elkoholic Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) One thing I find interesting about this debate is how our opinions are heavily influenced by what we grew up with (crossbows have been legal as long as we have been hunting?) or we have a personal interest in the outcome. Alas, many things are read into other peoples' statements and since this is not "real time", there is a lot of assumptions. On this issue I feel that shooting a crossbow is essentially a whole lot easier and an unfair advantage compared to shooting a vertical bow. On that score I could just switch to a crossbow, should they become legal here, and gain back the advantage. Hmmm... As far as children hunting, which has nothing to do with sharing the outdoors with someone, it is pretty hard to believe that one could hold up a crossbow but lack the strength to pull back a vertical bow of sufficient poundage to be legal, and lethal. If you have to hold the weapon for them, they surely are too young to hunt, unless there is a disability, in which case they could probably use a crossbow anyhow. Legal hunting age in Montana is 12 and both my daughter and son could easily draw 50+ lbs at that age. No, crossbow shooters will not shoot all my deer, but they sure will have an easier time shooting the ones they do. Someday, as age and infirmity takes it's toll, I may well join them. I can see it all now....no longer have to practice near as much, it is too tiring anyhow, oh....saw some movement, grab the stick rifle and rest it on the shooting shelf, already at full draw, no need to pick the right time to draw (and forget that holding at full draw stuff when the deer needs to take one more step), now just tickle the trigger....... Dang, the back-straps taste the same....ah now I'm hungry. Edited February 1, 2009 by elkoholic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swohiodave Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 they said this is not a debate.. if you don't have something nice to say dont say anything. if you dont agree with the title this thread is not for you! childish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 they said this is not a debate.. if you don't have something nice to say dont say anything. if you dont agree with the title this thread is not for you! childish! Trying to get rid of opposing opinions are we, swohiodave? If a debate was not expected or wanted, probably a hunting forum was not a real good place to post this. Funny how forums are kind of noted for discussions. If you are looking for some kind of x-bow love-in, I don't think I would be trying to force it on a hunting forum. It's just not the kind of subject where you will find only one common view. That's kind of like a PETA member coming on here, making a few incendiary remarks and then saying there will be no debate.....lol. So, I guess if you can't stand to hear opinions that are different from yours, internet forums are probably not for you. It all just comes with the territory. Don't take it too hard. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Saw this over at AT.com, thought some of you might get a kick out of it..... Crying towel now available at Cabelas and BassPro...... ----> <---- LMBO!!! Heard they may make these in camo too soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 It surly would be interesting to see just how many compound bow users would actually be out there if the law was stated this way .... All compound bows will be manufactured without any letoff modules or assist of any type .. Release aides will now be illegal to use with your compounds, fingers or nothing folks .. We'll let you keep your pin sights tho folks ... Stir the pot enough here .. bye bye .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I'd be OK with that, Luke...Then there would definitely be no one looking to take the easy way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoyt03 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 It's defintely going to change my favorite time of year. I can see it now, buying their xbows al walmart on friday night, go sit for the first hr of daylight saturday and then start driving through every piece of woods imaginable and trying to fling some arrows at running deer. Then i'm sure the blaze orange will come in, and so on. xbows are really a pain in the butt and do not shoot as accuracte as a compound, and are hard to hold b/c they thump so bad. Heck you have to even use 3 pins out to 30 yards b/c they drop so much. But like all you other PA guys know, try telling that to some of these guys who think their shooting a gun and will be pulling the trigger out passed 100 yds. Do I think this will have an effect on harvest numbers, not really b/c the deer are going to get wacked out of any type of natural movements by these gun hunters turned bow hunters and go nocturnal all year long. It's basically going to have the rifle season feel during an archery season. I can't imagine the amounts of conflicts that will be created now as well with people stomping through the woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I'd be OK with that, Luke...Then there would definitely be no one looking to take the easy way out. It would definately take me uout of the picture Mike, I have all I can do with my 65lbs. on my Katera. This arm injury was right to the bone and the muscle use is somewhat limited .. I'll take all of the help I can get ,, Who knows what this arm will bring me as I get older .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Maybe they will require a doctors excuse for you to keep a let off module on your bow. Or you could shoot a lot less weight. You would have to sell that bow for sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 You would have to sell that bow for sure... Now that really hurt ... :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippyswamp Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Needed to put my two cents in on the crossbow subject. I've been using one here in WI for the past 23 years. I broke my neck and needed one to get back in the woods to hunt. WI has a thing against them. You have to have a DR.s orders that states one is disabled. A application is required and needed to be filled out by the MD. But I have seen and herd so many against them for the general public. The same old song and dance that they can shoot 50 to 100 yards and going to kill all the deer. (Just like shooting a gun) well I have seen regular archery equipment out shoot a cross bow. As far as I'm concerned, let those buying their lisense decide what their going to use. As long as it's legal, let 'em be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoyt03 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 thats the thing, a lot of people that don't archery hunt but will now that crossbows are out know little about archery and think they are going to be shooting a "gun" which in reality crossbows have a more limited range then compounds. How many wounded later will they realize this. As I stated earlier I don't think it will have much impact on the overall harvest numbers. What else will the PGC come up with for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Now that really hurt ... :p OK then, maybe you can keep that bow for a keepsake and a dust collector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 As far as I'm concerned, let those buying their lisense decide what their going to use. As long as it's legal, let 'em be. So far with all these tales of medical woe, I have not heard a single argument that could not be used for allowing guns in bowseason for those with any medical problems. Is that where we are really going with this line of argument? This particular quote sounds like that would be acceptable. You buy a license and shoot whatever you want. Sounds good eh? Just do away with the bow designation and simply extend the gun season. I'm thinking that's really what all this crossbow stuff is all about anyway. It's not the weapon they are after, it's the season. Has anybody ever considered the possibility of simply picking up a gun in the currently designated gun season if you have a disability that doesn't let you use the proper weapon for the bow season? Same question for those who simply lack the desire to put up with the rigors of mastering a bow. It really seems like a rather simple concept. Bow seasons were meant for bows. All others use gunseason. Seems simple doesn't it? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 So far with all these tales of medical woe, I have not heard a single argument that could not be used for allowing guns in bowseason for those with any medical problems. Is that where we are really going with this line of argument? I'll humor you. Because guns make a lot of noise thus spooking game, and guns have much more range than crossbows. Same question for those who simply lack the desire to put up with the rigors of mastering a bow. Rigors of mastering a bow? Come on. Really? Today's bows take about an hour to master given proper instruction. I've taught a fair share of guys how to shoot a bow, and in no time at all they were hitting a paper plate at 20 yards with no problem. If you're arguing longbows and recurves, OK, but not modern compounds. Lousy argument. But, in the end, like my buddy Fred said "why argue when nobody is willing to give up their bias." We all know where you stand Doc, quite frankly, I dare say it only appeals to a minority, you see the end is near to your precious territory and it scares you, but preach on brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 quite frankly, I dare say it only appeals to a minority That would be debatable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 That would be debatable... LOL--maybe. Sounds like a good poll topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Not just for PA folks anymore! Also available in NY and NJ.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Not just for PA folks anymore! Also available in NY and NJ.... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 :D Bwhaaaa !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) :D :D Too funny! Truth hurts, huh? Edited February 2, 2009 by Ohiobucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 :D Too funny! Truth hurts, huh? Would not know, Tom....the jury is still out on the issue as far as I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I'll humor you. Because guns make a lot of noise thus spooking game, and guns have much more range than crossbows. You kind of missed the whole point of my reply didn't you? Your answer does not refute the fact that the same arguments being put forth for x-bows in bowseason apply both to crossbows AND guns (noise or no noise). Rigors of mastering a bow? Come on. Really? Today's bows take about an hour to master given proper instruction. I've taught a fair share of guys how to shoot a bow, and in no time at all they were hitting a paper plate at 20 yards with no problem. If you're arguing longbows and recurves, OK, but not modern compounds. Lousy argument. Getting a little loose with the truth now aren't we? I've heard a bit of over-statement before, but that statement was just plain ridiculous and anybody who is seriously involved with archery knows that. Sorry, but you're not talking to a crossbow, gunseason crossover, newbie. I'm not swallowing that crock. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I have never heard anything so silly and I just have to call you on that. For one thing, if you do not even understand the disciplines involved with archery,along with the constant demand of practice to keep those disciplines engrained, I don't understand how you could teach anybody anything in 1 hour or 1 year. Heaven help anyone who asks you for help on problems of target panic. I suppose you would probably just tell them "walk it off fella its only a compound", and then walk away thinking you have done something wonderful. I think I would save your little fantasies of instant archery teaching for those that don't know better. But, in the end, like my buddy Fred said "why argue when nobody is willing to give up their bias." We all know where you stand Doc, quite frankly, I dare say it only appeals to a minority, you see the end is near to your precious territory and it scares you, but preach on brother. I already addressed the reason for debating x-bows in bowseason. And just because you declare my views to be in the minority, does not make it so. I think you are probably not in a very good position to judge that since the archers in your state caved years ago. For MOST states the debate is still ahead of us, and it is still a very active issue. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 You kind of missed the whole point of my reply didn't you? Your answer does not refute the fact that the same arguments being put forth for x-bows in bowseason apply both to crossbows AND guns (noise or no noise). I don't think anyone understands your points. Getting a little loose with the truth now aren't we? Nope, not at all. I guess you're calling me a liar. That's cool. I've heard a bit of over-statement before, but that statement was just plain ridiculous and anybody who is seriously involved with archery knows that. I guess I'm not "seriously" involved then. All those deer I've shot over the years were mistaken I guess. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I have never heard anything so silly and I just have to call you on that. Don't apologize, I don't think you're all that contrite. For one thing, if you do not even understand the disciplines involved with archery, along with the constant demand of practice to keep those disciplines engrained, It's really not that difficult dude. I don't understand how you could teach anybody anything in 1 hour or 1 year. I taught my accounting classes how to journalize payroll taxes today, and it only took 42 minutes. Heaven help anyone who asks you for help on problems of target panic. Yeah, because, clearly, you don't get target panic when you have a gun, crossbow, compound, recurve, longbow, slingshot, Red Ryder..... I suppose you would probably just tell them "walk it off fella its only a compound", and then walk away thinking you have done something wonderful. That might be the only truthful thing in your post. I'll admit, it's tough to help someone with target panic. That's a mental thing IMHO, not mechanical. I don't have too much psychological training. I think I would save your little fantasies of instant archery teaching for those that don't know better. Not a fantasy, truth, then again, maybe you're......well, I'll refrain from getting personal, don't want to stoop to your level. Thanks for your input. This is fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 :confused: Doc, so what does this all boil down to for you? Crossbows should be allowed during gun season or a special crossbow season only? All people hear when you argue that is, "I don't want to share "my" woods or "my" deer." Pretty dang sad if you ask me. Some might call it a bit selfish as well.... Crossbows help get young hunters involved in our sport. Encouraging young hunters to take to the woods and continue our sport is a lot more important to me than bumping into a young hunter in "my" woods. How old are you? Do you have kids? Nieces / nephews that ever asked you, "Uncle Doc, will you take me out hunting?" Or, "Can you teach me to hunt?" Someone said it earlier, most states should be trying to duplicate the success Ohio has had in regards to the whitetail deer population and habitat. Nobody can argue those facts at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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