AceArcher Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Let's imagine for a moment that President Obama made the realtree political forum members in charge of drafting a new gun control bill that would wipe clean all other gun laws and be supreme in this land. How do you think that new law should look and what should be included. I need to think about it a bit and will post my crack at this in a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) Without going into too much detail, here are some key points of my "Common Sense Gun Laws." 1. EVERY American citizen over the age of 21 with a clean legal record, including juvenile records, and no history of mental illness is eligible to purchase and own as many legal firearms and as much ammunition as they choose. 2. EVERY American citizen who can legally purchase a firearm may also legally carry a concealed handgun after completing a safety and proficiency training class. 3. Anyone in possession of a firearm or ammunition during the commission of a felony will serve a mandatory 25 year prison sentence, no parole, for a first conviction. Felons receiving a second conviction for firearm or ammunition possession will receive a mandatory life sentence, no parole. 4. Any individual who uses a legally possessed firearm against someone who is committing a felony will have complete immunity from criminal and civil prosecution. As far as what constitutes a "legal" weapon... 1. Any rifle, handgun, or shotgun that is incapable of fully automatic or selective fire. Edited December 1, 2008 by Texan_Til_I_Die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhunter91 Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Not to throw this thread off track, but what blows my mind is that in certain areas of the nation, we have to have an issued document stating that we are allowed to own firearms, when the only document that should be neccesary was written well over 200 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Well said Joe. And for those who claim that gun control laws should be a local decision, let me ask you this. Should your right to free speech or your right to practice the religion of your choice be a local decision? How about your right to vote? If we relegate the 2nd Amendment to local control, why not all the others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whttlbucksteve Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Texan I like the way you think,sounds good to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhunter91 Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Just to add on to what Texan is saying there... Oftentimes, the 2nd Amendment is questioned in todays society as to whether or not it is necessary and the liberal arguement is most always that it was different times when the Constitution was written and that our forefathers didn't think of or even imagine semi automatic or automatic firearms. My rebuttal to that comment is, then the internet shouldn't be included under free speech, right? I mean, surely our forefathers didn't think of the internet at the time. It was different times. Laws need to chance and adopt with the times and new technology. It really is insane how the Second Amendment is the only one that is questioned on so many levels when it is the ONLY Amendment that makes all others possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 the second amendment says it all. now, we are about to be told, again, that the constitution is "a living, breathing document." bull. it's not alive, and it doesn't breath, and it says clearly what it says. don't change a word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 Was going to wait for Ace's answer here before replying myself, but I have to agree with what Steve said above. We have our constitution, it is what it is and should not be changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceArcher Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Without going into too much detail, here are some key points of my "Common Sense Gun Laws." 1. EVERY American citizen over the age of 21 with a clean legal record, including juvenile records, and no history of mental illness is eligible to purchase and own as many legal firearms and as much ammunition as they choose. 2. EVERY American citizen who can legally purchase a firearm may also legally carry a concealed handgun after completing a safety and proficiency training class. 3. Anyone in possession of a firearm or ammunition during the commission of a felony will serve a mandatory 25 year prison sentence, no parole, for a first conviction. Felons receiving a second conviction for firearm or ammunition possession will receive a mandatory life sentence, no parole. 4. Any individual who uses a legally possessed firearm against someone who is committing a felony will have complete immunity from criminal and civil prosecution. As far as what constitutes a "legal" weapon... 1. Any rifle, handgun, or shotgun that is incapable of fully automatic or selective fire. I think this is pretty darn good and very close...almost exactly what I would have written. Two questons. 1) On the conceal carry...where/when could you carry a firearm? For example...could you have one while in a bar while drinking? 2) I assume we would accomplish points 1 & 2 thru background checks and licensing? I would point out that this is actually much more prohibitive than in many states right now. Right now a convicted felon can buy a gun from a gun show b/c there is not a system to check on point 2 above. Point 3 I think is a little harsh. I personally am not a big fan of mandatory sentencing. For example...under 3 above if a person was carrying at commit a felony such as drunk driving and be sentenced to 25 years. However, people need to know that if you use a gun to threaten someones life...they are going away for a long time. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxAgJeepr Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Right now a convicted felon can buy a gun from a gun show b/c there is not a system to check on point 2 above. Not to split hairs here, but you're not quite correct on this. If you buy a weapon at a gun show from a licensed dealer, you still have to do the paperwork. Just like you would if you bought the weapon at his shop. The supposed "gun show loophole" refers to buying a weapon from an individual, be it at a table or carrying it around. No paperwork required. Much like buying a gun from a "for sale listing" in the newspaper. It's an individual to individual transaction. Just my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceArcher Posted December 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Here is why I ask who/when/where people can carry concealed firearms. A couple cops here in SoIL got into a barfight and decided to start shooting instead of throwing punches. When the real cops showed up they shot one of them who had their guns drawn while drunk. http://www.bnd.com/372/story/568311.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Here is why I ask who/when/where people can carry concealed firearms. A couple cops here in SoIL got into a barfight and decided to start shooting instead of throwing punches. When the real cops showed up they shot one of them who had their guns drawn while drunk. http://www.bnd.com/372/story/568311.html Guess if you want to look at it that way, maybe we should take away all guns from everyone including the cops Ace. Bad apples in all forms, is it fair or just to use those examples to strip the rights of everyone else and leave them without a form of self defense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativetexan Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I don't know the laws in every single state when it comes to concealed carry, but I sure know where to find them. The one law I see most is you are not allowed to carry while in an establishment whose sole purpose is to serve alcohol. So, I don't consider an illegal situation a hypothetical. A certain amount of integrity is required to be a legal gun owner when the Constitution affords us that right for our own self defense. It's no secret that some people lack that integrity. Don't punish those with integrity because of those without it. Every hypothetical situation presented here should have already taken into account the laws and a man's integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Let's imagine for a moment that President Obama Thats hard part right here!!! :mad::rolleyes::mad: Without going into too much detail, here are some key points of my "Common Sense Gun Laws." 1. EVERY American citizen over the age of 21 with a clean legal record, including juvenile records, and no history of mental illness is eligible to purchase and own as many legal firearms and as much ammunition as they choose. 2. EVERY American citizen who can legally purchase a firearm may also legally carry a concealed handgun after completing a safety and proficiency training class. 3. Anyone in possession of a firearm or ammunition during the commission of a felony will serve a mandatory 25 year prison sentence, no parole, for a first conviction. Felons receiving a second conviction for firearm or ammunition possession will receive a mandatory life sentence, no parole. 4. Any individual who uses a legally possessed firearm against someone who is committing a felony will have complete immunity from criminal and civil prosecution. As far as what constitutes a "legal" weapon... 1. Any rifle, handgun, or shotgun that is incapable of fully automatic or selective fire. I totally agree with this! Not to throw this thread off track, but what blows my mind is that in certain areas of the nation, we have to have an issued document stating that we are allowed to own firearms, when the only document that should be neccesary was written well over 200 years ago. Very well said!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceArcher Posted December 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I don't know the laws in every single state when it comes to concealed carry, but I sure know where to find them. The one law I see most is you are not allowed to carry while in an establishment whose sole purpose is to serve alcohol. So, I don't consider an illegal situation a hypothetical. A certain amount of integrity is required to be a legal gun owner when the Constitution affords us that right for our own self defense. It's no secret that some people lack that integrity. Don't punish those with integrity because of those without it. Every hypothetical situation presented here should have already taken into account the laws and a man's integrity. This is not a hypothetical question. It happened right here in Southern IL not 3 weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 This is not a hypothetical question. It happened right here in Southern IL not 3 weeks ago. Well Ace, check out this thread http://www.realtree.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80235 and click the link and listen to the woman's testimony. Shame on the state for ccw issues that had her feeling like a criminal and leading to her leaving her pistol out of her purse. Not that it really matters to all the dead people and their families, but wonder if the gunman there had a ccw permit or if he had a weapon that was legally obtained? Plenty of situations and ways to spin them, but the bottom line is that we have the right to defend ourselves, it was intentionally written into our constitution because they new what might happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativetexan Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 This is not a hypothetical question. It happened right here in Southern IL not 3 weeks ago. That's great. So how do you propose to fix the problem without trampling on other's rights