PotashRLS Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 I just finally read through this thread..............and I have one comment at this time. I need to put a phone jack in the crapper for the next time you guys go at it. I won't have to read any magazines anymore:rolleyes: WOW:eek: Congrats to you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 I shoot a 225lbs exomax excalibur crossbow .......... Wow!!!............How the heck do you pick that thing up???? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperflow Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Wow!!!............How the heck do you pick that thing up???? Doc 225lbs draw weight smart guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 I am no longer a contributor of that forum. I never thought I would welcome moderation, but there you go. You act like you contribute to this one. Sorry bud, you left the door open. Think of it as falling asleep with your mouth open. Geneva convention holds no merit here either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Sharing the hunting woods with true archery hunters is one thing and sharing those same woods with an opportunist is quite another. So then I guess the true archery hunter uses only a long bow and re-curve. Guess all compounds will just have to be illegal from now on! As far as being an opportunist, I think we all are an opportunist! Once the deer comes into our shooting area we pick the opportunity whether or not to shoot that deer, don't we regardless of what weapon we use? Its this kind of thinking that divides us hunters in the first place. Here we are at a very important part of our hunting heritage, and all we can is argue amonst each other for what the next person is using! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 So then I guess the true archery hunter uses only a long bow and re-curve. Guess all compounds will just have to be illegal from now on! If you can make that happen, then go ahead. I can say that because I know it will never happen. That tired old argument just doesn't fly anymore. When you try to compare compounds to crossbows, the whole argument falls apart. Its this kind of thinking that divides us hunters in the first place. Here we are at a very important part of our hunting heritage, and all we can is argue amonst each other for what the next person is using! And for the gazillionth time, I will answer this statement the same way I have always answered it. If you really feel this way then stop excluding and descriminating against gun hunters and let them also have full access to your crossbow season. But you see, even you are concerned about "what the next person is using", and willing to argue the point. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 If you can make that happen, then go ahead. I can say that because I know it will never happen. That tired old argument just doesn't fly anymore. When you try to compare compounds to crossbows, the whole argument falls apart. How so Doc ?? The only 2 big uncomparable points on a crossbow versus the compondbow is the fact that the cossbow has a lockback feature ( but by the way so can the compound ) that that it has a stock instead of a hand grip .. But lets go the other way with this .. The compoundbow is by far the quieter weapon, and the compoundbow is by far the more accurate weapon at greater distances, and the compoundbow is less bulkier to handle in the woods... (lets put aside the range shooting, because you know that you can get away with more on the range than on the stand) And for the gazillionth time, I will answer this statement the same way I have always answered it. If you really feel this way then stop excluding and descriminating against gun hunters and let them also have full access to your crossbow season. But you see, even you are concerned about "what the next person is using", and willing to argue the point. Doc You seriously can't be suggesting that the crossbow is equal to the firearm world .... :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 What I think puts it in the firearm category is the facts that, it is a shoulder fired, scoped, pre cocked weapon that does not have to be drawn in the presence of the animal. Draw locks are also illegal in NYS and are tantamount to a crossbow...see I didn't say crossgun, as much as I would have like to:p. Most places that BAN crossbows also ban draw locks for compounds. A crossbow has much more similarities to a gun, regardless of projectile, which is a bolt, not an arrow;). As far as range goes, the compound has that won hands down. Yes, the crossbow is louder when fired, but it can be quieted to some extent with the right equipment. I will make my point for the gazillionith time also( I like that Doc:D). The simple fact that it does NOT have to be drawn in the prescense of the animal, disqualifies it for archery. Point and shoot...like a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) I agree Anthony with the point and shoot argument, but that's where the comparison ends .... I also can scope my Hoyt ... I have actually seen scopes being mounted to compounds where I do my archery business .. Shouldering one of these crossbows is very awkward IMHO ,, and as far as the lock back feature ,, I for one find it to be a very mi-noote point in the comparison factor .. As for quiteting these things down ,, forget it .. my father-in-law has spent a small fortune in silencing equipment for his 10 point and that thing is still unbelievably loud .. :eek: My .22 rifle is quieter than that monstrosity of a thing .. I still don't get why some still have this big hatred for a hunting weapon .. I will say this tho .. we are all hunters, NO matter what our opinions are on this subject ,, we are still friends in the hunting world .. Edited February 15, 2009 by VermontHunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 If you can make that happen, then go ahead. I can say that because I know it will never happen. That tired old argument just doesn't fly anymore. When you try to compare compounds to crossbows, the whole argument falls apart. This is the same old argument when compounds first hit the hunting world! They thought there world was coming to an end! Its a moot point anymore Luke! I shot my fathers Xbow and experienced the same thing you did. After about 30 yards that arrow....er........bolts drops like a BRICK!!! But its still a firearm!!! LMBO!!!! Same mentality going on in a PA forum I belong too! OH, THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END! WHAT SHALL I DO!