Basic Scoring Info

[redkneck]

Ok, I dont go out and do lots of c/p stuff, but I get this tip of the week emailed to me. Sometimes really useful, sometimes not, but always worth reading. I'm posting this because I had posted a pic in the photo section on scoring a deer i killed last year, and i found that a lot of ppl arent realy comfortable with scoring deer, or the differences in net, gross, etc. I thought this was a pretty simple summary of the two main scoring systems out there. I also have friends down here that like to use buckmasters to score, but also like to add the width. You cant butter your bread on both sides boys...

Tip of the Week: By the Numbers

Antler scoring isn't rocket science.

Regardless of the system to be used, coming up with a score for a standard set of antlers involves taking a series of measurements: the lengths of the main beams, four circumference measurements per side (whether it's a 6- or a 14-pointer), plus the lengths of all points that are a minimum 1-inch.

That's pretty much it for the Buckmasters system, which includes every measurable inch of antler in its score.

The much older Boone and Crockett Club's system takes the process a couple of steps farther. First, they subtract the unmatched or uneven measurements found in the typical frame - even if the buck will ultimately be declared non-typical. These are called deductions. Secondly, they include the inside spread between main beams ... as long as that width isn't greater than the length of the longest beam. If it is, a deer gets only the longest beam measurement.

The more symmetrical and "cleaner" a rack is, the more likely it'll carry a higher B&C score ... because deductions are minimal and the inside spread is included. But there are a bunch of racks that fare better with Buckmasters' system.

Even hunters who are clueless about the mechanics of measuring have heard the terms "gross" and "net," the former being a higher number. Gross simply means before deductions. But did you know that a B&C scoresheet has no box labeled gross? There's a place for a subtotal, under which you must subtract deductions, but it isn't necessarily a true gross - as typicals, for example, will not reflect a kicker or sticker that's listed in the abnormal column. In other words, they're pretending the abnormal points don't exist.

Deer hunters like to refer to their trophies by EVERYTHING they're wearing. If you don't believe me, just ask Buckmasters founder Jackie Bushman about his biggest whitetail. The man who OWNS the BTR will say, "191," even though his own record book lists the deer as scoring 166 5/8 (which doesn't include the exceptional 24-plus-inch inside spread). Why? It's human nature.

Jackie's deer, the "191-incher," would net 183 5/8 on the B&C scale as a non-typical. That's almost a foot short of their record book's minimum. If it were scored as a typical under their rules, it would net a pitiful 113 1/8 because of deductions. It would actually score way better if he'd taken a hacksaw and removed the drop tine and four other points.

I mention Jackie's deer for two reasons. First, under the Buckmasters system, he didn't have to do the math. We have a box clearly visible on the scoresheet that reflects a deer's true gross. We call it a "composite score." While the composite score is meaningless in terms of our record book, which is designed so people can make exhaustive bone-to-bone comparisons, it provides THE figure a hunter wants to know. The second reason I've used Jackie's Alberta buck as an example is to show how deductions can destroy a rack's score.

Somewhere along the line, someone decided symmetry is the most desirable trait for deer antlers. Problem is, very few mature whitetails have perfect racks. Pretending that antler doesn't exist when determining a score is wrong. So is penalizing a rack 5 inches because one brow tine is 12 inches long and the mate is only 7. B&C would allow a total of 14 inches for those two points, while the BTR would give the full 19.

I mention Jackie's deer for two reasons. First, under the Buckmasters system, he didn't have to do the math. We have a box clearly visible on the scoresheet that reflects a deer's true gross. We call it a "composite score." While the composite score is meaningless in terms of our record book, which is designed so people can make exhaustive bone-to-bone comparisons, it provides THE figure a hunter wants to know. The second reason I've used Jackie's Alberta buck as an example is to show how deductions can destroy a rack's score.

That's why Buckmasters' Full-Credit Scoring System came into being.

There are other, more subtle differences between the B&C and BTR systems. But this is pretty much all you need to know unless you harvest a buck whose B&C and BTR numbers are vastly different and not explainable by spread credit or deductions.

Edited February 19, 2009 by redkneck

[Rhino]

Even hunters who are clueless about the mechanics of measuring have heard the terms "gross" and "net," the former being a higher number. Gross simply means before deductions. But did you know that a B&C scoresheet has no box labeled gross? There's a place for a subtotal, under which you must subtract deductions, but it isn't necessarily a true gross - as typicals, for example, will not reflect a kicker or sticker that's listed in the abnormal column. In other words, they're pretending the abnormal points don't exist.

Although it's true a B&C scoresheet does not have a box labeled "gross" score, starting with the 26th Big Game Awards period the true gross that B&C includes in the official records (along with a buck's net score) includes the total of the points listed in the subtotal of the abnormal points column. The official score sheet of the typical buck I entered in B&C (and P&Y) back in 2005 shows his subtotal (that's the before deductions score excluding abnormal points) is 182 7/8. He also had one abnormal point measuring 1 3/8". His official gross score printed in B&C's 26th Big Game Awards 2004-2006 book is 184 2/8. They are still listed in numerical order by net score in the book (left column) with the gross score in the column right next to it. Also, if you are a B&C associate member you receive their quarterly issue of Fair Chase magazine that also list recent entries in the same manner. Just thought I'd clear that up.

[Tominator]

Deer hunters like to refer to their trophies by EVERYTHING they're wearing.

Maybe some, but not all.

The BTR is OK I guess. Honestly I think it's a marketing ploy by the Buckmasters organization, which, if you ask a few members here, has widely become known as a huge marketing tool. They're own system is pretty hypocritical IMO. They began by saying the inside spread is meaningless because it measures air. Well, I think if you ask just about anyone, they are going to say the width of a deer is a very important measurement.

