Ohiobucks Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I'm guessing you shoot a traditional longbow or recurve as well Doc. Finger shooter, with no sights? No compound bows for you, because, in your eyes, that would give someone an edge during "bow" season. Maybe states should impose different bow seasons all together. Real bow season, then compound bow season, then crossbow/muzzleloader/shotgun/rifle season. But only if it is after you're done with "your" woods. Ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippyswamp Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Doc, Snap your neck and then we'll see how you feel about crossbows. It's not even close to a firearm, of any kind. If it were not for being able to use a crossbow, my hunting would be done. I hunt from a standing ATV in blinds, and can only shoot to the front or left side. So if I were a betting man, you would change your tune in a big hurry, god forbid if something were to happen. But put the shoe on the other foot once. I put alot of hours into hunting, and why should I be able to only hunt the nine day season here in WI, or any state for that matter? The chances of getting a deer close during our nine day, slim at best. It's enough to get one during the gun season with a firearm. Check in Doc. and open your eyes to others choices, or needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I agree with mike.....Leave it to the disabled and 14 and under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 All I can is WOW !! .. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I agree with mike.....Leave it to the disabled and 14 and under. My wife says I act like I am 8 years old at times so it is okay for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 One thing I do not understand is how someone can compare a recurve or long bow to a compound and consider it in the same vane as the comparison between a compound and a crossbow. In my early years of hunting, and just shooting, archery equipment, there were no compound bows and, there were some archers who used sight pins. The poundage of the bow they shot depended on physical strength. Along came the compound, amidst a deafening outcry, and nothing basically changed except the strength needed to hold at full draw and increased arrow speed due to the stored energy. Although there is a little more leeway in range estimation and the profusion of sighting systems makes accuracy a little more certain, there is no basic change from a recurve or longbow. Enter the crossbow (actually, reenter the crossbow) and the basic concept of arrow propulsion does not change but the act of aiming and shooting are another matter. When aiming a crossbow the front and rear sites are mounted on the same, rigid, surface. Also, while aiming, the stock allows for one to take a solid rest. No need to come to full draw at the moment of truth or worry about having to hold at full draw. The trigger release is also mounted firmly to the stock making for a much cleaner release and the bolt is guided during the power stroke. Comparable to shooting a compound? Not even close. Yes, you can teach someone to become accurate at twenty yards or so with a compound in about an hour and maybe even with a recurve or longbow. With a sighted in crossbow it would take about five minutes, or less. Now, the boys from Ohio, let me ask you a couple of questions. If Ohio outlawed crossbows this year, just how many of those crossbow guys do you think would take up a vertical bow? Would your archery harvest figures drop by half? Would the state's deer management strategy change? Once again, I have no issue with those who are disabled or infirm from using a crossbow during archery season and most, if not all, states allow that. As for the very young, there may be a greater issue here as to the age at which one should start hunting. My children tagged along with me when they were as young as two and the hunt was more catered to their experience than my success. I really see no need for anyone under the age of twelve to be toting a weapon and only then under supervision. If they can not hold it and shoot it on their own, be it firearm or bow, they should not be hunting with it. As for being in "my" woods and shooting "my" deer, well, with millions of acres of public land here in Montana there are a lot of woods to share and more deer than the experts even have a clue about. If anything gets my deer here it will probably have sharp claws and teeth. Now, if they say it is legal in your state to lock and load that crossbow during archery season and that's what you are about.....what are you waiting for? Get out there and experience the thrill of the hunt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 :confused: Doc, so what does this all boil down to for you? Crossbows should be allowed during gun season or a special crossbow season only? All people hear when you argue that is, "I don't want to share "my" woods or "my" deer." Pretty dang sad if you ask me. Some might call it a bit selfish as well.... Yes sir, I believe that just as you people have selfishly excluded gunhunters from you crossbow season, I have the same rights to be exclusionary when I see people trying to wedge there way into specialty seasons. Are you willing to share your woods and your deer with the gunners? