slugshooter Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? All this bickering back and forth and low and behold I grew enough points to become a monster. Buckee, let's pick a place to meet so I can try out my new rack in a nice display of dominance so we can try and impress Halle Berry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted February 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? Look, it seems like we are getting off course here. I see nothing wrong with a gay person seeking a church to try and rid of his or her wrong doing. I can also see a church accepting that person. It would be wrong for them not to. BUT AGAIN...as I am beating a dead horse here, the church is SUPPORTING them and telling the congregation to be sensitive to them. End of story. The world is doomed...one way or another. Maybe I oughta turn gay...I would fit right in up here . Then I can say I was born gay right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntinsonovagun Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] The image of God passage doesn't refer to him looking like us or we like him. [/ QUOTE ] What does it refer to then??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] Maybe I oughta turn gay...I would fit right in up here . Then I can say I was born gay right [/ QUOTE ] That might be a little to tolerant TSBH, maybe you should look for a happy medium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] you dont have to like em, and you dont have to be tolerant of them.But the last time I checked freedom of religion applied to everyone.Whats the difference between not gays into a church and not letting blacks into your church? [/ QUOTE ] I think Chris is absolutely right here. What is the difference in discriminating by color or by sexual preference it is discriminating just the same. We are not to judge and not allowing those people to worship would be judging them. You dont have to accept or condone the lifestyle, and I dont agree that the church should neccesarily acting a way that seems to be condoning or openly accepting homosexual activity which by the original post by tsbh here it seems that that particular church in my opinion at least is in a way condoning that activity. I think that the church should try to educate those people and should let them know that it is wrong and is not acceptable according to the way the bible reads. [ QUOTE ] Im not a real good christian myself, to much of what I see going on at the church is contradictory to me.Some of the "best christians' in the church are the worst people youd ever want to meet 6 days a week. If they can attend what the ****, mght as well let the gays in to. [/ QUOTE ] Guess in that respect I am not either. I know what I believe in my heart and mind, a building has no bearing on that. Again I have to agree with what Chris is saying here. Not to come across to be judging anyone, but just my perspective in what I see around here for the most is that the churches we have been are filled with many of those snooty holier than thou people who will cut your throat and stab you in the back screw your wife during the week then smile to your face on Sunday and act like they are "good Christians". We got away from that and do not go to a "church" building at this point, but do still hold very firm beliefs in Christ just the same. I dont understand why one sinner would think they are any better than another just because you do not agree with their lifestyle. That is between them and God, I have no part in it. [ QUOTE ] But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them. [/ QUOTE ] I do agree with you on this Steve and I do not think they are born that way either as I said before. Instincts and thoughts and what you chose to do with them are controllable. The more society views homosexuality as any less abnormal the more it seems to be growing, things are certainly hewading in the wrong direction all over the world in that respect. The conditioning of society saying "it is ok to come out of the closet" has made the way for more people to think in their minds that it is ok to experiment and next thing you know they think they were born gay because they prefer their own gender for sex partners. To me that is an excuse. We all have the ability to control our urges just like a thief can control their urge not to steal. Making up excuses is not solving anything, but only makig viewed as more normal or acceptable which in turn is making things worse. [ QUOTE ] In my mind I cant see where being a sinner, no matter what the sin, is grounds for being kept away from the church.like I said, you dont have to like em, you dont have to be tolerant of em, but what happens between them and God is thier businuess, and in this country its a freedom granted to everyone. [/ QUOTE ] Again finding myself agreeing with Chris. Not our place to judge, you cannot lock em out of the churches, but that does not mean you have to like or accept what they are or what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] Because someones gay doesnt mean they dont have the right to worship God. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rax, what is the difference bewtween thier right to freedom of religion and lets say your right to bear arms?Not everyones gay, but not everyone owns guns either, see what Im saying?Either way its a right you have in this country, some choose to use these rights like you owning guns,some think owning guns is immoral and dangerous.If you want to take the freedom to religoin from the gays dont complain when they take your guns away.Its a dangerous road when you start infringing on peoples rights, and you dont know whats gonna be next. Buckee, slow down bud, I never said you were a hypocrite. Not allowing them into the church would be judging them.How are they gonna see what theyre doing is wrong if they cant go to the one place where its discussed in the bible?I thought thats what the topic was here, homos being welcomed into the church.I reread the posts though and can see where you got the impression I was talking about you, I didnt notice the quotes from the bible earlier in the post LOL. . And whats God say about adualtry{SP}? People know its wrong to screw around on their spouses but they do it everyday.If being gay is something you can control, sleeping with your wifes best friend or whoever it is, is definately something you should be able to control.But straight people seem to have no problem violating these rules.Most of you probably havent done this but lorts of straight married people have.So do you all view them the same as gays?Theyre doing the same thing, having sex with people they shouldnt be.Should you be banned from your church if your caught cheating on your wife?Its the same thing, theyre both sins involving sleeping with the wrong person, they can both be considered lifestyle choices, but I bet most of you at least know someone who has cheated on thier spouse. In my mind I cant see where being a sinner, no matter what the sin, is grounds for being kept away from the church.like I said, you dont have to like em, you dont have to be tolerant of em, but what happens between them and God is thier businuess, and in this country its a freedom granted to everyone. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think anyone said they did not have the right to worship. What the problem is, is that this church by accepting and welcoming in this way, they are saying that this is a lifestyle that is pleasing to them and to God. It is not. Do they have the right to worship? Yes, but with joining most denominations you must live within thier moral code. Take drinking for instance. Befor I was saved, I drank a lot. After I got saved I stopped drinking as much, but did not stop. When I became a Baptist, I read the churches bylaws. One of them said that they did not drink alcohol. This was the only thing that I did not agree with in thier bylaws, but I decided to join the church anyway. As a member of this church I took it on myself not to drink anymore. Not because I didn't want to, or beacause I thaught it was wrong, (which I still don't), but because as a member of this organization I knew I would be represnting them everywhere I went. What they stood for, so would I. If a church has a system of beliefs yet does not enforce or teach the beliefs, then what is the point of having church? This is a place where we learn right from wrong. We learn by hearing it and by example. Not by allowing it to go on. Yes, my church enforces church discipline. When someone is doing something wrong, we (decons) go to them and tell them to stop, we offer counceling both in and out of the church. If the person does not change, they are stripped of all duties in the church. I don't think anyone has been asked by the paster not to come back to the church, but they have been made very unwelcomed by the members. For instance. We had a decon who was also a school board member who became addicted to pornogrophy. His wife brought the problem to the paster. He was spending much of his income on it and it was causing a financial strain. He was counceled by the paster (I think) and several other decons, but refused to stop. He did not see anything wrong with it. After a few months he was removed from the decon board, his job as a sunday school teacher, he could no longer be a greeter or usher in the church. When they found pornography on his computer at work, he was asked to step down as a school board member. At this time several men felt it was necessary to ask him to find a more liberal place to worship. This was not an offical church group. But no one told them not to. We do not allow people who are openly doing things wrong to work in the church in ANY copacity. Whether it is the preacher or costodian or door greeter. btw. He goes to the Methodist Church now. If homosexuals want to be blind to thier sin, then they have that right. Just like a thief, adulturer, liar or any sinner, they have the ability to stop, to turn from thier ways and to be forgiven of their sin. Are there people who have lied, cheated, stolen in my church? Yes, and lots of them. The difference is when you do something wrong, stop, repent and ask for forgiveness, then you are forgiven. With the gay lifestyle, none of this is done because they do no acknowledge that it is a sin. I think that any preacher who is a Christian and believes in the bible would be convicted to teach against it every time it is brought up. Our precher councels a lot of people who are living in sin every day. Some of them never come to church, but they are taught what is right. As for preacher who do not teach the truth, I don't think they could possibly be a believer and there is a special place in **** for those who lead so many people astray. btw h e l l, is not a cuss word. It's a real place and if they don't change their ways, they're going to find out. A church to me is a lot like a club or fraternity with lots of rules and regulations. People learn the history of the club and why those rules are