slugshooter Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 In his State of the Union Address, President Bush said again that the Social Security system is headed for "bankruptcy," a term that could give the wrong idea. Actually, even if it goes "bankrupt" a few decades from now, the system would still be able to pay about three-quarters of the benefits now promised. Bush also made his proposed private Social Security accounts sound like a sure thing, which they are not. He said they "will" grow fast enough to provide a better return than the present system. History suggests that will be so, but nobody can predict what stock and bond markets will do in the future. Bush left out any mention of what workers would have to give up to get those private acounts -- a proportional reduction or offset in guaranteed Social Security retirement benefits. He also glossed over the fact that money in private accounts would be "owned" by workers only in a very limited sense -- under strict conditions which the President referred to as "guidelines." Many retirees, and possibly the vast majority, wouldn't be able to touch their Social Security nest egg directly, even after retirement, because the government would take some or all of it back and convert it to a stream of payments guaranteed for life. Click the link below for the full article: http://www.factcheck.org/article305m.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan well of course slugo, if you got your money tied up in a private account and you arnet paying into the SS system, guess what??? You dont have anything coming from that sacred cow...its in your hands!!! DUH!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan How does that statement even have anything to with that article, what they are saying is, even if you decide to use your Social Security money and invest it in the stock market or whatever is planned, it still isn't "yours" And the government can decide how, when and how much you get over the course of time. Sounds to me like it will be just like Social Security only on the pretense that your money might grow over time. It doesn't matter, Bush proposed it so you guys would be for it even if there was indisputable evidence that it would be the worst thing you could do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan But is that guaranteed, it says right there the government will control how you receive those benefits even if you choose the personal plan, who's to say the government won't decide to keep that money once you day and leave your family in the cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan Sluggo............. Calm down. "Fact" is, nothing's been put down on paper yet. The "hammering out" stage of the details really hasn't even begun. So nobody knows what this thing is going to look like when finished. Here's why I am tenatively in support of the "concept": It takes a measure of the government's control over my life and gives it back to me. Which is, by the way, where it belongs. It kinda hurts my feelings to have a bunch of "educated" politicians sitting around under the impression that I'm too dumb to be responsible for my own outcomes. I have established other savings plans on my own and am happy to report that I'm WAY better at getting a return for my investments than the government is. So I'd like to have back 100% of the money they steal from me every week so I could do better with it, too. I am perfectly willing to accept the fact that there is a risk involved. It's one I'd be willing to take on all by my dumb,uneducated self. I don't want the government's "guarantee" of security. I want the government the h*** out of my life!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan [ QUOTE ] Bush proposed it so you guys would be for it even if there was indisputable evidence that it would be the worst thing you could do. [/ QUOTE ] Dont hardly think so buddy. Recognize where the problem is coming from, try to fix it the best you can. Looks to me like his intentions are good. We will see what gets done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_218 Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan No matter what they do to the Social Security system, we're all still screwed. I listened to The Chuck Harder Show, on the internet, yesterday (first Hour) and he had an economist on that said President Bush's plan, along with many other plans out there, will not work. Our Enconomy is in such poor shape with trade deficits, individuals credit card debt now around $8,000 Average, and free trade taking away our ability to have a value added economy. Add to this fewer and fewer workers contributing to Social Security System. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan [ QUOTE ] Our Enconomy is in such poor shape with trade deficits, individuals credit card debt now around $8,000 Average, and free trade taking away our ability to have a value added economy. Add to this fewer and fewer workers contributing to Social Security System. [/ QUOTE ] Is that right??? Well, maybe we should all sit back with our thumbs in our rumps and let the gov't. run SS into the crapper and let them supervise our credit card spending, too. How is it that this Chuck Harder knows the plan won't work when the plan is not even a reality yet??? How does he know what it's going to look like upon completion?? Lemme guess..............he's a Democrat...........right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_218 Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Our Enconomy is in such poor shape with trade deficits, individuals credit card