slugshooter Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Surprisingly, noone has mentioned the fact that the Bush Administration paid Armstrong Williams $240,000 to "sell" the No Child Left Behind Act to the black community and they have paid Maggie Gallagher $21,500 and Mike McManus $10,000 to promote George Bush's beliefs as far as marriage goes. These activities have been ruled as propaganda and are illegal according to our laws to pay for them with our tax dollars, but somehow, the "liberal" media that hates Bush so much has failed to push this to the forefront and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that none of ya'll heard anything about this on Fox News. Regardless of what you think of Bush, he broke the law.period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. [ QUOTE ] Surprisingly, noone has mentioned the fact that the Bush Administration paid Armstrong Williams $240,000 to "sell" the No Child Left Behind Act to the black community and they have paid Maggie Gallagher $21,500 and Mike McManus $10,000 to promote George Bush's beliefs as far as marriage goes. These activities have been ruled as propaganda and are illegal according to our laws to pay for them with our tax dollars, but somehow, the "liberal" media that hates Bush so much has failed to push this to the forefront and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that none of ya'll heard anything about this on Fox News. Regardless of what you think of Bush, he broke the law.period. [/ QUOTE ] You know what, I don't care what political party you are from or who I voted for, they are all crooked one way or another. You do not get to become president without breaking some laws and you do not stay president for a 2nd term without breaking laws. I voted for Bush ONLY and I stress ONLY because I didn't like what Kerry stood for but Bush is just as crooked as Ted Kennedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. I saw that on the news and obviously it is not something to be proud of. But hey, i bet ya Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, ....and all the others did the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. I wonder what the Dem's did under tha table this past election year too? Two sided coin..they are ALL crooked in one form or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. Yep, I saw it and don't like it one bit! But the bottom line is that the world certainly isn't going to end because of it! Yes it was reported on Fox news and I watched the whole thing! Disgusting is what it is!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyj987 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. Let me start out by debunking the Maggie Gallagher thing. First of all, she SHOULD have disclosed that she did that type of work. However, she is primarily a marriage expert and not a journalist, though she does write a column. She was hired by the Bush Administration to do consulting work---she was NOT paid to write this or that in her column. In her own words from the O'Reilly Factor: "What actually happened is that in 2001, I was approached by HHS officials, who told me, Maggie, we don't have anyone here who's got the expertise. You have on the marriage and social science evidence on its importance. Can you do some brochures for our clients on what parents and why marriage matters? Can you write — help us draft an article for Wade Horn's signature on the social science evidence that marriage matters? And can you attend an in-house meeting with our regional managers..." As I said, she should have known to disclose it, but she did nothing inherently wrong, so I will take her word for it. ----------- Mike McManus was paid $10,000 to train marriage counselors. There is nothing wrong with that--or with a private citizen doing consulting work. However, like Gallagher, he SHOULD have disclosed it. ----------- The two above LOOK bad, but really there is not much to those stories--digging in a little more shows they're barely newsworthy. However, the Armstrong Williams thing is VERY troubling. They purchased air time during his show and aired propaganda and ads featuring Rod Paige. His company was paid to produce propaganda ads for the DOE. That doesn't appear ethical at all. But what REALLY crossed the line is that part of the deal included live, on-air time with DOE officials---THAT is what's really wrong about this. Williams' syndicator has fired him. Bush denied any knowledge of it. I really think Bush is an honest man and did not have any knowledge of it, but anyone in the DOE who did should be fired. Paige is already gone, but any leftover staff that knew should be fired. Like I said, the Gallagher and McManus were simply poor judgement, but NOTHING blatantly unethical. What Armstrong did WAS unethical--and those responsible on the government side of it need to be axed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. I'm still uncertain if what Williams did was actually illegal. As to unethical, why would it be unethical to get paid to promote something that you actually believed in and supported? Seems to me it would be unethical if you were paid to promote something you DID NOT believe in??? Isn't this just another form of lobbying or advertising? I'm open to arguments here if there's some flaw in my logic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. Speaking of DOE marky, did you attempt to shoot any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. I did see something on this on the news not too longback. Pretty sure Mark is again right on track with what I heard. Dont think there was any laws broken in regards to this, just some attempts to make the situation look bad in an attempt to draw negative attention towards this administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. I'm still wondering exactly which law Bush broke???