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Doc, Snap your neck and then we'll see how you feel about crossbows. It's not even close to a firearm, of any kind. If it were not for being able to use a crossbow, my hunting would be done. I hunt from a standing ATV in blinds, and can only shoot to the front or left side. So if I were a betting man, you would change your tune in a big hurry, god forbid if something were to happen. But put the shoe on the other foot once. I put alot of hours into hunting, and why should I be able to only hunt the nine day season here in WI, or any state for that matter? The chances of getting a deer close during our nine day, slim at best. It's enough to get one during the gun season with a firearm. Check in Doc. and open your eyes to others choices, or needs. If I were to have such a condition, I would relegate my hunting to gun season. By the way that's not just some theoretical answer. I am probably within a year or two of having to give up archery because of the ravages of age. No I am not sitting around feeling sorry for myself nor am I demanding that everyone make any special accomodations for my condition. I am just honestly fessing up to the fact that I have some new limitations. I am also recognizing the fact that no crossbow will ever make me a "bowhunter" again. I will have only the abilities of a gun hunter, and that is the weapon that I will use until I can't even get out there at all. I am a rather independent sort. However, let me clarify that while that is a personal decision on my part, I have no serious problem with having honestly impaired hunters using alternative weapons. If the disability is stringently defined, the number of such people would not even be noticed. That's a whole different situation than perfectly fit people trying to weasel their way into bowseasons through the use of x-bows. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Here's a link from a New York group that opposes crossbows. While talking to some members of this group you get the term "Cross-Rifles" used to describe a Crossbow. http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/New_Folder/xbow.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yes sir, I believe that just as you people have selfishly excluded gunhunters from you crossbow season, I have the same rights to be exclusionary when I see people trying to wedge there way into specialty seasons. Are you willing to share your woods and your deer with the gunners? Doc Don't I recall you saying that you are against the ever-increasing selfishness of hunters in general, when it comes to things like posting land and establishing food plots? So, just to keep me and the others straight. you are against food plots because they're selfish in drawing deer from your neighbors, but you are for exclusionary seasons because you're selfish about keeping your deer to yourself? Is that about right? Or am I guilty of a learning difficulty here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Here's the regulations in the State that I live in regarding this matter: http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/30419.html Modified Archer Permit This permit allows qualified people to hunt big or small game with a legal bow that is equipped with a device to hold it in a drawn and cocked position. This permit does not allow the use of a cross-bow. To qualify for a Modified Archer Permit a person must be permanently physically unable to draw and hold a legal bow. Modified Crossbow Permit This permit allows qualified people to hunt big or small game with a crossbow that has been specifically modified with a device that only allows it to be discharged (fired) by means of a breath tube. This permit does not allow the use of an unmodified crossbow. To qualify for a Modified Crossbow Permit a person must be permanently physically unable to hold or draw a legal bow or to fire a legal bow that has been modified to hold and release the string. If a person can pull the trigger on a gun, he or she will not qualify for a Modified Crossbow Permit. So as it is now my Father, who is 76 yrs old, can not hunt during the archery season in this State. Due to Bursitus he can not draw a Vertical Bow in the first place, so the modified archers permit does him no good, and he is not disabled enough to qualify for a Crossbow permit. Due to the regulations as they are now and narrow minded people who believe nothing should change...it's simply screw him he's out. I believe it's quite evident theres a fear among certain people that if they give an inch on this regulation that they risk allowing everyone to use a Crossbow during archery season. Thier willing to exclude people and tell them "It's time for you to give it up...during My Archery Season if you cant draw a Vertical Bow". I dont believe anyone has the right to say: "If you cant do it the way I do your done and you should just rifle hunt". IMHO my Father, who has hunted all of his life, has earned the right to use any weapon he wants to during any season...He's not allowed to. He's being told by someone else that: "It's time you give it up during Archery season". I would at least like to see the regulations changed in this State to allow him to have the right to use a Crossbow. I geuss in some peoples minds I'm asking to much to give him that right. This Bias of some Archers not to allow certain Crossbow hunters is not based on the facts of the weapon or what it's capable of. They wont admit to the truth of why they fight so hard against it. They F.E.A.R. losing Thier season:rolleyes: The entire reasoning of those narrow minded people is based in F.E.A.R....Future Events Appearing Real. They fear that the woods will fill up with Crossbow hunters...it's that simple and it's not based on any fact that will happen at all. If you can base that fear in fact...prove it. I'd love to see how you can prove that you will be swamped with Crossbow hunters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Don't I recall you saying that you are against the ever-increasing selfishness of hunters in general, when it comes to things like posting land and establishing food plots? So, just to keep me and the others straight. you are against food plots because they're selfish in drawing deer from your neighbors, but you are for exclusionary seasons because you're selfish about keeping your deer to yourself? Is that about right? Or am I guilty of a learning difficulty here? I'm not sure I ever said that about food plots, but I would agree that if your motives for putting in food plots are based on pulling deer from your neighbor's land, then that does strike me as something that is basically wrong. I don't think that deer hunting should become a