dogdoc Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? TSB---I have different feeling about a person being "born gay". I have known several men with very feminine personalities and characteristics that leave completely normal heterosexual lives. I wonder if these men ever fight their sexuality?? I also have a hard time believing that God would have a child "born gay". A destiny of pain and according to the bible an eternity in ****. That just doesn't seem something God would do. I wish I could give you an answer---I just can't find one on this issue. todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntinsonovagun Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? This subject gets me fired up! OK....so "you're born gay," but the bible says we are created in the image of God.....so God is gay???? Think about it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] TSB---I have different feeling about a person being "born gay". I have known several men with very feminine personalities and characteristics that leave completely normal heterosexual lives. I wonder if these men ever fight their sexuality?? I also have a hard time believing that God would have a child "born gay". A destiny of pain and according to the bible an eternity in ****. That just doesn't seem something God would do. I wish I could give you an answer---I just can't find one on this issue. todd [/ QUOTE ] Well, I believe they are born gay, I know someone who fights it and has not been very successful over the years. My feelings on the subject are this, yes the bible condemns it, but where does Jesus Christ condemn it, he doesn't, most of the condemnation comes from the Apostle Paul, and he wasn't Jesus Christ. Of course, it all comes down to what you believe and if you believe that the bible hasn't been changed since it's inception. I believe it has, early leaders didn't make Christianity the official religion because they were pious God-fearing men, they did it for personal gain, what with the selling of salvation and all, there was a Pope, I can't remember his name cause I don't have the book in front of me, in the early 1000's, can't even remember the time period, anyhoo, he was married, had a child with the mistress, then committed incest with his daughter and had a child with her, all while he got rich off the peasants his cardinals sold salvation to, he wasn't the first and he wasn't the last to use religion for his own gain. I just have a hard time believing that things weren't added to the bible that weren't there in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] OK....so "you're born gay," but the bible says we are created in the image of God.....so God is gay???? Think about it...... [/ QUOTE ] It also says that God has no form, he is everywhere. The image of God passage doesn't refer to him looking like us or we like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuntingInMaine Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] We, who are Christians, welcome the sinner to our church that they may hear the Word of God, be saved, and part from their paths of sin. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't everyone a sinner, even the Christians? This is my opinion on this whole thing. God doesn't rate sin. A sin is a sin. That means that in God's eyes, a lie I told is just as bad as the homosexual act that someone else has committed. With that being said, it doesn't seem fair that the church single out the homosexuals since every member of the congregation is a sinner. I understand that a person who is gay is sinning on a regular basis, but so does everyone else, but they aren't singled out and ostracized because of it (in most cases). God is the only one who is allowed to judge others, so it really isn't any of our business what sins who is committing. God is keeping tract of all that. All we are suppose to do is love each other! Slugshooter, I have done a lot of research into the evolution of religion and agree that the bible does not contain the message it originally held. Is the pope you are talking about pope innocent? Sounds a lot like him, but there were a lot of popes around that were like that during that time in history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] Is the pope you are talking about pope innocent? Sounds a lot like him, but there were a lot of popes around that were like that during that time in history. [/ QUOTE ] Can't remember, I read about it in the book " A World Lit Only By Fire " excellent book if you get a chance to read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] Having said that, I think some of us need to be more tolerant of gays. I'm sure some gays are out there flaunting it and being lascivious, but there's plenty of straights out there like that too. Just because someone's gay doesn't mean they will be out there trying to convert the world or will be pedophiles. There's good and bad gays just like there's good and bad straights. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this to a point. Myself – I could care less whether you’re in love with a man, woman or anything else that you could possibly have sex with. My belief is that you’ll be judged by a supreme being one day and you and only you will be held accountable for your actions. Where I go off the deep end on this subject is when we’re forced to “except” them by society, by the media and by the government and when we don’t except them, then we’re labeled as “homophobic” I’m not a homophobic, I’m a middle class, straight white American and have been called a lot worse names other than homophobic but to date this is the only one that really gets under my skin. We’ve even allowed our judicial system to become biased to these freaks. No matter what the situation, you kick a homo’s **** and you’re brought up on charges of a hate-crime. Sure, I be you hated to have to kick his **** – but does that justify a hate-crime? Again, I don’t care what you do in your home – just as long as it’s legal and involves adults, just don’t tell me about and don’t expect me to except it because society thinks I need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] God doesn't rate