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotashRLS Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 You guys need Muggs in here, I just don't know what side he'd be on................ No actual harming of horses was committed in the attempt at putting humor into my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperflow Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) And for the gazillionth time, I will answer this statement the same way I have always answered it. If you really feel this way then stop excluding and descriminating against gun hunters and let them also have full access to your crossbow season. But you see, even you are concerned about "what the next person is using", and willing to argue the point. Doc That makes no sence what so ever, a compounds actualy shoots farther then a x-bow. But a x-bow should be in the same season as a gun that can shoot over 500 yards? The number 1 reason i hunt bow season and rather hunt bow is because deer move more naturaly and its a more peaceful time in the woods insted of feeling like another war broke out. Edited February 15, 2009 by hyperflow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 That makes no sence what so ever, a compounds actualy shoots farther then a x-bow. But a x-bow should be in the same season as a gun that can shoot over 500 yards? The number 1 reason i hunt bow season and rather hunt bow is because deer move more naturaly and its a more peaceful time in the woods insted of feeling like another war broke out. What the heck...why not give this horse a few more kicks and shots... NO, I do not feel that a cross....errr....bow, (See Luke I'm tryin':p I didn't say crossgun:eek:) is in the same class as a gun that can shoot 500 yards. But for the gazzillionith and one times...The simple fact that it is NOT drawn in the precense of the animal disqualifies it for archery season. It is point and shoot LIKE a gun. Drawing in the presence of the animal gives the animal a chance, which to me is what archery is all about. Beating them up close and doing everything right by making the shot. Not just laying on the crosshairs and pulling a trigger... LIKE a gun. It is Sunday evening, I see this horse taking a few more shots before the day is done. NEXT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUTNSTRUT Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Never understood why they are banned anyway. One look at Ohio and I would think other states would have common sense enough to believe that all the myths out there just aren't true--they are a viable choice for deer. Have you ever looked at your archery harvest percentages. From a few years after Ohio allowed cross guns through present they have accounted for the majority of "archery" kills by a large number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Have you ever looked at your archery harvest percentages. From a few years after Ohio allowed cross guns through present they have accounted for the majority of "archery" kills by a large number. Who cares? Ohio's herd continues to grow and is quite healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 What the heck...why not give this horse a few more kicks and shots... NO, I do not feel that a cross....errr....bow, (See Luke I'm tryin':p I didn't say crossgun:eek:) is in the same class as a gun that can shoot 500 yards. But for the gazzillionith and one times...The simple fact that it is NOT drawn in the precense of the animal disqualifies it for archery season. It is point and shoot LIKE a gun. Drawing in the presence of the animal gives the animal a chance, which to me is what archery is all about. Beating them up close and doing everything right by making the shot. Not just laying on the crosshairs and pulling a trigger... LIKE a gun. It is Sunday evening, I see this horse taking a few more shots before the day is done. NEXT! Anthony, you still have to raise and shoulder the weapon,, this would be done while the animal isn't looking or aware of such a movement,( and as bulky and hefty as they are this isn't an easy task ) just like holding and waiting for the opportunity to draw your bow .. This is the biggest misconception of the crossbow ,,, a cross hair in a scope isn't any different from the pin in a sight .. using the equipment when the animal offers the shot is just part of the game .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm23494 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 You guys need Muggs in here, I just don't know what side he'd be on................ No actual harming of horses was committed in the attempt at putting humor into my post. I think it was dead about 10 pages of comments ago. There was a bunch of crossbows being sold at the Sportsman's show when I was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I am enjoying jousting with my friend Luke;) We are being civil. Luke, one can rest the cross...bow:D on a rail and steady the weapon. A archer cannot do that. The crossbow can be resting on a rail waiting for the animal to enter, then with a minimum of movement, aim and pull trigger. A crossbowhunter can do that sitting. An archer has to stand, draw with the animal in sight, hold that draw, fight the bow strings pulling back, even with let off of 80%, one cannot hold it indefinitely aim without a rest to steady himself, pick the right pin, and release. The pins on a bowsight are NOT magnified as that on a crossbow scope. UN GARD!