there. If they don't want to follow the rules, they shouldn't join the club. As for the gun ownership thing. That's just a really bad argument with so many holes I don't have the space to spell them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] Again finding myself agreeing with Chris. Not our place to judge, you cannot lock em out of the churches, but that does not mean you have to like or accept what they are or what they do. [/ QUOTE ] The bible condems the act and the lifestyle. They have already been judged. A church is not a public building. If you don't like what a church teaches or want to live by thier rules, then don't go to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] To say that the Bible was changed and does not contain the same truths that the original texts conveyed, is a pretty bold statement, without giving proof of what was changed. You can cross reference everything in the bible to prove and understand what something you find confusing means. [/ QUOTE ] I belive it is the NKJ version that was recently translated from the origninal Greek, Arabic, and Hebrew thus taking any earlier "misiturpritations" out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] you dont have to like em, and you dont have to be tolerant of them.But the last time I checked freedom of religion applied to everyone.Whats the difference between not gays into a church and not letting blacks into your church? [/ QUOTE ] The difference is God never said being black is an abomination, or that they should be stoned for being black. I also have the freedom of religion. My religion tells me that I should not be blind to sin, but I should preach against it. The bible (NT) says that we (the men of the church) are obligated to enforce discipline within our church if we see something wrong. To deny this is to deny the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted February 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] The difference is God never said being black is an abomination, or that they should be stoned for being black. I also have the freedom of religion. My religion tell me that I should not be blind to sin, but I should preach against it. The bible (NT) says that we (the men of the church) are obligated to enforce discipline within our church if we see something wrong. To deny this is to deny the truth. [/ QUOTE ] I don't say this often but AMEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? You've been busy johnf Some good reading there and I agree...amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted February 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? Well I commend most of you for your opinions on this. A few of you went way off topic and discussed something different from the subject at hand trying to change the story and put words in peoples mouth. I will end with this....The subject church is pretty much saying that if you are gay, they don't care and they want you to attend their church. They are also telling the congregation that they need to be sensitive to the gay community. The thought of a lesbian women teaching my son in Sunday school is stomach turning. This church in my eyes are in the wrong and I won't be any part of it. It is a shame that churches are headed in this direction. Horst, what is happy medium? They have a lot of mosques up here, maybe I oughta attend one of them. I would love to wipe my feet on their rugs anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] You've been busy johnf Some good reading there and I agree...amen [/ QUOTE ] My wife hogs the computer a lot. When I do get on here I feel the need to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you dont have to like em, and you dont have to be tolerant of them.But the last time I checked freedom of religion applied to everyone.Whats the difference between not gays into a church and not letting blacks into your church? [/ QUOTE ] The difference is God never said being black is an abomination, or that they should be stoned for being black. I also have the freedom of religion. My religion tells me that I should not be blind to sin, but I should preach against it. The bible (NT) says that we (the men of the church) are obligated to enforce discipline within our church if we see something wrong. To deny this is to deny the truth. [/ QUOTE ] You know adultry is sin, do you cast out the adulterer who has come to worship asking for forgiveness from our Lord? Do you cast out the thief or the liar who has come to worship? I got news for you, if you do not allow a person who is a sinner to attend, the churches would not have much in the way of attendance. I am a sinner, I admit it, all I can do is try my best to live my life without commiting sins and when I do I ask my God for forgiveness. If you judge me based on my sins, I ask my Lord to have pity on your soul. All I can do. I would not expect any church to not allow me in the door because I am a sinner, but that is what you seem to be saying here. It is NOT our place to close the doors to those who seek God based on how we view them, but at the same time that does not mean we have to accept or condone that persons lifestyle or in any way be SENSITIVE to them based upon their lifestyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: Are the churches going gay or what? Well in this case a happy medium would be somewhere between turning gay yourself and hunting gays down for sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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