Tominator Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Nope, not similar at all.... I wasn't talking to you. *On top of that, I can't read most of that list, but what I could read lists physical characteristics of the weapon, not ballistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) physical characteristics equal....ease of use....no? Can you read it now? No,,, didn't think so. This is in the link that GW provided on page 8 http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/New_Folder/xbow.htm Edited February 5, 2009 by ruttinbuc figured I might as wll add the link, say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 No one has touched on the fact that the crossgun... BOOM....theres what I've experienced when talking to other members of the NYB. Is it the purpose of a Bowhunting organization to attempt the change, of the REAL NAME of a weapon, so that it adds more leverage to thier views? Sorry about that loud sound at the start of my reply...I was shooting my CROSSBOW:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 physical characteristics equal....ease of use....no? http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/New_Folder/xbow.htm Ease of use, yeah, they're easier to use, probably, really can't say, I haven't used them too much. So that's the beef? They're easier to use? Can you read it now? No,,, didn't think so. This is in the link that GW provided on page 8 Wow. You're just plain getting nasty I think. What's up with that? So I missed the link on page 8. Put a smiley dude after that if you're kidding around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Nice link there ruttinbuc...I posted that so other people could see what I believe to be this States largest bowhunting organizations opinion on CROSSBOWS. Notice one thing...they dont make the public statement on there that a CROSSBOW has had a name change. HMMMMM they wont make it public on thier webpage but I can gaurantee you at any Sports Show or talking to just about every member of that group you'll hear the term Crossgun or Crossrifle. As if thier stance against the CROSSBOW does not have enough merit to stand by itself...they have to add the attempt to leach support by bowhunters who could go either way. I enjoy the Bowhunting season just as much as anyone else in this State...and the sound of a CrossBOW going off, if it ever becomes possible for people who want to use them, wont scare deer. The use of this weapon in an archery season does not compare to the use of any weapon using smokeless or black powder in thier respective seasons......SOUND does make a difference between the seasons and the weapons used in each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Ease of use, yeah, they're easier to use, probably, really can't say, I haven't used them too much. So that's the beef? They're easier to use? Wow. You're just plain getting nasty I think. What's up with that? So I missed the link on page 8. Put a smiley dude after that if you're kidding around. Getting a little touchy, are we? ,..pardon me for forgetting the :D:D No nasty intended... The ease of use is the beef. That is the big point of the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 If 1 bowhunter quits bowhunting because a crossbow is allowed in their archery season, but 4 new hunters take up the sport because they can use a crossbow, then our sport as a whole is still better off. We need more hunters in general to take an interest, to defend our overall hunting rights and stand up to misinformed lawmakers trying to take away our hunting rights all together. BTW, I don't use a crossbow, but I would hunt right along side a guy/gal or kid that wants to use one. Chris calls himself selfish when it comes to deer hunting, but I don't buy it. I'm not selfish either, I never would have invited him to hunt with me in the first place, or continue to invite him to hunt the land I had/have access to if I was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 The range is greater with crossbows you mean? Maybe, but not by much. I can't really say as I've only shot a crossbow a couple of times. To me they are the same as a good compound. Hummm...Sounds like you need to practice more with your compound Chris. Sorry...couldn't resist. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Hummm...Sounds like you need to practice more with your compound Chris. Sorry...couldn't resist. :D Well Al, what do you expect from a guy that doesn't practice with his compound bow year round? Did he tell you that he missed his first shot on that behemoth of a buck he ended up tagging last Oct? Yeah, missed! 2nd shot missed low as well - aiming at lungs, but accidentally took out the heart. Put a crossbow in his hands instead and that deer would have never stood a chance once he got within 80 yards of Chris' tree..... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 LMAO---OK, I'll come clean. 90% of what I've been arguing is tongue in cheek. I will say this, and then I'm done with the banter. If your state currently does not allow crossbow hunting during your regular archery season, and you're worried that the addition of crossbow hunters will ruin your season, try not to worry. I know, easy for me to say because I don't live where you do, and that's true, but I do live in a state that has always allowed the crossbow, and it's really not that big of a deal. Pennsylvania hunters, I dare say you won't see much difference in how your future bow seasons progress. And Tom, I'm being totally honest when I say, I really don't like gun season, and part of that reason is because I feel the gun hunters are "getting one over" on me. That equals selfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 The movement associated with a cross bow is NO WHERE near the movement of a archer. A Archer has the bow pulling back towards the riser regardless of let off. The crossgun has that won, hands down. What about if the crossbow hunter does not take the shot? The safety is switched on and the weapon is ready to go again. The Archer needs to let down, 2X times the movement...What bow has a magnified scope on it? Muzzleloaders are not considered firearms either. At least not by the ATFE, if they were, you would have to fill out a 4473 to buy one. More similarity to a firearm than a bow. The projectile is a bolt, not a arrow which limits is range, like handgun. Pre cocked, like a gun, scope mounted, like a gun,shoulder fired weapon...like a gun is shot with a minimum of movement, not even close to the archer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 And Tom, I'm being totally honest when I say, I really don't like gun season, and part of that reason is because I feel the gun hunters are "getting one over" on me. That equals selfish. :confused: I don't even know who you are anymore. Find a new place to hunt next year...