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. [ QUOTE ] I'm still wondering exactly which law Bush broke???? [/ QUOTE ] About the only laws I think he himself broke were back in his younger years, which he has admitted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Surprisingly, noone has mentioned the fact that the Bush Administration paid Armstrong Williams $240,000 to "sell" the No Child Left Behind Act to the black community and they have paid Maggie Gallagher $21,500 and Mike McManus $10,000 to promote George Bush's beliefs as far as marriage goes. These activities have been ruled as propaganda and are illegal according to our laws to pay for them with our tax dollars, but somehow, the "liberal" media that hates Bush so much has failed to push this to the forefront and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that none of ya'll heard anything about this on Fox News. Regardless of what you think of Bush, he broke the law.period. [/ QUOTE ] You know what, I don't care what political party you are from or who I voted for, they are all crooked one way or another. You do not get to become president without breaking some laws and you do not stay president for a 2nd term without breaking laws. I voted for Bush ONLY and I stress ONLY because I didn't like what Kerry stood for but Bush is just as crooked as Ted Kennedy [/ QUOTE ] What about the 14 million Kerry still has from his campain???? Hmmmmmmmmmmm, wonder what he will be doing with this money??? I wish now I would have not deleted that email! GRRRRRRRRRRRRR Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm still wondering exactly which law Bush broke???? [/ QUOTE ] About the only laws I think he himself broke were back in his younger years, which he has admitted to. [/ QUOTE ] Bush's admissions went something along the lines of this " When I was young and foolish I did young and foolish things." Well, you know what, I did foolish things when I was young and so did everyone else, that admission is more along the lines of " I tried it and didn't like it. And I didn't inhale." That was a political admission. An admission would be " Yes, I did snort cocaine, I got high as a kite, but I wouldn't recommend it and I know I was wrong for doing it." or even better " Yes, I was a lush and got a DUI in Maine but it was covered up. " Saying you did foolish things when you were young is an admission of having a normal childhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyj987 Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. [ QUOTE ] I'm still uncertain if what Williams did was actually illegal. As to unethical, why would it be unethical to get paid to promote something that you actually believed in and supported? Seems to me it would be unethical if you were paid to promote something you DID NOT believe in??? Isn't this just another form of lobbying or advertising? I'm open to arguments here if there's some flaw in my logic... [/ QUOTE ] What Williams did was not illegal at all. It was unethical because he was paid to interview certain individuals by the DOE and did NOT disclose that to his listeners. I don't offend easily, but as someone who listens to a TON of talk radio, I'm very upset and think it was a betrayal of his listeners' trust. I'm honestly not sure if the Department of Education broke any laws, but I do not think they did. If what they did is not illegal, it SHOULD be. The government should NOT be in the business of peddling ideas using our tax dollars--whether or not the ideas are right in my opinion. Government play a vital role in giving information to the public, even rightfully so in some cases. However, to use the air waves as they did with Armstrong Williams was an abuse of power. Democrat or Republican, I don't care....heads should roll for what happened with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyj987 Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. [ QUOTE ] Speaking of DOE marky, did you attempt to shoot any? [/ QUOTE ] The only two I saw were borderline for range and uphill from me and wouldn't be a safe shot. In a word, my season....sucked. At least the weather was nice though...