sin. A sin is a sin [/ QUOTE ] Disagree - There are some sins that you can't be forgiven for - the bible does address these. But to be honest with you - I don;t know if homosexuality is one them - I'll have to research it and get back with ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] Tominator, I sincerely wish you had a different opinion. I am sure I will not change your mind and will not try. I do ask how anyone can make the following comment about interracial relationships: ("Still too much social stigmata in my opinion. I've seen some that work, but in most cases they are socially unacceptable.") Are you saying that a heterosexual couple is socially unacceptable, but that we should condone, tolerate, and socially accept the behavior of homosexuals? [/ QUOTE ] I seem to be whistling in the wind here. I agree with a lot of what you posted, and it seems Todd and I share a lot of the same feelings, he's just more eloquent than I am. And, being socially unacceptable is not condemning, it's just my opinion, an opinion that I hold true for homosexual couples too. Yes, I believe homosexual couples are socially unacceptable, of course I do. By definition, anything out of the "norm" is socially unacceptable, there's plenty of things that I consider socially unacceptable. Farting in public is socially unacceptable for crying out loud. I don't condemn either one, I pray for both. My message is still about tolerance and forgiveness. Unless I can talk to you all face to face or maybe on the phone, I'm done with this topic. Sorry I even got involved. lol. Why do I wander into the political forum--geez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? Looks like I missed a lot in here yesterday afternoon. [ QUOTE ] Pretty much what I get out of it is that we are supposed to be sensitive to queers. [/ QUOTE ] Got the same thing out of it Mike. What more would you expect from the wonderful home state of John Kerry, LOL. Seriously I am sure it happens every where. With all the frivilous lawsuits now a days and people crying about their feelings getting hurt over this and that, I dont really think the church can not be open to people with "other lifestyles" coming in to worship, however I dont think they should have an attitude that others should be sensitive or accepting to those who engage in such a sin. I do tend to agree with Chris in that it is not our place to judge those who engage in that type activity or lifestyle, however that does not mean we have to be sensitive or accepting of it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted January 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] Well, I believe they are born gay, I know someone who fights it and has not been very successful over the years. [/ QUOTE ] Dude, your not serious are you Oh man, I am LMAO big time. I won't even comment on that. Dogdoc, I do understand what you are saying and I hope that you do as well. The American Society should not have to be more tolarlant or sensitive to the gay and lesebien(sp) community. I am not talking about going out and beating up every gay person either, I am simply saying that if they want to be gay, that's fine but don't ask the American people to accept it. And you see, this is the path that we are going down now in todays society. No wonder more and more people are turning gay...it is because they are being taught that it is OK and that people should be more tolarant to the subject. Slugo....tell that someone that you know who is gay and can't seem to get over it...tell him to come see me and I will make sure he is successful I can't believe you said that man. Still LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] Dude, your not serious are you Oh man, I am LMAO big time. I won't even comment on that. And you see, this is the path that we are going down now in todays society. No wonder more and more people are turning gay...it is because they are being taught that it is OK and that people should be more tolarant to the subject. [/ QUOTE ] I don't really think it's all that funny. And people don't turn gay, ask a person if one day he woke up and decided to be gay or if he felt like that his whole life and tell me what answer you get. Just because you don't understand it or don't want to doesn't mean it's not the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted January 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Dude, your not serious are you Oh man, I am LMAO big time. I won't even comment on that. And you see, this is the path that we are going down now in todays society. No wonder more and more people are turning gay...it is because they are being taught that it is OK and that people should be more tolarant to the subject. [/ QUOTE ] I don't really think it's all that funny. And people don't turn gay, ask a person if one day he woke up and decided to be gay or if he felt like that his whole life and tell me what answer you get. Just because you don't understand it or don't want to doesn't mean it's not the truth. [/ QUOTE ] Dude, IT IS FUNNY MAN "He's been fighting it for years and can't seem to get over it" Oh my head hurts man from laughing so hard. But you know what, your right slugo, it isin't funny...it's sick. That has to be the most original excuse I have ever heard. Look, enough about the guy that can't seem to get over it after trying for a long time....we are way off key here now. All I wanted to do was show my family in here that a man can't even take his family to church without having to deal with this. Maybe shotupdeer is right, maybe we will see a gay President someday. I mean everybody else is turning gay around here. Hey, I have an idea...seeing how American Citizens are being told to be more tolarant and sensitive to gays, why not let them just get married in every state and let them adopt kids and everything. Let's allow them to be teachers, principles....yeah, let's allow that. We are on the right path....yeah, straight to poop too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] Let's allow them to be teachers, principles....yeah, let's allow that. [/ QUOTE ] Unfortunately I am afraid there are likely many out there who are even