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 :confused: I don't even know who you are anymore. Find a new place to hunt next year...... Lmbo ... :D That's funny right there .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 The movement associated with a cross bow is NO WHERE near the movement of a archer. A Archer has the bow pulling back towards the riser regardless of let off. The crossgun has that won, hands down. What about if the crossbow hunter does not take the shot? The safety is switched on and the weapon is ready to go again. The Archer needs to let down, 2X times the movement...What bow has a magnified scope on it? Muzzleloaders are not considered firearms either. At least not by the ATFE, if they were, you would have to fill out a 4473 to buy one. More similarity to a firearm than a bow. The projectile is a bolt, not a arrow which limits is range, like handgun. Pre cocked, like a gun, scope mounted, like a gun,shoulder fired weapon...like a gun is shot with a minimum of movement, not even close to the archer. Crossgun? Holy smokes...... What is the effective range of a modern crossbow? Do you know? I'll tell you, it is not any different than that of a modern compound bow. What is the effective range of a modern muzzleloader? Do you know? I'll tell you, 200 yard shots are not out of the question. No comparison between the two whatsoever. None. This discussion is beyond ridiculous. I'm done..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 http://www.realtree.com/forums/showt...hlight=selfish. Here's one De-Fuzzer for you: If you need more assistance I'm here for you...Hunter helping Hunter kind of thing;) Yes, that is one of my quotes, and I still don't get your point. Are you trying to change the subject with irrelevant remarks? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Yes, that is one of my quotes, and I still don't get your point. Are you trying to change the subject with irrelevant remarks? Doc I would'nt dare to try to change the subject. Irrelevance is subjective the last time I checked. William called you on your statements regarding selfishness...then reffered you to your previous posts on that subject to show you where you were on both sides of the fence. Since it has entered into the discussion about the use of Crossbows it became relevent to the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Nice link there ruttinbuc...I posted that so other people could see what I believe to be this States largest bowhunting organizations opinion on CROSSBOWS. Notice one thing...they dont make the public statement on there that a CROSSBOW has had a name change. HMMMMM they wont make it public on thier webpage but I can gaurantee you at any Sports Show or talking to just about every member of that group you'll hear the term Crossgun or Crossrifle. As if thier stance against the CROSSBOW does not have enough merit to stand by itself...they have to add the attempt to leach support by bowhunters who could go either way. I enjoy the Bowhunting season just as much as anyone else in this State...and the sound of a CrossBOW going off, if it ever becomes possible for people who want to use them, wont scare deer. The use of this weapon in an archery season does not compare to the use of any weapon using smokeless or black powder in thier respective seasons......SOUND does make a difference between the seasons and the weapons used in each. So now the justification for x-bows in bow season is that they don't make any noise? Do you have any new official requirements that we should put into the definition of a bowseason weapon. Maybe we should change the name of the season to quiet weapon season and loud weapon season. Or maybe deer-scaring weapon season and non-deer scaring weapon season.....lol. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Crossgun? Holy smokes...... What is the effective range of a modern crossbow? Do you know? I'll tell you, it is not any different than that of a modern compound bow. What is the effective range of a modern muzzleloader? Do you know? I'll tell you, 200 yard shots are not out of the question. No comparison between the two whatsoever. None. This discussion is beyond ridiculous. I'm done..... The crossbow does NOT have the range that many think it has. That has never been part of my anti crossgun statements in archery season. The range or lack there of. The muzzleloader is considered a primitive weapon. My point was, a smokepole is not considered a firearm. I was being facetious when I entered it into the discussion. Come on...still no one touched on the fact that it is point and shoot, no drawing back , no letting down, a safety on it, a magnified scope, shoulder fired(more steady). You can rest it on a rail. As long as you cock the crossbow when the animal is in your presence, like the ARCHER does. I have no issues with it. Would you rack your slide or work your lever with a deer in 30 yards? Point and shoot. A handgun is limited to 40-50 yards, range is not the issue. Pre cocked shoulder fired, magnified scoped weapon. LIKE A GUN. Projectile is NOT the issue. There are guns that shoot arrows, so thats that. Crossbows are loud and some are heavy. That is a disadvantage, no doubt. But if the archer does NOT take the shot they have to let down. The archer needs to resist the draw weight regardless of let off. It cannot be held indefinitely. The crossbow can be fired of a rest, not like the archer who needs to hold and draw. Those are my points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 So now the justification for x-bows in bow season is that they don't make any noise? Do you have any new official requirements that we should put into the definition of a bowseason weapon. Maybe we should change the name of the season to quiet weapon season and loud weapon season. Or maybe deer-scaring weapon season and non-deer scaring weapon season.....lol. Doc It is one justification in my opinion. Unlike some people I do not believe that my opinion is the only correct one or that everybody should believe as I do. I have no Official requirements to add at this time...but I am open to suggestions in a spirit of Unselfishness:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Guess if this has already been passed in PA, they will find out in a few seasons how much change or difference it really makes. Maybe someone here can report back in a couple years as to how the changes reflected on harvest numbers and on new hunters/total number of hunters. I know I would be interested in seeing those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Well Al, what do you expect from a guy that doesn't practice with his compound bow year round? Did he tell you that he missed his first shot on that behemoth of a buck he ended up tagging last Oct? Now that you mentioned it...I do recall that in his story Tom. Yeah, missed! 