that had nothing to do with the situation at hand? Do you honestly believe that throwing more laws at something will fix it? That's ridiculous. It's like throwing money at a near bankrupt auto industry. Nothing will fix a problem until the offenders are removed from this situation. The law is written. Plain and simple. The over emotional will cry for a banning. But these are also the people who don't have the stomach to realize that this life is full of tragedy. Often times I imagine these people trying to ban a natural death and calling for more money and research to keep people alive forever simply so they don't have to feel emotion in a negative sense. Much less take into account whatever irresponsible action took place to cause the tragedy. Example: A mother comes on t.v. shortly after her son is shot and killed while participating in gang activity. Instead of calling on the city to do more about violent gang related crime, or accepting responsibility for her failure to keep her son out of this lifestyle, she cries to the public to call for a ban on guns. Pathetic. Almost every scenario when it comes to gun crime is related to this type of situation. It all started out with someone's intention to break the existing law. For which they will pay the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativetexan Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Silence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceArcher Posted December 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Been busy. I was just making the point that even with the most well trained when you have guns and emotions running high... bad things will happen. Angry people and guns don't mix. It is one thing to have a gun to protect your home but quite another to carry around for protection in case you get in a fight and start getting your butt beat. Personally I would be a little uneasy if a guy was sitting in a bar drinking, running off at the mouth and carrying a gun. What if he is grabbing on my wife (what these cops where said to be doing) should I punch him in the mouth or just let him abuse my wife b/c he is a cop and has a gun. If we are going to have handgun carry rights then we need laws that define who, when, where, what and how. Otherwise any criminal/thug/insane person/ or wife beater can go buy a gun and carry it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativetexan Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 (edited) Those laws are already on the books Ace, and unfortunately exposes just how much you really know about gun rights. But to create more laws based on the potential of man is not what this country is based upon. You cannot pre-judge someone. They must first give reason (commit a crime, etc.) and be judged by our legal system before they lose any rights. I don't know why people can't understand that. We are not other countries. We are the United States of America. If the guy was abusing my wife, you darn straight I would do everything in my power to defend her. Gun or not. Edited December 18, 2008 by nativetexan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoyt fanatic Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Without going into too much detail, here are some key points of my "Common Sense Gun Laws." 1. EVERY American citizen over the age of 21 with a clean legal record, including juvenile records, and no history of mental illness is eligible to purchase and own as many legal firearms and as much ammunition as they choose. 2. EVERY American citizen who can legally purchase a firearm may also legally carry a concealed handgun after completing a safety and proficiency training class. 3. Anyone in possession of a firearm or ammunition during the commission of a felony will serve a mandatory 25 year prison sentence, no parole, for a first conviction. Felons receiving a second conviction for firearm or ammunition possession will receive a mandatory life sentence, no parole. 4. Any individual who uses a legally possessed firearm against someone who is committing a felony will have complete immunity from criminal and civil prosecution. As far as what constitutes a "legal" weapon... 1. Any rifle, handgun, or shotgun that is incapable of fully automatic or selective fire. So you are tellin me that if they wrongly accuse me of a crime and I happen to have a leftover bullet from a match in my pocket that I have to go to jail for 25 years?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washi Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I would think 18 would be the age to legally own a gun. I mean if you can vote and go into the armed forces you should be able to legally own one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 So you are tellin me that if they wrongly accuse me of a crime and I happen to have a leftover bullet from a match in my pocket that I have to go to jail for 25 years?!No. If you're wrongly accused you'll be acquitted and there will be no penalty. If you're guilty of committing a felony and you have a firearm or ammunition on your person during said commission, better get ready to do some hard time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Personally I agree with the hard time for any felony committed....rather it be with or without a weapon. That being said, I don't find that having ammunition on your person is worthy of a conviction. A firearm.....you bet.....ammunition without a firearm....NO WAY. Just to clear any confusion, I would want the felon to be charged with the maximum penalty allowed for whatever felony he/she committed with the added 25 years if he had a firearm on his person. If he had a .22 bullet, and no proof of a firearm, or other dangerous weapon, then I believe he should serve for the felony committed....not an additional firearms conviction also. JM2C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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