though you may not know it. Not a matter of allowing, it is happening everywhere. Think the views held by many as what is acceptable is taking a very bad turn. Those who hold the belief that "they can do whatever they want so long as it does not affect me" are in a way ignoring that more and more people are CHOOSING to live this type of lifestyle as it becomes maybe to be viewed as somewhat more acceptable by some people. Bad thing is the more acceptable it seems to become the more likely it is to have an affect on those who chose to ignore it. I do not buy the crap that people are born gay. Sure there are instincts that may be too much for some people to handle, just like in some animals. For instance we all have probably seen female dogs that will try to dry hump peoples legs or another dog and you see several other natural occurences that might lead you to think that is abnormal behavior, but does that make them gay. Think that is instinct or maybe confusion, those people still have a choice even if they are confused or are having thoughts that go against what we all view as normal. It is knowing that it is wrong and still doing it that is where people seem to have problems. In saying it is acceptable people begin to think it is not wrong , take a look at where that is headed. Anyone has choice in who they chose as a partner to have sex with. Saying you are born that way is nothing more than a cop out imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? sticking to the original subject of churches and gays, I dont think its the churches place to turn anyone away that wants to worship thier.Because someones gay doesnt mean they dont have the right to worship God. you dont have to like em, and you dont have to be tolerant of them.But the last time I checked freedom of religion applied to everyone.Whats the difference between not gays into a church and not letting blacks into your church? Off topic, I dont understand gays, Im not real tolerant of them myself, and dont like thier lifestyle much.So dont get the impression Im sticking up for them in anyway.But the only thing that bothers me as much as gays is hypocritical christians who take what they want from the bible and ignore the rest.Like quoting how homosexuality is a sin but they quote nothing about judging others which is what theyre doing.Im not a real good christian myself, to much of what I see going on at the church is contradictory to me.Some of the "best christians' in the church are the worst people youd ever want to meet 6 days a week. If they can attend what the ****, mght as well let the gays in to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? Back to churches...i dont think there going gay I think they have been gay for a long time...look at the number of priests who are caught molesting kids...look at the number of people who work with religious groups who get caught. My opinion its been in the church a long long time, and makes the church look pretty hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SRA Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] Because someones gay doesnt mean they dont have the right to worship God. [/ QUOTE ] what?????? that right there folks is what's wrong in america today...... it's starts small and just keeps escalating into more and more problems........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? How anyone can put a 20th century writer's accounts of History and knowledge of the truth in scripture, before someone like the apostle Paul, who walked with Jesus, talked with Jesus, was taught by Jesus, and witness his miracles, his death and saw him after he was resurrected, is beyond me. As far as the Roman Catholic Church goes, during the middle ages and even today, the atrocities that happened then and and since then, are totally inconsistant with God's word. There are many things that the Roman Catholic Church does that is not consistant with the bible...the same bible that they teach from......But that is a whole other topic...LOL The Roman Catholics were not the first Christian Church. To say that the Bible was changed and does not contain the same truths that the original texts conveyed, is a pretty bold statement, without giving proof of what was changed. You can cross reference everything in the bible to prove and understand what something you find confusing means. The bible even says of itself: 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions Proverbs 21:16 A man who strays from the path of understanding comes to rest in the company of the dead. Mark 4:11-13 11He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that, “ ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]” 13Then Jesus said to them, “Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? How can a homosexual "Turn" from their sin and be forgiven if the church condones what they do, no longer calls it a sin, and hides the truth of God from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] But the only thing that bothers me as much as gays is hypocritical christians who take what they want from the bible and ignore the rest.Like quoting how homosexuality is a sin but they quote nothing about judging others which is what theyre doing [/ QUOTE ] Is pointing out to someone they are living in sin and need to turn from it, by quoting what God's word has to say about the subject Judging them ???? .....I beg to differ. It is loving them enough to tell them the truth. When you see your child playing too close to a busy road, do you shout out to them to stay clear and get back home where it's safe or do you just ignore them. Would ignoring them, still be considered loving them in your opinion?? Since when is telling the truth, casting judgment ?? If I was to say, all homosexuals are going to **** and there is no way out and no chance of salvation ... then, I would be judging them,because I would be handing down their sentence, before the fact. There is hope for homosexuals, in Jesus Christ ...is that judging...I think not. There is even hope for me, through my faith in Jesus and by his undeserved grace in my own life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? (Off Topic a