debt now around $8,000 Average, and free trade taking away our ability to have a value added economy. Add to this fewer and fewer workers contributing to Social Security System. [/ QUOTE ] Is that right??? Well, maybe we should all sit back with our thumbs in our rumps and let the gov't. run SS into the crapper and let them supervise our credit card spending, too. How is it that this Chuck Harder knows the plan won't work when the plan is not even a reality yet??? How does he know what it's going to look like upon completion?? Lemme guess..............he's a Democrat...........right?? [/ QUOTE ] No he (Chuck Harder) is not a Democrat. Here's his website if you want to check him out : www.chuckharder.com You can also listen to his broadcast at 1 pm CST or 2 pm Eastern Time. He has a lot of good articles on the economy you should explore his website! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan ." Actually, even if it goes "bankrupt" a few decades from now, the system would still be able to pay about three-quarters of the benefits now promised." OK...in other words,its like paying 3/4 of your bills when they come due!! SORRY, I want all of what I paid in, try that with the gas station next time you fill up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan Until the Government officials who are in control of deciding what MY Social Security retirement is going to be are on Social Security themselves and NOT the PORK they have dished out to themselves for their own retirement, then heck yes, I am going to be scared. At the least, I am going to be skeptical they can get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan Looks like the working class is headed down the crapper again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_218 Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan [ QUOTE ] Until the Government officials who are in control of deciding what MY Social Security retirement is going to be are on Social Security themselves and NOT the PORK they have dished out to themselves for their own retirement, then heck yes, I am going to be scared. At the least, I am going to be skeptical they can get it right. [/ QUOTE ] Not only do the Senators & Congressmen receive generious retirement benfits; we (the Taxpayers) foot the bill for their Health Care Insurance FOR LIFE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan sluggo, bush didn't say the ss system was heading for bankruptcy first. the dems have been saying it for over 30 years that i can remember. they simply didn't do anything about it. clinton said in '98 that it would be bankrupt in 20 years. any you're a history major???? Note to other readers: my daughter is a far right wing history professor, and a teacher. all is not lost to liberals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13littleones Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan The fact is: President Bush said he "open" to any ideas to fix the problem.....it's not set in ink yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan [ QUOTE ] sluggo, bush didn't say the ss system was heading for bankruptcy first. the dems have been saying it for over 30 years that i can remember. they simply didn't do anything about it. clinton said in '98 that it would be bankrupt in 20 years. any you're a history major???? Note to other readers: my daughter is a far right wing history professor, and a teacher. all is not lost to liberals! [/ QUOTE ] I don't know where you got history major from. First I have heard of anything being said about Social Security going broke is from Bush, of course, he likes to use "shock and awe" to get his message across. A good teacher doesn't enforce their political beliefs in the classroom anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan [ QUOTE ] First I have heard of anything being said about Social Security going broke is from Bush [/ QUOTE ] Afraid your wrong there buddy. I am only 35 and I have been hearing here and there that SS would go broke before I was old enough to retire since the time I started working over 20 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_218 Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan Anyone, under 50 years of age is going to have real problems with Social Security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan Ok, lets examine this… President Bush said again that the Social Security system is headed for "bankruptcy," In the 70’s, the social security program was found to be stable. In the 80’s the social security program was found to be stable after COLAs were increased to respond to minor inflation levels. In 1993, the amount of taxable benefits was increased to 85 percent on retirees. In 1996, a trustee’s report stated that the Social Security system would start to run deficits in 2012, and the trust funds would be exhausted by 2029. All members of the Advisory Panel agreed that some or all of Social Security's funds should be invested in the private sector. To keep the unchanged system actuarially sound, payroll taxes would have to be increased 50%, to 18% of payroll, or benefits would have to be slashed by 30%. 1997 - All members of the presidentially-appointed Social Security Advisory Panel agreed that some or all of Social Security's funds should be invested in the private sector. To keep the unchanged system actuarially sound, payroll taxes would have to be increased 50%, to 18% of payroll, or benefits would have to be slashed by 30%." 