out on two blue-chip QBs and selling out your identity all to suffer through a year of public embarrassment all for this guy? And there's no guarantee things will get better, you're all hanging on to the slim hope that two years from now he might actually be able to run his offense? I guess I care too much about the Buckeyes to think risking all that for one coach with a gimmick scheme is worthwhile. So, Super my man, I ask you again. Was it worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 There is probably some truth to that since TT over the past 7 to 8 years has had one of the top passing QB and high QB ratings but not one of them has succeeded in the next level. I do believe their current QB will succeed. Okie St does run a semi type spread offense but their offense is based totally on the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig mack Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 I think it will be worth it. It just sucks now because we are at rock bottom but I think he will turn it around. As far as the 100 years of philosophy, we have been losing to our most hated rival (any guess on who that is) and most bowl games year after year with our predictable philosophy. It is probably the most embarrassing season of football that I have ever seen but if he can turn this thing around and in two seasons bring Michigan back to being a dominate team, I wont really care about this season. Now if the Lions can just go 0-16 it will take some of the pressure off of the Wolverines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMn106 Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 Yeah, but was it worth it? That's what I'm asking here. Was it worth losing Mallet? Was it worth losing out on Pryor? Was it worth changing 100 years of philosophy all because Rich Rod runs a spread and can't go away from it until he gets the type of guys he needs to run it? Keep in mind, Rich Rob (I call him that because he robbed the people of West Virginia of their money and a BSC bowl game- it's funny say it with me) was Michigan's third choice behind Les Miles and the guy from Rutgers if I remember correctly. So, was it worth lossing out on two blue-chip QBs and selling out your identity all to suffer through a year of public embarrassment all for this guy? And there's no guarantee things will get better, you're all hanging on to the slim hope that two years from now he might actually be able to run his offense? I guess I care too much about the Buckeyes to think risking all that for one coach with a gimmick scheme is worthwhile. So, Super my man, I ask you again. Was it worth it? To be honest with you, I was not all that impressed by mallet. Losing out on Pryor was a given. Even if Michigan had any other coach I still think he would have chose Ohio State anyway. Like what has been stated, we have been losing to our greatest rival very frequently lately. So anything to be able to beat them. I do not see it as selling out our identity. You have to be willing to change with the times and adapt to make yourself better. I think this year would have been bad no matter what. We lost a bunch of starters. Did I picture it this bad? No, but I was thinking around 4-5 wins. I also do not know why you call it a gimmick scheme? He has already taken one team to NATIONAL contention with it. Within the last couple of years, teams with with gimmick scheme has giving your buckeyes fits. Illinois last year and Penn State this year comes to mind. So to answer your question, I am not sure if it is worth it yet. I think it will be but only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 Here is the problem, by the time Rich Rod actually gets the recruits he wants he'll be fired. Trust me, Michigan plays anywhere near this next year he will be out the door and then/than you have to start all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 They got spanked today. That was almost not fun to watch. Almost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJL Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 Sometimes the loss of one piece causes a chain reaction that leads to the failure of the entire system................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted November 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 I do not see it as selling out our identity. You have to be willing to change with the times and adapt to make yourself better. The spread's on it's way out- especially in major conferences. You'll still see it at times during games, but teams aren't going to run it 100% of the time. Small teams that can't get talented, big armed QBs will still run it with the Pat White's of the world, but when you're a school the size of Michigan who can recruit QBs with NFL ablity you don't go away from that for a gimmick. The spread didn't do much for Texas Tech against a major program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierhunter Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Ok first off I'm from Indiana and live in South Bend. There is only one team I hate more than Michigan and it's USC.....I find Michigan utterly repulsive and have laughed my rear end off this year at them. But my laughs will be short lived...I've posted this earlier, but Michigan WILL win a National Title in 6 years or sooner. What Rod did at WVU was nothing short of one of the greatest coaching accomplishments in the last 20 years. He took a bunch city kids and talked them into moving in the backwoods of WV when they could have went about anywhere else they wanted. Now you give him the Michigan name and you expect less out of him.... The true problem was that Carr was past his time and ran an soft program and didn't work the kids like they should be worked. Now you had a bunch of whining little babies that couldn't take some hard work and wanted to transfer. Forget that Mallet said "it wouldn't work for him" and Pryor wasn't lost by Rod, his mind wasn't made up. It was between Mich, OSU, PSU and Oregon(out b/c of distance)...Come on-where would you go if those were your final 3 choices. It was a no-brainer.... Muggs you said the spread "didn't do much against a major team" but wait didn't "that" major team lose to another major team that TTU beat???? I got a tip for OSU....Let me make the schedule for you...Stop playing top 5 teams early in the year, but at the same time quit playing the MAC two games a year. The best thing you could do would be go play one SEC and another either BIG 12 or Pac-10 non-conference game. Be smart though don't go calling on USC, FL, OU etc...go find...Arizone, Miss, Ark, Neb...a average team for their conference. You then get a opinion outside our conference, but you don't jeopardize your season as much.... All in all Michigan will be fine and so will OSU...The big problem isn't necessarily either team, but the Big Ten in General. We gotta lock it up a little better. I love the Big Ten but we are turning into some whipping boys for other big programs. What I would love to see happen is OSU go down to Oregon and PSU and USC match up in the Rose bowl.....OSU your probably going to the Capital One bowl or something like that... Muggs you are right about one thing though and that's that Mallet was a proto-type NFL size pocket QB. Pryor is not that and Pryor will be a darn good college QB and win alot of games for you, but int he NFL he's a flop b/c the NFL doesn't like those qb's...