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. Paying to promote an agenda with tax dollars is propaganda and illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldksnarc Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. If you get a chance watch "The Clinton Chronicles." Then call Bush crooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. [ QUOTE ] Paying to promote an agenda with tax dollars is propaganda and illegal. [/ QUOTE ] If this were indeed true - every state or local gov't agency that ran an advertement promoting themselves would be in violation of this "illegal" act you're proclaiming. Think about all the federal programs that have promoted it's service and where the money actually came from......ummmmm....that would be taxes. What about the Navy, Army, National Guard and Marines? They promote their agendy via race cars that cost tax payers millions of dollars. Again....what law was broken by the President or his Administration by promoting this or any agenda? I'll go ahead and make this easy for you....there is no law that prevents this or makes it illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Paying to promote an agenda with tax dollars is propaganda and illegal. [/ QUOTE ] If this were indeed true - every state or local gov't agency that ran an advertement promoting themselves would be in violation of this "illegal" act you're proclaiming. Think about all the federal programs that have promoted it's service and where the money actually came from......ummmmm....that would be taxes. What about the Navy, Army, National Guard and Marines? They promote their agendy via race cars that cost tax payers millions of dollars. Again....what law was broken by the President or his Administration by promoting this or any agenda? I'll go ahead and make this easy for you....there is no law that prevents this or makes it illegal. [/ QUOTE ] Tell that to the GAO. the Government Accounting Office, they are the one's who say it is illegal. They might know a little more about it than any of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. [ QUOTE ] Tell that to the GAO. the Government Accounting Office, they are the one's who say it is illegal. They might know a little more about it than any of us. [/ QUOTE ] If what you say is true, then not only the president, but anyone else who has done this should be having charges brought against them. Just dont see that ever happening. This GAO sounds about like the IRS. Another useless misinformed group of idiots drawing checks off our tax dollars . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Tell that to the GAO. the Government Accounting Office, they are the one's who say it is illegal. They might know a little more about it than any of us. [/ QUOTE ] If what you say is true, then not only the president, but anyone else who has done this should be having charges brought against them. Just dont see that ever happening. This GAO sounds about like the IRS. Another useless misinformed group of idiots drawing checks off our tax dollars . [/ QUOTE ] Made a typo, it's the Government Accountability Office, cause even King George and his lackeys have to be held accountable for what they do, wonderful thing about our government, checks and balances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. From USAToday.com [ QUOTE ] Williams' contract was part of a $1 million deal with Ketchum that produced "video news releases" designed to look like news reports. The Bush administration used similar releases last year to promote its Medicare prescription drug plan, prompting a scolding from the Government Accountability Office, which called them an illegal use of taxpayers' dollars. [/ QUOTE ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. [ QUOTE ] wonderful thing about our government, checks and balances. [/ QUOTE ] Yep, we need more people employed by the govt to keep everything in check allright . Pay 20 people with tax dollars to do the job of 3 or 4 , then pay 4 or 5 more to make sure they are doing their job right , then on and on until we have hundreds of thousands of useless federal employees drawing checks coming out of yours and my pockets . Anyone who has ever had to deal with the idiots at the IRS knows exacly what I am talking about. What a waste. Back on the subject at hand as to whether or not the activity was illegal. I watched part of an interview quite a while back I believe on the today show about this with the black guy involved and they had some others people who were also talked with in the interview, and from what I gathered there was no illegal activity despite the claims against those who are being acused in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. So basically the people involved were interviewed and they claim they did nothing illegal so it must not be. And the GAO said they were illegal, but we all know, and lets be honest here, if it were John Kerry as President or Clinton you would be out for blood and impeachment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: I\'ll go ahead and mention it. Sluggo, was not just the armstrong guy they interviewed that I watched, but was also some members of both parties, who were also asked questions about this. It was kind of interesting, but they all seemed to agree that there was no illegal activity. I know for certain that if Kerry and some of the other goons out there really thought there was a case in this and that there was any FACTUAL supportable evidence I am sure an impeachment process or some type of legal action would have already begun. Since it has not, well you figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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