1999 - The Social Security Trustees' Report stated the Social Security Retirement System's unfunded liability increased by $752 billion since the 1998 Trustee Report was published. This brings the total long-term unfunded liability to more than $19 trillion. So if memory serves me correctly, it wasn’t President Bush that came up with the hair-brained idea of actually letting people be somewhat responsible for their future and retirement, it was an advisory panel appointed by Slick Willie. So what did ole Slick do with this advise? He did what every democrat would have done, he raised taxes. “three-quarters of the benefits promised” Ever ask someone that received social security if they could live on 75 percent of what they’re getting now? How about asking a few and see what they say, my guess is not only NO, but **** NO. nobody can predict what stock and bond markets will do in the future. First, the stock market is a gamble, anyone going into it needs to know this. But history also shows that the more money you pour into the stock market, the better it does. As for your last statement – what is different between this and a 401k? Nothing is different except the fact that you have more control over what you can do with it. What’s the big deal here folks, does it really piss the left off that some people actually want accountability and responsibility over their lives? Do you really hate those that have taken all the advantages this country offers and have actually done well for themselves? What exactly is your problem with this other than President Bush spoke about it and is in favor of it? Can you logically explain what bug you have up your **** about giving society a little more freedom to plan for their future? Are you afraid that your sorry asses are going to get left behind by those that go out and make more money when you’ve chosen not to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_218 Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan [ QUOTE ] nobody can predict what stock and bond markets will do in the future. First, the stock market is a gamble, anyone going into it needs to know this. But history also shows that the more money you pour into the stock market, the better it does. [/ QUOTE ] I think the stock market is going to remain basically "Flat" for the next forseeable future. You're right inthat today's stock market is a gamble & historcally it has come up, in the past. However, with the oil market's behavor, Trade imbalance, Dollar loosing value, and China & India both buying up more and more resources; I can't see much of a rise in our Stock Market in the near future. The S & P 500 Index funds are only yelding 3% on average in dividends per year, and with this I think the best place to park your money, for awhile would be in a Money Market account or a C.D. They might not pay very much but atleast they are going in the right direction, and they're insured up to $100,000. You could also invest in "I" Bonds which are adjusted for inflation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan I'm 46 years old and I'm planning to retire not later than 62. I would be willing to let the government keep every penny I've paid in to Social Security if they would just let me "opt out" of paying for the rest of my working years. I'm quite confident that I can take the same amount I would pay them, invest it myself, and retire with a better income than I will ever see from their plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_218 Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan [ QUOTE ] I'm 46 years old and I'm planning to retire not later than 62. I would be willing to let the government keep every penny I've paid in to Social Security if they would just let me "opt out" of paying for the rest of my working years. I'm quite confident that I can take the same amount I would pay them, invest it myself, and retire with a better income than I will ever see from their plan. [/ QUOTE ] A lot can happen, in 16 years. All I can say is plan for the worse and hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan As soon as I turned 62, I started to draw social security. The thing is, when I was working, I never figured to use social security as my sole source of retirement. If I had, I would be in deep doodo!!! Social Security is and always has been a "Supplement" to retirement. For those who will not or do not try to save up something other than social security, I cannot feel sorry for them. They have known their entire life that sooner or later they are going to hit the age where they won't be working. Everybody had better invest on their own. It doesn't make any difference how much it is, but you have to save something!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan Calm down Parrothead, if you have a problem with the post e-mail the non-partisan factcheck.com people, I didn't write it, all they do is clarify the spin that both parties put out regarding whatever is going on. I for one don't and won't put my money in the stock market, or a 401K, there is no guarantee on return but "historically" it has shown a good return, well, "historically" people lost everything and threw themselves out of windows when the stock market crashed 70 years ago. I would rather put my money in something that is guaranteed to gain interest ( CD's, I Bonds or EE Bonds) than put it in the stock market and hope everything goes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Re: Fact check on Social Security plan SS, you had better get a job that pays you MILLIONS because if you invest in those, you are really going to have a very skimpy retirement!! Good luck to you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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