test of who can spend the most money luring deer away from the other. As far as posting, no, you do not recall me saying anything about posting being a selfish act. It's an unfortunate fact of life but in most cases it is a justified act of self protection. By the way, if this thread gets hijacked toward a food plot discussion or arguement on posting, let me say right now that I was NOT the one who brought that subject into this thread. As far as its relevance to the crossbow discussion, there really is none. And yes, I am for special seasons being exclusionary and limited to those weapons that they were established for. That is the nature of "special seasons". Now let me ask you a question. If it were proposed that your crossbow season in Ohio be opened up to include guns, would you support that? Because you are either non-exclusionary or you're not........right? You wouldn't want to appear to be selfish when it comes to keeping your fellow gun hunters out of your crossbow season would you? Give it over to them.......be a good unselfish guy. Oh, and by the way, I promise not to keep all the deer to myself. I'll be sure to let them all go when our bowseason is over. I assume you guys in Ohio will do the same when you are through with them and your crossbow season is done. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 They fear that the woods will fill up with Crossbow hunters...it's that simple and it's not based on any fact that will happen at all. If you can base that fear in fact...prove it. I'd love to see how you can prove that you will be swamped with Crossbow hunters. I'd love to see how you could prove that we wouldn't. It sure is a completely unnecessary and frivolous gamble that I'm not willing to take with our season. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I'm not sure I ever said that about food plots, but I would agree that if your motives for putting in food plots are based on pulling deer from your neighbor's land, then that does strike me as something that is basically wrong. I don't think that deer hunting should become a test of who can spend the most money luring deer away from the other. As far as posting, no, you do not recall me saying anything about posting being a selfish act. It's an unfortunate fact of life but in most cases it is a justified act of self protection. By the way, if this thread gets hijacked toward a food plot discussion or arguement on posting, let me say right now that I was NOT the one who brought that subject into this thread. As far as its relevance to the crossbow discussion, there really is none. Wonder if a refresher is in order? While the food plot topic may hold no relevance, the mentality of what you are calling selfishness does. Might want to take a look back to remind yourself what you have said in the past. I will make it easy for you, take a look on pages 5, 6, and 7 http://www.realtree.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32744&highlight=selfish. If crossbows add a few hunters in places where they are becoming legal as archery gear, then I guess that could potentially be a good things since everyone of us as hunters should be concerned that the numbers of hunters in the country are supposedly on the decline. They fear that the woods will fill up with Crossbow hunters...it's that simple and it's not based on any fact that will happen at all. If you can base that fear in fact...prove it. I'd love to see how you can prove that you will be swamped with Crossbow hunters. Funny Gary really, there was a spike in crossbow sales here immediately after they made them legal gear for archery season, however from what I have heard the sales of crossbows tapered off dramatically since. Our archery harvest numbers have really not changed that much either, maybe a little surprising. I'd love to see how you could prove that we wouldn't. It sure is a completely unnecessary and frivolous gamble that I'm not willing to take with our season. Doc Might take a look at harvest numbers elsewhere that have had similar type of changes implemented from both before and after the implementation of crossbows as archery tackle. Guess if you could take numbers from enough places, you should be able to get an average range and make an estimation within reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 William, Those numbers are what would help people make an informed and factual decision. Good read on your link as well;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'm not sure I ever said that about food plots, but I would agree that if your motives for putting in food plots are based on pulling deer from your neighbor's land, then that does strike me as something that is basically wrong. Now that William has refreshed your memory..... As far as posting, no, you do not recall me saying anything about posting being a selfish act. OK, you're right. I didn't remember specifically, but William did. By the way, if this thread gets hijacked toward a food plot discussion or arguement on posting, let me say right now that I was NOT the one who brought that subject into this thread. As far as its relevance to the crossbow discussion, there really is none. Cool. Duly noted, it was I who "hijacked," however, it does hold relevance when you admitted that the crossbow issue at hand comes down to sharing the deer. This was just an analogy. Now, I'm sure you'll debate that point too, but I think we made our point here. Now let me ask you a question. If it were proposed that your crossbow season in Ohio be opened up to include guns, would you support that? Support? You mean, actually campaign against it? No. Would I be in favor of that happening? Of course not for reasons I list below. I would probably stop hunting deer, or do it on a very limited basis if that law were to pass. If law makers deemed that as law, I would just choose to do something else, probably go back to hunting birds. Because you are either non-exclusionary or you're not........right? Well sir, no, and only because we have a fundamental