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 You still haven't addressed the bows that are mounted with scopes that are magnified ... I don't stand when a deer / animal presents itself I draw from a seated position, and I practice this in the off season from a stand and from a blind .. I do see what you are saying about resting the weapon on a rail .. but to me that just makes up for the lack of distance and noise the crossbow has .. VS. the compound. I still say it's all about the enjoyment of hunting, not the weapon being used ... but hey that's just me .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 How so Doc ?? The only 2 big uncomparable points on a crossbow versus the compondbow is the fact that the cossbow has a lockback feature ( but by the way so can the compound ) that that it has a stock instead of a hand grip .. I have no concern about the appearance issues. The obvious differences that I spoke of is in the way the weapon is fired, and the disciplines involved in shooting each weapon. I won't bother to repeat the long list of form disciplines that must be mastered and adhered to to successfully shoot each weapon. However, that is where the comparison falls apart. Sure the crossbow looks like a completely different weapon, but the real important difference is based on the required shooter's skills and mental and physical disciplines. The science and mechanics of shooting each have absolutely nothing in common. You seriously can't be suggesting that the crossbow is equal to the firearm world Now here is where you have to pay attention to the words and the context. There is absolutely no place that I ever said that "the crossbow is equal to the firearm world". Clearly it is not. However if you put my response in the context of the statement that I was replying to, it is obvious that I was saying that if all these people are so concerned about all the infighting and turf wars in hunting, then a pure non-hypocritical reaction should be that all special seasons should be done away with and that ALL exclusionary season rules should be removed. And that would include no special seasons for crossbows (not even inside of bowseasons). Then all would be well in the hunting world. Of course that is nonsense but then so is the attack on bowhunters as being antagonistic toward other hunters and a source of dischord. It hasn't been bowhunters who are trying to wdge there way into someone else's season. However, if you truly feel that the exclusions of special seasons are a threat to hunting then don't be trying to pollute existing special seasons with weapons that were never intended to be there. Start campaigning to get rid of special seasons altogether. Make your actions reflect your beliefs. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) And for the gazillionth time, I will answer this statement the same way I have always answered it. If you really feel this way then stop excluding and descriminating against gun hunters and let them also have full access to your crossbow season. But you see, even you are concerned about "what the next person is using", and willing to argue the point. Doc That makes no sence what so ever, a compounds actualy shoots farther then a x-bow. But a x-bow should be in the same season as a gun that can shoot over 500 yards? The number 1 reason i hunt bow season and rather hunt bow is because deer move more naturaly and its a more peaceful time in the woods insted of feeling like another war broke out. So you too want to get a break that is denied the gunhunters. Well, that sounds a bit exclusionary to me. It sounds like you are trying to cause division in the ranks of hunters. You are pitting one group of hunters against another. What have you got against gunhunters? See how goofy that sounds? well the same thing is true and sounds just as goofy when crossbow proponents say it about bowhunters. By the way, the same reasons that you stated for wanting to hunt during bowseason are the same reasons we are resisting allowing a weapon into bowseason that would result in an open invitation to mobs of "gun cross-overs". I too have no particular desire to see bow season become over-run by gun season transplants. Doc Edited February 16, 2009 by Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbeck Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Dang this is a big discusion, I think I'll stick around and watch this one. LOL By the way, no crossbows will be used on my land, not because of any other reason than we haven't found one yet we can't outshoot with the compound. To each his own, we are loosing hunters in this state and they are scrambling to maintain the high paying positions created because of hunting. There fore they will pass anything to get people back into hunting and up the license sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I actually agree that a crossbow is more like a gun in the way of being able to point and shoot it, however that is as far as that argument goes. Looking at history, the crossbow has in fact been around far longer than a gun has Doc. Sure you do not have to draw the crossbow and it would be a bit easier handling than drawing a compound, but you do still have to get close and manage to shoot and get in position to shoot without being detected. Gun hunters who are these "transplants" if they are going to get close have to have some degree of skill do they not? Sadly this type of selfishness that is driving divisive barriers between groups of hunters can potentially lead to the downfall to hunting for most of us. I know Doc that you posted that you were concerned about lower numbers of hunters. Some time back you argued with me on the point that numbers in my own state were actually on the rise. I tried pulling a search on our states numbers. It does not have data