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted November 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 The Big Ten will be fine. Three years ago the Big 12 was the laughing stock and the major conference everyone wanted to rip. This year it's the best confernce. And I'm sick of hearing about the SEC. Sure, Florida is having some great years under Urban Meyer...but for every Florida you have a Tennessee, a Vandy, and with the exception of this year, an Alabama. Ebbs and flows...ebbs and flows. You want to bet Rich Rob is coaching somewhere ele in 6 years? WVU is a solid program, it's not like Rich Rob took Alcorn St. and turned them into a top five team. He took a solid program and did what with them? What did he do? The spread won't last, especially at Michigan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierhunter Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 ok then tell me exactly what WVU accomplished pre-rod era? I can give you plenty of BCS stats on what happened afterwards......... The only reason he won't be there in 6 years is b/c the NFL snagged him up.....Michigan is a dream job on college football and only a NFL program will take him from that....Just wait a couple years from now I will sit here and be saying I told you so regarding Michigan........ Your letting your hatred for Michigan cloud your judgement on what they will be...Believe me I hate them just as much as you since I'm a ND fan, but I know too much about college football to write off that team and that coach..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhine16 Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 And I'm sick of hearing about the SEC. Sure, Florida is having some great years under Urban Meyer...but for every Florida you have a Tennessee, a Vandy, and with the exception of this year, an Alabama. Yet for every Ohio State you have an Indiana, a Northwestern, a Purdue, and except for this year, a Michigan State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierhunter Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Well since you asked me what he did at WVU I thought I should go look it up.... 2007 11-2 record 2006 11-2 record 2005 11-1 record 2004 8-4 record 2003 8-5 record 2002 9-4 record 2001 3-8 record-HIS FIRST YEAR!!!!look familiar Mich fans Coached from 2001-2007...combines record of 60-26 . 698 win percentage... That is the highest winning percentage in school history for a coach that stayed for at least 4 years...... That's what he's done at WVU.......What's even better is that what happened when HIS recruits got there????? Oh wait that started in 2005 when his kids were seniors...33-5 is what happened..... So all you Michigan idiots that think you should fire this guy..Wake up stop complaining and LOOK at what he did previous to you. Like I said Carr was out of date and this is what you needed.... God I hate Michigan but you got a hellva coach right now..Don't screw it up b/c you WILL ROMP the Big Ten if you let him do his thing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierhunter Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) Oh yeah the "solid" coach prior to Rich was 42-39 from 1995-2000 at WVU...HMMMMMM 500 ball..The only thing solid was a solid AVERAGE team prior to him....... That's a smokin gun right there.......... Edited November 24, 2008 by hoosierhunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMn106 Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 I am all with you hoosier. I believe he is a great coach and great things will happen. Just give him time to get his recruits in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted November 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Hoosier, are you related to Richy Rob? Whoa man...simmer. They lost to Pitt on the eve of a possible trip to the National Championship game, and then the guy- a son of a West Virginia coal miner and life long West Virginia native and WVU alumni- jumped ship right before their bowl game leaving his former players and coaches scrambling and picking up the pieces. He left WVU due to a deteriorating relationship with WV's Athletic Department (because he's an ego maniac) and Michigan had to pay 4 million to buy out his contract. His coming to Michigan made their most experience offensive lineman leave for Ohio State of all places because "the family values have eroded." You know what, he does sound like a great coach. He was sucessful at West Virginia for two reasaons and two reasons alone. Steve Slaton and Pat White. Both of whom you'll see on Sundays, one you already are and the other will be a kick returner and a slot receiver. Actually, let me add a third reason...heh coached in the Big East. Not exactly the Big Ten, or any other major conference for that matter. I know enough about character and inter-personal relationships to have written this guy off already. I was two years ahead of the curve on Fav-rah, don't test me. That concludes class for today guys, make sure you grab your assignment on the way out the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig mack Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Yet for every Ohio State you have an Indiana, a Northwestern, a Purdue, and except for this year, a Michigan State. Well played Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierhunter Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 (edited) Nope no relation and as I said I really hate Michigan and everything about them, but at the same time facts are facts.. He jumped ship for one of the most desired jobs in college football. It made complete sense that once he made that move that he didn't coach the bowl game... Michigan's offensive lineman didn't leave for the reasons he stated....Like most things if you read between the lines you would remember that he was soft and didn't want to work. Even his own teammates admitted that and he didn't like being pushed..I.E. what you get when you sign a native Ohio kid...(ok that isn't true but it sounds good) Your right he was successful at WVU b/c of Pat White and Slaton..You just made my point. He got those two studs to play in the backwoods instead of Florida Texas USC. Now imagine what he does with the Michigan name behind him. You also said you know enough about character to write this guy off, but you tell me what you would have done in his shoes while at WVU. Michigan comes calling a top 5 coaching job in the US and throws a great deal of money at you....Do you realize your opportunity or say no, b/c I coach my almater...Come on you know you would have done the exact same thing, so don't Chastise him for it.... You are right that the conference probably did give him about 2 more free wins per year that most other conferences don't have.... Muggs you actually more educated than most on college football and I enjoy the debate.... The one x-factor I see here that we will never know about that relationship with the athletic department. I was fortunate enough to play ball at Indiana State and what I saw happen down there between the athletic department and my program was horrible. I watched my AD(a dyke) stand up like she supported our team in front of us even ride our bus to a away game, but then when it came to giving us a dime she didn't do it. She never was on our side or our coaches and let me tell you that puts a strain that you can't imagine on a team and program. That would be something that I would like to understand better b/c in WVU's eyes really they should have had their dream coach...Native/alum/winning/etc...so why would those two have a bad relationship.... Edited November 25, 2008 by hoosierhunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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