AJ Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 I got to thinking about different cartridges and how they would compare in trajectory and which ones have enough energy to get the job done. I compared 10 different cartridges and plotted the results. I used Remington factory ammo in popular deer cartridges/loads for the data. Here are the cartridges I used: .243 Winchester 100 gr .25-06 Remington 115 gr .260 Remington 140 gr .270 Winchester 130 gr 7-08 Remington 140 gr .280 Remington 150 gr 7mm Remington Magnum 160 gr .308 Winchester 150 gr .30-06 Springfield 165 gr .300 Winchester Magnum 180 gr To be fair, I zeroed all the cartridges to be sighted in 2" high at 100 yards. I was a little suprised to find out there is only 3" of difference in drop between all the cartridges. Here are the trajectories: Ok, so they travel similarly. How about energy? It has often been written that the minimum for whitetail deer is 1,000 ft/lbs of energy. We know this number has a big buffer as many cartridges kill just fine with less than that amount. But what the heck, its a nice round number. Here are the energy levels for the same loads: Hmmm, all of the loads have at least 1,000 ft/lbs of energy at 300 yards. Will the big guns with double that amount kill a deer any deader? Nope, I didn't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison Great post AJ! That is the same thing I have been saying for years! Who needs the recoil, expensive ammo, noise and more ruined meat with the magnums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeramie Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison [ QUOTE ] Who needs the recoil, expensive ammo, noise and more ruined meat with the magnums? [/ QUOTE ] Not to mention the bruised shoulder and detached retina! Great post aj. Ive never seen them lumped together like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison Thanks AJ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J_Owens_66 Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison Well my magnum shooting friends.....take a look at that chart guys, my ole .243 is gettin the job done just as good as the rest. Nice post AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntinsonovagun Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison WOW!!! You went through a lot of work, but really cleared up a bunch of thoughts!! Here is a question for you.....with all your newfound information, what is the smallest gun you would take elk hunting?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison I would say the .260 Rem. It is the ballistic twin to the 6.5x55 Sweede. That round had been popular in Europe to shoot moose. The Europeans have not really gotten the magnumitis like Americans have. A properly designed bullet in a .260 will do an elk in big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntinsonovagun Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison Wow. Sounds like, with different "loads", a .260 is probably the most verstile rifle on the market, generally speaking of course thanks for the diagrams!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modillo Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison i still will take my 7mm rem mag. and an .06 anytime. because i know how to shoot them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robk Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison i have shot and owned the 270 and 25/06 and still shoot the 06 but am in the middle of getting my ducks lined up to build me a 308 in turkish mauser action. my friend just finished his in 243 and it is one shooting machine a four bullet groups was inside 1/2 inch with a turk mauser action and i decided since i have my light weight guns and the 06 is an excellent deer gun or could even go with bear but for elk or bigger i am workng on my first custom 308 and looking forward to shooting it at target and critter rob k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted October 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison First off, welcome to the forums. Dealing with wildcats can significantly reduce the resale value of a gun. Not that many people want them. Because they don't shoot factory ammo, they are not as desirable to some. So that is one thing to keep in mind. I have and shoot a 30-06 AI. I really don't see much improvement over the standard cartridge. Definately not enough to make it worth while. It gets a couple fps increase but not enough to really make a difference. It does slow the brass flow though. Trimming cases is dramatically reduced. you can still shoot factory ammo in a properly chambered Ackley Improved cartridge gun. There should be .001" - .002 crush fit with standard ammo. The 30-338 is pretty much the same (very slight differences only) as the .308 Norma Magnum. Its slightly slower than a 300 Win as the shoulder is not as far forwards, giving the Norma Mag a longer neck. This round was somewhat popular with 1000 yard target shooters as it gave better neck tension than the .300 Win Mag. Some shooters say it is more efficient than the 300 Win Mag and can equal the same velocity with less