available for the year prior to when crossbows became included as archery gear, but it does seperate the crossbow numbers from the archery numbers and the totals for crossbows by county are not really that significant if you look at the total harvest numbers. The county I hunt, there were 22 crossbow kills the first year they were added(2005 season), some of those archery kills may well have been during the rifle seasons as you are allowed to hunt with any weapon during the rifle seasons here. There were 126 archery kills for a total of 148 kills for the seasons with archery gear running from the 4th Saturday in Sept until the 2nd Sunday in January. Gun kills totalled 1430 and muzzleloader kill was 378 equalling 1808, so the number of crossbow kills was a rather small percentage at .012 of the total harvest. This years totals had 29 crossbow kills with 103 archery kills. For a total of 132 deer taken during the archery seasons. Interesting that the number of archery killed deer dropped off, however this county has been in liberal doe unit for the past few years and ehd hit the area the year before last which has been reflected in the statewide numbers. Gun harvests were at 1277 with ml at 431, however keep in mind that the gun numbers include does, the 2005 season if I remember right we did have some gun hunts for does but I do not remember for certain if that was the first year we were place in the liberal unit, thinking it was not until 2006. Does taken with gun made up for 642 of the total gun harvest. Total number of does taken in the year prior, the 2007-2008 was 772, so there was a decline by over 100 deer this year. Total harvest for the county was at 2179 deer of which the crossbow percentage was at .013 of the total number of deer taken. There may well have been a flood of crossbow hunters taking to the woods, but looking at the numbers, it appears to me that they have not been that successful, at least not here in my state in the county I hunt. Keep in mind too that some of those same hunters using crossbow may well be handicapped folks that were using crossbows prior to crossbows being made to be included in our archery seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperflow Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 And for the gazillionth time, I will answer this statement the same way I have always answered it. If you really feel this way then stop excluding and descriminating against gun hunters and let them also have full access to your crossbow season. But you see, even you are concerned about "what the next person is using", and willing to argue the point. Doc That makes no sence what so ever, a compounds actualy shoots farther then a x-bow. But a x-bow should be in the same season as a gun that can shoot over 500 yards? The number 1 reason i hunt bow season and rather hunt bow is because deer move more naturaly and its a more peaceful time in the woods insted of feeling like another war broke out. So you too want to get a break that is denied the gunhunters. Well, that sounds a bit exclusionary to me. It sounds like you are trying to cause division in the ranks of hunters. You are pitting one group of hunters against another. What have you got against gunhunters? See how goofy that sounds? well the same thing is true and sounds just as goofy when crossbow proponents say it about bowhunters. By the way, the same reasons that you stated for wanting to hunt during bowseason are the same reasons we are resisting allowing a weapon into bowseason that would result in an open invitation to mobs of "gun cross-overs". I too have no particular desire to see bow season become over-run by gun season transplants. Doc Wow you see things tottaly diffrent then i do, i hunt in all seasons. I hunt with a bow in bow season and i hunt with a gun in gun season and hunt with a muzzle loader in muzzle loader season. I injoy just being out in the woods hunting deer regarless what weapon i have in my hands. Im not a meat hunter so i welcome any extended, special or any other type of season just to have and excuse to be seating in a deer stand. i injoy the hunt not the weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperflow Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I am enjoying jousting with my friend Luke;) We are being civil. Luke, one can rest the cross...bow:D on a rail and steady the weapon. A archer cannot do that. The crossbow can be resting on a rail waiting for the animal to enter, then with a minimum of movement, aim and pull trigger. A crossbowhunter can do that sitting. An archer has to stand, draw with the animal in sight, hold that draw, fight the bow strings pulling back, even with let off of 80%, one cannot hold it indefinitely aim without a rest to steady himself, pick the right pin, and release. The pins on a bowsight are NOT magnified as that on a crossbow scope. UN GARD!!! Also if you have a rail around you this limits how close you can shoot a deer with a crossbow. On another note, a crossbow because it so wide it limites your shooting angle compaired to a compound and you are very limited to what kind of stands you hunt in. You can't hunt out of a inclosed stand unless you have VERY wide windows and unless you stick the bow right out of the window the deer would have to be placed perfectly where u want it. Any stand that is not a open stand a crossbow you are limited in your angles because of trees, branches etc.... You also have to worrie about when the limes fire that you dont hit anything with them. There are lots of deer that if i would of had a compound it would of been a chip shot but with a x-bow i couldn;t shoot when the deer is right there at 10 yards but i had to watch it walk away. When ppl think of a x-bow there thinking perfect shots and just point and shoot. Its not that simple, x-bows limit you in alot of ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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