difference in opinion about these seasons. There's no comparison as how a deer herd reacts to guns vs. bows. Crossbow, compound, recurve, whatever. That's what I believe, it's clear that you don't. That's cool. Might have to agree to disagree there. Let me put it this way.....if gun hunters hunted like bowhunters, i.e. stealthy, stand hunting, etc. and dropped tactics like driving, still hunting, party hunting, etc. then yeah, I wouldn't mind sharing the woods with them because it probably wouldn't affect the deer too much. If it came down to the fact that you were allowed to hunt deer with guns from September to February, I would most assuredly stop hunting deer, and that would be for a number of reasons. You wouldn't want to appear to be selfish when it comes to keeping your fellow gun hunters out of your crossbow season would you? Give it over to them.......be a good unselfish guy. I think I already admitted to the fact that I'm a selfish person when it comes to deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 You both have too much time on your hands......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Wonder if a refresher is in order? While the food plot topic may hold no relevance, the mentality of what you are calling selfishness does. Might want to take a look back to remind yourself what you have said in the past. I will make it easy for you, take a look on pages 5, 6, and 7 http://www.realtree.com/forums/showt...hlight=selfish. Yes, as I indicated in my prior reply, that food plot quote sounded like something I would say and agree with...... so what? Your point is still pretty fuzzy. Are you advocating opening up your x-bow seasons to any weapon just to display that you are not selfish? Apparently not. You accuse me of selfishness and then exclude gunhunters from your crossbow seasons. So what exactly is your point? Your selfishness is better than my selfishness???? Let me put it this way.....if gun hunters hunted like bowhunters, i.e. stealthy, stand hunting, etc. and dropped tactics like driving, still hunting, party hunting, etc. then yeah, I wouldn't mind sharing the woods with them because it probably wouldn't affect the deer too much. If it came down to the fact that you were allowed to hunt deer with guns from September to February, I would most assuredly stop hunting deer, and that would be for a number of reasons. And yet for reasons important to you, you have decided to be exclusionary. Further, you apparently have set limits on how people would have to hunt before you would not exclude them from your x-bow season. Well, that's fair enough, and I choose to do the same thing. Only, for some reason when I do it, it's selfish and when you do it it's not. I think we all recognize the need for limits on special seasons as far as what weapons should be allowed. I also believe that you mis-spoke when you indicated that such limitations are a sign of selfishness. Your own words seem to indicate that. Special seasons were established to be exclusionary. If you don't believe in that principle then there is no need for you to suppoort the concept of ANY special seasons. But as long as you do, don't start singling out those that don't believe crossbows belong in bowseasons as somehow being more selfish than yourself. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Yes, as I indicated in my prior reply, that food plot quote sounded like something I would say and agree with...... so what? Your point is still pretty fuzzy. Are you advocating opening up your x-bow seasons to any weapon just to display that you are not selfish? Apparently not. You accuse me of selfishness and then exclude gunhunters from your crossbow seasons. So what exactly is your point? Your selfishness is better than my selfishness???? Guess you are asking me this? I don't recall calling anyone selfish here nor saying anything about exclusionary seasons.:confused: Seems a bit hypocritical in my opinion to suggest that those who hunt one way(food plots, or as you call it those engaging in "food plot wars") are being selfish in yet you are not open to the ideas of new changes that may well bring more new hunters into the sport for what you yourself admit are selfish reasons. Seems I recall your past concerns posted about declining hunter numbers, is this the way to help by being selfish?:confused: Sure crossbow hunting may not be as challenging as hunting with a compound, and hunting with a compound is not as challenging as hunting with a recurve, and hunting with a recurve is not as challenging as hunting with a slingshot; but comparing a crossbow to a gun for intents of special seasons is really comparing apples to oranges, there just is no comparing. You are talking the difference in being able to shoot to 35 yards versus the ability to potentially shoot as far as you can see with your naked eyes, just a little difference dont you think. Would also have to wonder if you would agree that the pressure from rifles/gun hunting versus the pressure from a crossbow would be equivalent? In my opinion this particular point of this debate is on its way to becoming a pretty pointless argument really unless you just like to argue.:rolleyes: With keeping on topic here, if you pull a search on this topic you will see it has come up a time or two in the past too, there have been some pretty good debates. I have to admit before Tennessee passed it changes allowing crossbows, I was not really all that thrilled, however I really do not think it has made much difference. Harvest numbers for archery have surely not had any significant changes here as a result of the change to allow crossbows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Doc, OK, so we're both selfish when it comes to sharing our seasons and deer, cool. I'm willing to give up bowhunting if the state changed the gun/crossbow season, your are not willing to do that. Are we straight on that? So, going way back to page 1 or 2 of this thread. You don't want crossbows in your woods during your regular bow season because they are essentially the same as using a gun, even though they don't make near the sound, and they don't have near the range. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 http://www.realtree.com/forums/showt...hlight=selfish. ..Your point is still pretty fuzzy. Doc Here's one De-Fuzzer for you: It kind of falls in line with the guy who posts up huge amounts of land just so he can have it all to himself. This new kind of "I'm gonna get mine and the heck with you" attitude that has crept into hunting has really been quite destructive to the sport. You talk about hunter against hunter .... this is the epitome of that kind of thing. Doc If you need more assistance I'm here for you...Hunter helping Hunter kind of thing;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 http://www.realtree.com/forums/showt...hlight=selfish. Here's one De-Fuzzer for you: If you need more assistance I'm here for you...Hunter helping Hunter kind of thing;) Gary, come on now. That clearly has nothing to do with "real" bowhunters, vs. crossbow hunters. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 No one has touched on the fact that the crossgun is not drawn in the presence of the animal. That is a MAJOR factor. Would you rack your slide or pump your shotgun or crank your lever with the deer at 30 yards? I think not. That point should not be ignored. To me that puts it in the pre cocked( like a rifle) scoped(like a rifle) shoulder fired( like a rifle)category. The range is greater with recurves, longbow and compounds. That is not an issue to me. I feel there will not be new hunters, just crossover gun hunters who will call themselves archers. There are guns that can shoot arrows, is that archery? I am NOT saying crossguns should'nt be allowed, just put it in firearms season. Let Vets hunt with whatever and wherever they want. Lesson the qualifications for a modified crossgun permit in NY for hurt or older archers. A crossgun can be put down and picked up years later to have it hit the bullesye when fired. Can you do that with a recurve,longbow or compound? When you get home from the pro shop with your BOW all set up, you still need to practice to find out where you will hit. My Marlin/Winchesters have not been adjusted in the 25 years I have been shooting them. My Mathews sight gets adjusted annually and it takes me a week or more to get back where I am, ruining fletching from close shots in the target every archery season. That applies to people who do not shoot year round. Why stop at crossguns? Lets have a Atlatl season, spear season and even a rock season. Those are primitive weapons...right? Who is to say I cannot hunt with them? I am all for new hunters getting into and staying in the game. But there needs to be standards and minimums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Awwwww maaaaannnnn, we have another guy in Doc's corner...........crap. No one has touched on the fact that the crossgun is not drawn in the presence of the animal. That is a MAJOR factor. Matter of opinion. You still have to move, so for me, it's not that big of a deal. The range is greater with recurves, longbow and compounds. The range is greater with crossbows you mean? Maybe, but not by much. I can't really say as I've only shot a crossbow a couple of times. To me they are the same as a good compound. That is not an issue to me. I feel there will not be new hunters, just crossover gun hunters who will call themselves archers. So it's a pride issue with you? I mean, who cares what they call themselves? There's tons of delusional people in the world. There are guns that can shoot arrows, is that archery? I don't know. Is it? Who cares? Because the states that allow them want to make it easy and apply a generic term like "archery season" instead of listing "recurve, longbow, compound, crossbow season." I am NOT saying crossguns should'nt be allowed, just put it in firearms season. But, they aren't firearms, not even close. Really, the only similarity is how you hold the weapon. A crossgun can be put down and picked up years later to have it hit the bullesye when fired. Can you do that with a recurve,longbow or compound? Back in '06 when I was recovering from my abdominal surgery, my buddy Tom loaned me a crossbow. I shot it like 10 times. I couldn't hit anything with that thing. It was big, heavy and difficult to cock. When I did shoot it, it had as much recoil as a gun! I gave it back to him the next time I saw him. It was much easier to just wait until I could pull my bow back and practice a litttle until it wore me out, which was about 3 shots at first. Although Doc already said I can't pick up my bow and shoot bullseyes in a year or so, yes, I'm pretty sure I could put my bow down for a few years, pick it up and be shooting good groups within 20 arrows. I think a lot of guys way overemphasize how difficult shooting with archery tackle really is. Maybe that's because I have always shot quality stuff, maybe that's because I have some natural ability, I don't know, but it's really not that difficult to shoot a modern compound I don't think. That applies to people who do not shoot year round. LOL--no, it really doesn't. Not in my case at least. But, once again, I'm a liar in Doc's eyes, so I may be to you too. Why stop at crossguns? Lets have a Atlatl season, spear season and even a rock season. Those are primitive weapons...right? Who is to say I cannot hunt with them? Sure, why not? The more the merrier. I think some states allow you to use spears. Cool. If that's what you want to use, cool with me. I don't understand your point. I am all for new hunters getting into and staying in the game. But there needs to be standards and minimums. There are, but the new standards and minimums upset a lot of folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 But, they aren't firearms, not even close. Really, the only similarity is how you hold the weapon. Nope, not similar at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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