I guess I'm a traditionalist when it comes to score. Give me the Pope or Boone score any day. They set the standard so that's what I go by.

[rhine16]

I think I'll stick to the Pope and Young/ Boone and Crockett measurements. While the net scores may take away from a typical buck, I think that the scoring system does it the right way. Though there is no guide to the growth of antlers that says that the G2 should be longer than the G3, doesn't a buck whose G2 is the longer by an inch or so look better than ones who isn't? I think so.

Honestly I think it's a marketing ploy by the Buckmasters organization, which, if you ask a few members here, has widely become known as a huge marketing tool.

I'm sure it is a marketing ploy, seems like everything else they do is. I will never sign up for one of their "giveaways" again

[redkneck]

Well just to clear things up, I'm not advocating, either system. All I can attest to is that the regional big buck contests here use buckmasters and that's what guys around here think in terms of when it comes to scoring. I just got that email and thought i'd post it is all, showing the differences in the two systems. Honestly i had no idea that Jackie Bushman came up with the thing until i read that email, and you can't expect an unbiased assessment of the thing if your getting your info from the outfit that came up with it. I just know of a few ppl i've talked to that told me what their buck scored, and how they scored it, then when you ask them you find out they added the inside spread also. It's just some info ppl, keep your shirts on! hahahaaa

[Rhino]

I'm not advocating either scoring system either. To be perfectly honest, even though I have one in the book I still have the attitude that "nets are for fish" and record books too. Always will! Even B&C came around to including the true gross score in their official records mainly because most hunters think of their trophies along B&C's/P&Y's gross score lines. I was a little surprised to see your email that apparently came from someone on Buckmasters side of the scoring system fence so to speak stated incorrectly how B&C's gross score was actually determined.

Basically from putting a tape on so many bucks over the years and having learned how to estimate their score (class) on the hoof, when it comes to determining what class a deer is my mind automatically thinks of the class of the buck in terms of gross B&C/P&Y score. Sizing one up here in MS in not a big factor in determining if it's one I want to kill or not (maturity is) but it certainly is when I hit the road to hunt midwestern states. It would be if I hunted Ohio "land of the BIG BUCKS" too.

If I'm ever fortunate enough to kill another deer that makes B&C, I'll enter him. Not so I can have my name in the book again but simply because the deer deserves it. They are just too rare to come by.

[redkneck]

Well most of you guys have taken bucks far bigger than i'll ever take, unless i spend some cash and go to a good outfitter. Not complaining, i've killed some good bucks, just not THAT good, lol. The only deer i ever did a full mount on scored 145 5/8 using the buckmasters system. I wouldnt mind doing it the other way to see how it fared in B&C.

P.S. - that's why i like to pass up them 8's and shoot the spikes. They taste better, but they are just so easy to score!

[Rhino]

The only deer i ever did a full mount on scored 145 5/8 using the buckmasters system. I wouldnt mind doing it the other way to see how it fared in B&C.

That's a real nice buck. What was his inside spread? If I understand buckmasters scoring system correctly and if his inside spread isn't more than his longest main beam just add that to it for a B&C gross score. Nets are for fish anyway.

BTW...you don't really need an outfitter...just access, by whatever means to a good piece of land, preferably private IMO anyway. Mine came from a do it yourself hunt on private land.

[redkneck]

BTW...you don't really need an outfitter...just access, by whatever means to a good piece of land, preferably private IMO anyway. Mine came from a do it yourself hunt on private land.

Yeah, i know, there's deer that go into the 170's that normally wins our local buck contest, that covers around 5 counties i think, and they certainly didnt come off a ranch. Just saying i'm fortunate to have taken a nice deer and who knows what the future holds is all.

Hey Rhino, you got a scoresheet for B&C?

[Rhino]

Hey Rhino, you got a scoresheet for B&C?

The only one I have on hand is the one the official B&C scorer used to measure my buck and it's filled out.

B&C and P&Y use the same scoring system and you can print one of P&Y's scoring sheets out from this link. The only difference is minimum entry scores. Just pick the PDF file for whichever one it is...typical or non-typical whitetail deer.

http://www.pope-young.org/minimum-scores_charts.asp

[Tominator]

It's just some info ppl, keep your shirts on! hahahaaa

No shirts coming off here, lol. It's dinner time, don't want anyone to lose their appetite.

I didn't meand to sound upset, sorry if I came off that way. I just remember when Buckmasters came up with "their" scoring system, which is essentially the same as Pope's and Boone's minus the inside spread credit.

I have to agree with Alan too. When someone talks about a certain deer they saw, or wants to field judge one, they all estimated it in accordance with Pope and Boone. It's really the standard that everyone knows.

[redkneck]

Heheee.... No Tominator, that was just a shot at my buddy Rhine16 about his little frownie face! I guess someone at Buckmasters spammed him quite a bit and ticked him off.

All is well. I printed out that P&Y sheet that Rhino sent me in the link. Going to print it out and try it, just so that I can speak from a more edjumacated point of view .

[fly]

Here's the link for B&C if interested. Again the systems are the same.

http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/bc_scoring_pdfs.asp?area=bgRecords

Just to let you all know the B&C entry fee is up to $40.00 now. Just sent off the check. Buckmasters is 20.00 (no check sent) and P&Y is 35.00 (check sent a couple months ago). I think it's a good idea to post the gross score, but it really doesn't matter if the net score doesn't make the minimum.

[redkneck]

Well, i got home and did a hasty measure. I came up with 127 gross with about 5" in deducts. Dont know if I did it all correctly, i'll sort that out on the next moose i kill . It was fun to go through the sheet though, learning the deduct process. I still havent studied it a lot, got too many things to work on ATM, like starting supper, lol. but thanks guys for your input.