powder. While this is true, it does not have the same pressure. When they are both loaded to the same pressure, the 30 Win Mag wins. The 300 Win Mag or 300 WSM will do anything the 30-338 will, and a little bit more. As far as power, look at the chart above, each of the cartridges provide adequate power to over 350 yards to cleanly take deer sized game. Most of them will provide enough power at over 500 yards to cleanly take game, but there are very, very few hunters that can make that shot under hunting conditions. Its easy to shoot long range frm a benchrest, but take away the bench and it just got a whoooole lot harder. Forming 30-338 brass is easy, and you have a few options. You can neck up a 7mm Rem Mag, neck down a .338 Win Mag, or just run 300 Win brass in a 30-338 sizing die. It will push the shoulder back enough to allow headspacing off the shoulder (belted magnums headspace off the belt) and the case will fireform to the chamber when it gets shot. If you are trying to build a one gun for deer, elk, moose, etc, the standard 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, etc will do what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superguide Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison Was talking to a guiding buddy and now the big rage amongst the American guys coming up is the (sacro-cranial shot) danged if I know where that is-there are times you could shoot a fawn with an elephant gun and it will run a few steps. A shot through both lungs will KILL any animal in a very short distance-it's the biggest easiest target and you don't need to hit them there with a rocket launcher. From what I've seen 99 percent of guys-me included-can't even push the accuracy limits of the equipment they are using. You see guys spend thousands of dollars and obsess about shrinking their groups when for most hunting situations they are already shooting more than good enough. The biggest thing I feel is to know your limitations and shoot and hunt within them. If you have trouble shooting deer at 200 yards don't spend gobs of money trying to shoot one at 600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted October 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison [ QUOTE ] ... A shot through both lungs will KILL any animal in a very short distance-it's the biggest easiest target and you don't need to hit them there with a rocket launcher. [/ QUOTE ] I don't hunt with guys that take head shots on big game. I have had to go after too many that had jaws and noses blown off that were not going to die anytime soon, to condone those shots. [ QUOTE ] From what I've seen 99 percent of guys-me included-can't even push the accuracy limits of the equipment they are using. ...The biggest thing I feel is to know your limitations and shoot and hunt within them. If you have trouble shooting deer at 200 yards don't spend gobs of money trying to shoot one at 600. [/ QUOTE ] You hit the X-Ring with this post! A gun that shoots 2 MOA in teh hands of an expert is better than a gun that shoots 1/4 MOA in an amateur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotupdeer Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison I still like my '06. Cheap ammo, a wide bullet selection, the ability to kill every living creature in North America, and many other factors have always made it my favorite, and will make it my favorite for the rest of my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SavageTaylor Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison I used my T/C Encore in .260 Rem last fall to harvest my Bull Moose & my Cow Elk. The .260 Rem has proven itself to me for sure. My Moose was harvested with a single shot @ 165 yards, the Cow Elk took two shots @ 275 yards, it was dead on it's feet & unable to run off with the rest of the herd, but took it's time going down, had I been more patient the first shot would of been enough. --Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsman2500 Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison i think i'll stick with my browning 7 mag. seems to be doing the job. why change?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun_300 Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison I like my .300 Win Mag, i want to get a 30-06, then a .260 for field hunting, i think that would be a deadly cartridge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanH Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison Man thats awesome thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Re: Cartridge Comparison Thanks for those charts AJ! I do like bigger guns, but not necessarily magnums. I'm using a .30-06 right now. When I get an Encore, I'm looking at either another .30-06 or a .280 as my main caliber. But, I really want a .260 also. Very versital caliber. You can hunt everything from varmints up to moose with it. I shot my brother's Savage .260 and the recoil is not noticeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Cartridge Comparison [ QUOTE ] What are you going to do when that buck of a lifetime walks out a say 300 yards. [/ QUOTE ] If I have a clean shot at it, I