bit) The aguement: "I WAS BORN THIS WAY" Many homosexuals argue that they have not chosen their condition, but that they were born that way, making homosexual behavior natural for them. But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them. Since sexual desire is subject to a high degree of cognitive conditioning in humans (there is no biological reason why we find certain scents, forms of dress, or forms of underwear sexually stimulating), it would be most unusual if homosexual desires were not subject to a similar degree of cognitive conditioning. Even if there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality (and studies on this point are inconclusive), the behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. It does not make homosexual behavior acceptable; other behaviors are not rendered acceptable simply because there may be a genetic predisposition toward them. For example, scientific studies suggest some people are born with a hereditary disposition to alcoholism, but no one would argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable "lifestyle" any more than homosexuality is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Because someones gay doesnt mean they dont have the right to worship God. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what?????? that right there folks is what's wrong in america today...... it's starts small and just keeps escalating into more and more problems........ [/ QUOTE ] Rax, what is the difference bewtween thier right to freedom of religion and lets say your right to bear arms?Not everyones gay, but not everyone owns guns either, see what Im saying?Either way its a right you have in this country, some choose to use these rights like you owning guns,some think owning guns is immoral and dangerous.If you want to take the freedom to religoin from the gays dont complain when they take your guns away.Its a dangerous road when you start infringing on peoples rights, and you dont know whats gonna be next. Buckee, slow down bud, I never said you were a hypocrite. Not allowing them into the church would be judging them.How are they gonna see what theyre doing is wrong if they cant go to the one place where its discussed in the bible?I thought thats what the topic was here, homos being welcomed into the church.I reread the posts though and can see where you got the impression I was talking about you, I didnt notice the quotes from the bible earlier in the post LOL. . And whats God say about adualtry{SP}? People know its wrong to screw around on their spouses but they do it everyday.If being gay is something you can control, sleeping with your wifes best friend or whoever it is, is definately something you should be able to control.But straight people seem to have no problem violating these rules.Most of you probably havent done this but lorts of straight married people have.So do you all view them the same as gays?Theyre doing the same thing, having sex with people they shouldnt be.Should you be banned from your church if your caught cheating on your wife?Its the same thing, theyre both sins involving sleeping with the wrong person, they can both be considered lifestyle choices, but I bet most of you at least know someone who has cheated on thier spouse. In my mind I cant see where being a sinner, no matter what the sin, is grounds for being kept away from the church.like I said, you dont have to like em, you dont have to be tolerant of em, but what happens between them and God is thier businuess, and in this country its a freedom granted to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? Sorry Horst, I didn't mean to sound so defensive, but I needed to express myself on that issue that you brought up, simply because many people acuse Christians of Judging people, the minute we open our mouths. They fail to see the Love that is required to care enough to open your mouth. just talking in General...forgive me [ QUOTE ] And whats God say about adualtry{SP}? People know its wrong to screw around on their spouses but they do it everyday.If being gay is something you can control, sleeping with your wifes best friend or whoever it is, is definately something you should be able to control.But straight people seem to have no problem violating these rules.Most of you probably havent done this but lorts of straight married people have.So do you all view them the same as gays? [/ QUOTE ] I view them the same Horst...can't speak for anyone else though .. Your right ..the whole subject of sexual promiscuity and immorality encompasses a large spectrum of sin in our society today. The Gay issue is the tip of the iceburg. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] How anyone can put a 20th century writer's accounts of History and knowledge of the truth in scripture, before someone like the apostle Paul, who walked with Jesus, talked with Jesus, was taught by Jesus, and witness his miracles, his death and saw him after he was resurrected, is beyond me. [/ QUOTE ] Buckee, this may be a typo or you may have gotten confused, so forgive me for what I am about to say. I am not sure I can read anything else you type about religion when such a glaring mistake has been made, the Apostle Paul, or Saul, his original name, persecuted Christians, never walked with Jesus, never saw Jesus, never talked to Jesus, never saw him crucified and certainly never saw him resurrected, if you remember, Saul was on his way to Damascus when a "bright light" blinded him and he heard a voice " Saul, why do you persecute me?" Go see Peter or (I can't remember) and he'll give you back your sight. Condensed version, but you get my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? Your right slugger...see what happens when you get too jealous...LMBO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? Buckee--I think you might have Paul confused with one of the disciples [ QUOTE ] How can a homosexual "Turn" from their sin and be forgiven if the church condones what they do, no longer calls it a sin, and hides the truth of God from them. [/ QUOTE ] So True! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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