2nd shot missed low as well - aiming at lungs, but accidentally took out the heart. Now I don't recall that. I seem to recall a difficult tracking job problem.:D Put a crossbow in his hands instead and that deer would have never stood a chance once he got within 80 yards of Chris' tree..... :D Now Tom...that's pure speculation there bud. I'll bet target panic even with a crossbow would have messed up his accuracy at 20 yards since Chris isn't a year round archer. :D:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Doc, OK, so we're both selfish when it comes to sharing our seasons and deer, cool. I'm willing to give up bowhunting if the state changed the gun/crossbow season, your are not willing to do that. Are we straight on that? So, going way back to page 1 or 2 of this thread. You don't want crossbows in your woods during your regular bow season because they are essentially the same as using a gun, even though they don't make near the sound, and they don't have near the range. Right? And so you are willing to admit that the 'selfish' label thrown around by cross-bow proponents is simply a smokescreen used for nothing more than sidelining the discussion. And that essentially cross-bow hunters have the same desire to limit weapons choices in their season as archers do. That is basically the point I was trying to make. I think the quote you are looking for is: "There is not one argument for the inclusion of crossbows in bow season that wouldn't equally apply to muzzleloaders or rifles either for that matter." I did not say that x-bows are essentially the same as a gun even though basically they are shot pretty much like a gun and a lot of the accessories are the same as for guns, and the shooting skills required to hunt with a x-bow are essentially the same as a gun, obviously the ballistics and sound are not the same. I don't see any real news there. As far as the quote, I still have seen nothing that refutes that, with possibly one exception. The only argument that I have heard that a gunner would have a hard time using to justify his invasion of bow season is that crossbows don't go boom. That's a pretty slim distinction when actually the bigger disturbance in the woods that separates gun season from bow season is simply the presence and volume of people. We already have things that go boom in the bowseason that comes from small game hunters. By golly the gunners could probably use that fact too for shoe-horning their way into bow seasons. So, you see there really is not a huge difference between what you claim is your right to the bowseason, and the gun hunters potential claims to the same right should they ever try such a take-over. Oh, excuse me, the muzzleloaders in NYS did unsuccessfully try a season-grab and were turned back mostly through the efforts of that evil organization that GW likes to bad-mouth, the NY Bowhunters. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'm pretty sure I could put my bow down for a few years, pick it up and be shooting good groups within 20 arrows. I think a lot of guys way overemphasize how difficult shooting with archery tackle really is. Maybe that's because I have always shot quality stuff, maybe that's because I have some natural ability, I don't know, but it's really not that difficult to shoot a modern compound I don't think. You have no idea how arrogant and offensive that statement sounds to those of us who constantly have to work at maintaining our marksmanship, and believe me I know I am not alone in that. The bow club that I belong to is comprised of a membership (in excess of 100 members) that also have to work like **** to maintain an acceptable level of proficiency. The fact is that that's mostly what archery clubs across the country are all about. People trying to master and maintain the disciplines of archery. I would imagine that they too probably wouldn't appreciate their efforts being belittled simply in an attempt to make a pro-crossbow argument. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 If 1 bowhunter quits bowhunting because a crossbow is allowed in their archery season, but 4 new hunters take up the sport because they can use a crossbow, then our sport as a whole is still better off. We need more hunters in general to take an interest, to defend our overall hunting rights and stand up to misinformed lawmakers trying to take away our hunting rights all together. BTW, I don't use a crossbow, but I would hunt right along side a guy/gal or kid that wants to use one. Chris calls himself selfish when it comes to deer hunting, but I don't buy it. I'm not selfish either, I never would have invited him to hunt with me in the first place, or continue to invite him to hunt the land I had/have access to if I was. Well, that is a whole lot of "ifs". How about one more "if". How about if all or most of the x-bow additions into bowseason come from gun season cross-overs. How many hunters have we added then? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Nice Slam..that has nothing to do with the CrossBOW topic being discussed....so lets not get off track Doc. Need any more assistance or guidance...I'm here for you;) I'd hate to see you live your life in fear of what may happen in the future...without the numbers or facts to back that FEAR up. I hope the numbers and the facts about how other states seasons/harvest/hunter increases due to the Actual influx of Crossbows into formerly Vertical Bow seasons will become availible. Then some people can make a better judgement based on FACTS and not FEAR. You stated earlier that you were happy to hear other opinions in this discussion/argument(or something similar to that) for future battles. I gave you mine. Because I disagree with the NYB members seemingly Elitist attitude does not mean I disagree with thier desire to protect hunting...just thier tactics(more specifically the designation of a CrossBOW as a CrossGun/Crossrifle to support thier views). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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