would not hesitate to shoot him at 300 yards with a 243 Win. I know my abilities very well, and that of the cartridge. After doping the wind, I would put the crosshairs just over his back, adjust for wind, and touch the trigger. [ QUOTE ] You gonna have enough confidence in your 243 then? [/ QUOTE ] Yep! [ QUOTE ] If you can't take the recoil, you're probably not shooting well enough to make decent shots to where you do not ruin any meat. [/ QUOTE ] Most often the inability to shoot well comes from too much recoil. [ QUOTE ] Also, it has been proven and documented that a 375 H&H does no more damage to meat than a 30-06, though [/ QUOTE ] Apples and oranges. Look at the velocities of the popular magnum cartridges for deer sized game. They run a bit over 3000 fps for most bullet combinations. The .338 Win Mag, .350 Rem Mag, and the .375 H&H all shoot their typical bullet weights under 3000 fps. Actually most run betwen 2700 and 2800 fps. Hmmm, where have I heard that velocity before, oh wait, its in the .30-06. So no wonder the damage is similar. Unless you think that larger bullets actually cause more damage, in which case you are sadly mistaken. I am not anti magnum. Some do have their place where they shine above the standard cartridges. I have a few magnums my self. I use them regularly. I have shot many deer with the 7mm Rem Mag, .300 Wby, and the .338 Win Mag. But in every case the deer were no deader than the many I have shot with the 243, 25-06, 260, 308, 30-06, or the 45/70. While elk, moose, and big bears have been taken, and will continue to be taken with the standard cartridges, a magnum can be advantageous in the west where the horizon is a long ways out there. They will allow the practiced shooter to place a bullet into the vitals at a longer range and still provide more than enough energy to get the job done. Another benefit is they will, when fed the properly designed bullet, drive through more tissue to reach the vitals and make a clean kill shot. Such as a hard quartering away shot, frontal shot, or going through big massive shoulders. As a one size fits all, I would take a standard cartridge anytime. The majority of my hunting is whitetails at distances under 150 yards. Is a magnum better in this circumstance? Nope. If I hunted elk and moose more often than deer, I would then recommend a magnum, but a .338 Win Mag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLH Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Re: Cartridge Comparison First off, thanks for the charts. Second, I have killed many deer with a 300 mag in 170gr. and dropped them in their tracks. I switched to a .270 in 130gr and have killed just as many deer and dropped all but one in their tracks (the one ran 30 yards). The .270 has less recoil and noise and as long as if the hunter has the capabilities, smaller caliber rifles are just as much and probably more efficient than larger rifles. There seem to be less margin for error with a smaller caliber - i.e. less recoil\weight. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Re: Cartridge Comparison [ QUOTE ] There is no margin for error with any firearm that can be fired from the shoulder. [/ QUOTE ] You said it Stan, no matter what caliber you are shooting, the bullet still needs to go through the vitals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modillo Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Re: Cartridge Comparison listen guys if you cant take the recoil of a magnums they are too much for you guys out there , the 280 is the same as the 7mm rem mag. if you can stand the recoil of an .06 you can stand the recoil of a 7mm rem mag or a 300 win mag. and the 243 can shoot out to 300 yrds if youy know what your doing.i know for a fact that the 7mm 260 280 270 30.06 300 win mag 300 savage 375 all can do it evan a 22 can be shot out over 300 yards it evan states ( on the box of the 22 lr) thats a 22 long rifle can be shot 1760 yrds or 1 mile. i was stated ouyt on a 22 then worked up to the heavy guns, by time i was 11 years old i was shooting a 30.06. i knew the recoil was not bad. oh hey AJ may i ask a favor from you? could you show the ballistics on a 7mm rem mag in 150 gr in stead of 160 please. or maybe both. thanks aj modillo p.s. if any one has any problems to what i have just said pleaze email me at either [email protected] or [email protected] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Re: Cartridge Comparison If you click here you can do all the ballistics you want. There is about 1" difference between the 150 and 160 gr when both are sighted in 2" high at 100 yards. This goes to show there is no magic bullet weight that will perform head and shoulders above others in the same cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modillo Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: Cartridge Comparison i only use the 150s because they are 1, a bit faster and 2, they are cheaper then the 160. all though the 160 hits harder but not much more than the 150. and thank you very much aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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